American racing header primaries
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
American racing header primaries
Hi,
I was comparing the LGM headers (32" primaries) with the American Racing Headers. The LGM primaries look to be longer than the ARH. Does anyone know the length of the ARH primaries and the reason behind the length selected?
Thanks.
I was comparing the LGM headers (32" primaries) with the American Racing Headers. The LGM primaries look to be longer than the ARH. Does anyone know the length of the ARH primaries and the reason behind the length selected?
Thanks.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,762
Likes: 4
From: Chandler Arizona
Originally Posted by glueman
Hi,
I was comparing the LGM headers (32" primaries) with the American Racing Headers. The LGM primaries look to be longer than the ARH. Does anyone know the length of the ARH primaries and the reason behind the length selected?
Thanks.
I was comparing the LGM headers (32" primaries) with the American Racing Headers. The LGM primaries look to be longer than the ARH. Does anyone know the length of the ARH primaries and the reason behind the length selected?
Thanks.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
So Kooks uses 26" primaries? It would be interesting to find out if ARH use exactly the same.
My understanding is that you can select certain lengths of the primaries on 4-1 systems that coincide with the pressure waves to give maximum scavenging at different RPM. The longest are the 32" longtubes which I think would be ideal for racing applications where you are always at high RPM. I dont understand why they would make good street headers...
My understanding is that you can select certain lengths of the primaries on 4-1 systems that coincide with the pressure waves to give maximum scavenging at different RPM. The longest are the 32" longtubes which I think would be ideal for racing applications where you are always at high RPM. I dont understand why they would make good street headers...
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,089
Likes: 14
Originally Posted by glueman
So Kooks uses 26" primaries? It would be interesting to find out if ARH use exactly the same.
My understanding is that you can select certain lengths of the primaries on 4-1 systems that coincide with the pressure waves to give maximum scavenging at different RPM. The longest are the 32" longtubes which I think would be ideal for racing applications where you are always at high RPM. I dont understand why they would make good street headers...
My understanding is that you can select certain lengths of the primaries on 4-1 systems that coincide with the pressure waves to give maximum scavenging at different RPM. The longest are the 32" longtubes which I think would be ideal for racing applications where you are always at high RPM. I dont understand why they would make good street headers...
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by shopdog
The longer the pipes, the lower the torque peak RPM, ie maximum scavenging effect. So the LGs give you more midrange punch than Kooks. That's ideal for the road race course where you run at all sorts of speeds and RPMs. The shorter Kooks work best at the drag strip where they help boost peak hp RPM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,578
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From: Amityville 2010 & 2011 NMCA Late Model EFI Champions BEST Service & the BEST prices on the EastCoast
At 27" long the A.R. Headers are approximately 5-7" longer than Kook's and 5-12" shorter than LG's. If you measure you'll notice our tube length's are very close, (+/- 1").
Our intentions were to incorporate the merge collectors and get the X-pipe in-line with the collectors. It wasn't easy but the A.R. crew pulled it off and we tested it. Fact is we tested other configurations for them and their original design worked best. Other brands have been tested against our systems and in most cases they simply don't measure up in any catagory. Call other tuners who use A.R. Headers and they'll confirm.
Carmen
Our intentions were to incorporate the merge collectors and get the X-pipe in-line with the collectors. It wasn't easy but the A.R. crew pulled it off and we tested it. Fact is we tested other configurations for them and their original design worked best. Other brands have been tested against our systems and in most cases they simply don't measure up in any catagory. Call other tuners who use A.R. Headers and they'll confirm.
Carmen
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Brett Foote
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by TheVetteDoctors
At 27" long the A.R. Headers are approximately 5-7" longer than Kook's and 5-12" shorter than LG's. If you measure you'll notice our tube length's are very close, (+/- 1").
Our intentions were to incorporate the merge collectors and get the X-pipe in-line with the collectors. It wasn't easy but the A.R. crew pulled it off and we tested it. Fact is we tested other configurations for them and their original design worked best. Other brands have been tested against our systems and in most cases they simply don't measure up in any catagory. Call other tuners who use A.R. Headers and they'll confirm.
