Okay... now I'm a nice guy and all, but you've continually posted your results in others posts and I don't really understand why.

Lets look at two combinations with