Carmen
Our intentions were to incorporate the merge collectors and get the X-pipe in-line with the collectors. It wasn't easy but the A.R. crew pulled it off and we tested it. Fact is we tested other configurations for them and their original design worked best. Other brands have been tested against our systems and in most cases they simply don't measure up in any catagory. Call other tuners who use A.R. Headers and they'll confirm.
Carmen
Any word on shipping C6 systems? I've had a set on order for over a month now through Horsepower Sales in Pompano.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by TheVetteDoctors
Other brands have been tested against our systems and in most cases they simply don't measure up in any catagory. Call other tuners who use A.R. Headers and they'll confirm.
Carmen
Carmen
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 573
From: Dallas Tx
St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Hi guys,
We have tested our design againse every brand out there. The results are that our headers make significantly more torque and hp up to about 5000 rpms, then they run even up to about 6500, with only a 1-2 hp loss above 6500 rpms to 7000. And that was on a modified engine. On a stock LS7 engine there is not really any power up where the short headers work.
Torque wins races, hp sells headers.
Thanks guys,
Lou Gigliotti
Sorry, this is a Z06 graph. C6 on the way.
Here is the C6 graph Over 50 rwtq gain from the start and the top hp is still as good as any.
We have tested our design againse every brand out there. The results are that our headers make significantly more torque and hp up to about 5000 rpms, then they run even up to about 6500, with only a 1-2 hp loss above 6500 rpms to 7000. And that was on a modified engine. On a stock LS7 engine there is not really any power up where the short headers work.
Torque wins races, hp sells headers.
Thanks guys,
Lou Gigliotti
Sorry, this is a Z06 graph. C6 on the way.
Here is the C6 graph Over 50 rwtq gain from the start and the top hp is still as good as any.
Last edited by LG Motorsports; Aug 1, 2006 at 02:24 AM.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by LG Motorsports
Hi guys,
We have tested our design againse every brand out there. The results are that our headers make significantly more torque and hp up to about 5000 rpms, then they run even up to about 6500, with only a 1-2 hp loss above 6500 rpms to 7000. And that was on a modified engine. On a stock LS7 engine there is not really any power up where the short headers work.
Torque wins races, hp sells headers.
Thanks guys,
Lou Gigliotti
Sorry, this is a Z06 graph. C6 on the way.
Here is the C6 graph Over 50 rwtq gain from the start and the top hp is still as good as any.
We have tested our design againse every brand out there. The results are that our headers make significantly more torque and hp up to about 5000 rpms, then they run even up to about 6500, with only a 1-2 hp loss above 6500 rpms to 7000. And that was on a modified engine. On a stock LS7 engine there is not really any power up where the short headers work.
Torque wins races, hp sells headers.
Thanks guys,
Lou Gigliotti
Sorry, this is a Z06 graph. C6 on the way.
Here is the C6 graph Over 50 rwtq gain from the start and the top hp is still as good as any.
Lou
This is not your post !!!!!! READ FORUM RULES STAY OUT OF OTHER TUNERS POST !!!!!! Anyone can put up fake dyno sheets 50 rwtq LOL
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 573
From: Dallas Tx
St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by MasterVette
Lou
This is not your post !!!!!! READ FORUM RULES STAY OUT OF OTHER TUNERS POST !!!!!! Anyone can put up fake dyno sheets 50 rwtq LOL
This is not your post !!!!!! READ FORUM RULES STAY OUT OF OTHER TUNERS POST !!!!!! Anyone can put up fake dyno sheets 50 rwtq LOL
We also don't put up "Fake" dyno sheets. Please speak for yourself. In fact our dealers have posted even higher numbers than we did.
I believe that the rules state that one must stay out of a post that a vendor starts.
thanks
Lou Gigliotti
LG Motorsports
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,762
Likes: 4
From: Chandler Arizona
If you want the most area under the curve, then buy the LG Pros. If you do not, then buy something else. Longer primaries, 1 3/4" primary tube diameter, and merge collectors. Sorry guys, Lou has it figured out.
The thing I don't understand is people who say the Kooks are better for drag racing and that the LG's are better for road racing. I agree the LG's are the best for road racing, but by definition that also makes them better for drag racing. It's still the area under the curve, even on a quarter mile. When I'm on the track, most of the time I shift to the next lower gear whenever I can. I run the engine in the same rpm range as it does on the 1/4 mile.
The thing I don't understand is people who say the Kooks are better for drag racing and that the LG's are better for road racing. I agree the LG's are the best for road racing, but by definition that also makes them better for drag racing. It's still the area under the curve, even on a quarter mile. When I'm on the track, most of the time I shift to the next lower gear whenever I can. I run the engine in the same rpm range as it does on the 1/4 mile.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by MasterVette
Louie
We also don't put up "Fake" dyno sheets. Please speak for yourself. In fact our dealers have posted even higher numbers than we did.
Ok what ever.
We also don't put up "Fake" dyno sheets. Please speak for yourself. In fact our dealers have posted even higher numbers than we did.
Ok what ever.
I see how the war posts start now. LG was mentioned in the first line of this thread and posted. It was totally correct of him to post. "We" ignored the requested information they were asked for which happened to be exactly the info LG volunteered but "we" chose to use their next post for an attack suggesting fraud on the part of another vendor. Real stand-up guys. Maybe you should have dug up some better performance numbers as requested.
Originally Posted by MasterVette
Lou
This is not your post !!!!!! READ FORUM RULES STAY OUT OF OTHER TUNERS POST !!!!!! Anyone can put up fake dyno sheets 50 rwtq LOL
This is not your post !!!!!! READ FORUM RULES STAY OUT OF OTHER TUNERS POST !!!!!! Anyone can put up fake dyno sheets 50 rwtq LOL
What was your purpose here? It wasn't to increase sales I hope.
Last edited by SpinMonster; Aug 2, 2006 at 03:25 AM.
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2006
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Spinmonster, The Vette Doctors crew, which I'm a part of, spend their time making horsepower and very satisfied customers. They have little time to post dyno sheets. Our customers usually do it anyway. Any tuner can come up with bogus claims of 50rwtq but Lou is the one that makes a living at it. He also makes a living telling everyone 
about his 32" long primaries when in reality only 4 tubes are even remotely close to that number and the rest are 40". You don't have to make living as a tuner to know that one header certainly won't work for every application but when you only have one header to sell you need to fool everyone into thinking that. The original poster wanted to know what the difference was in length with LG's, Kook's, and A.R. Headers. We gave him the correct answers and now there's a problem. I guess the truth hurts. Maybe someone should redesign their parts to better match what they claim they're selling.
about his 32" long primaries when in reality only 4 tubes are even remotely close to that number and the rest are 40". You don't have to make living as a tuner to know that one header certainly won't work for every application but when you only have one header to sell you need to fool everyone into thinking that. The original poster wanted to know what the difference was in length with LG's, Kook's, and A.R. Headers. We gave him the correct answers and now there's a problem. I guess the truth hurts. Maybe someone should redesign their parts to better match what they claim they're selling.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,762
Likes: 4
From: Chandler Arizona
Originally Posted by MR Lumpy
Spinmonster, The Vette Doctors crew, which I'm a part of, spend their time making horsepower and very satisfied customers. They have little time to post dyno sheets. Our customers usually do it anyway. Any tuner can come up with bogus claims of 50rwtq but Lou is the one that makes a living at it. He also makes a living telling everyone about his 32" long primaries when in reality only 4 tubes are even remotely close to that number and the rest are 40". You don't have to make living as a tuner to know that one header certainly won't work for every application but when you only have one header to sell you need to fool everyone into thinking that. The original poster wanted to know what the difference was in length with LG's, Kook's, and A.R. Headers. We gave him the correct answers and now there's a problem. I guess the truth hurts. Maybe someone should redesign their parts to better match what they claim they're selling.
about his 32" long primaries when in reality only 4 tubes are even remotely close to that number and the rest are 40". You don't have to make living as a tuner to know that one header certainly won't work for every application but when you only have one header to sell you need to fool everyone into thinking that. The original poster wanted to know what the difference was in length with LG's, Kook's, and A.R. Headers. We gave him the correct answers and now there's a problem. I guess the truth hurts. Maybe someone should redesign their parts to better match what they claim they're selling.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,253
Likes: 134
From: Short Hills, NJ
Originally Posted by MR Lumpy
Any tuner can come up with bogus claims of 50rwtq but Lou is the one that makes a living at it. He also makes a living telling everyone about his 32" long primaries when in reality only 4 tubes are even remotely close to that number and the rest are 40". You don't have to make living as a tuner to know that one header certainly won't work for every application but when you only have one header to sell you need to fool everyone into thinking that. The original poster wanted to know what the difference was in length with LG's, Kook's, and A.R. Headers. We gave him the correct answers and now there's a problem. I guess the truth hurts. Maybe someone should redesign their parts to better match what they claim they're selling.
about his 32" long primaries when in reality only 4 tubes are even remotely close to that number and the rest are 40". You don't have to make living as a tuner to know that one header certainly won't work for every application but when you only have one header to sell you need to fool everyone into thinking that. The original poster wanted to know what the difference was in length with LG's, Kook's, and A.R. Headers. We gave him the correct answers and now there's a problem. I guess the truth hurts. Maybe someone should redesign their parts to better match what they claim they're selling.Got a stock 346? No problem, 1 3/4" loooong tubes are the ticket.
Got a 436 stroker with a 300 shot? Hey we got these awesome 1 3/4" looong tubes that will do the trick.
Heads and cam 6.0L with a blower? Have a look at our 32" primary 1 3/4" headers, I think it's exactly what your application calls for.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by MR Lumpy
Spinmonster, The Vette Doctors crew, which I'm a part of, spend their time making horsepower and very satisfied customers. They have little time to post dyno sheets. Our customers usually do it anyway. Any tuner can come up with bogus claims of 50rwtq but Lou is the one that makes a living at it. He also makes a living telling everyone about his 32" long primaries when in reality only 4 tubes are even remotely close to that number and the rest are 40". You don't have to make living as a tuner to know that one header certainly won't work for every application but when you only have one header to sell you need to fool everyone into thinking that. The original poster wanted to know what the difference was in length with LG's, Kook's, and A.R. Headers. We gave him the correct answers and now there's a problem. I guess the truth hurts. Maybe someone should redesign their parts to better match what they claim they're selling.
about his 32" long primaries when in reality only 4 tubes are even remotely close to that number and the rest are 40". You don't have to make living as a tuner to know that one header certainly won't work for every application but when you only have one header to sell you need to fool everyone into thinking that. The original poster wanted to know what the difference was in length with LG's, Kook's, and A.R. Headers. We gave him the correct answers and now there's a problem. I guess the truth hurts. Maybe someone should redesign their parts to better match what they claim they're selling.If you had time again to post on this, you had time to post a graph or at least type what some of the peak numbers were that you have seen to back up the originla statement that they are as good as better than all the 'other headers'.
This isnt a vette doctors thread as it was started by a customer/forum member so maybe you should refrain from posting info if it isnt going to answer his questions or other legitimate related issues.
Accusations toward LG and other tuners/customers of his that have posted dyno graphs are unlikely to be fake due to statistically significant number of people not using Lou's dyno with similar gains. I find it ridiculous that you even suggest such a thing and not supply some proof. I find it even more childish that you take the time to make three foloow-up posts and not use the occaisions to post info on your headers even if it isnt a dyno sheet. If you work there, certainly you could have typed what the peak gains are rather than begin another childish war with LG. I did ask for the info long ago....here I'll repost it:
Originally Posted by SpinMonster
I have only seen two graphs. They were 375hp and the other was 376hp tuned without cats. Do you have a better example of a well tuned 6 speed with them that you can post a dyno graph of for the low TQ specifically? I would drop my kooks if they were better.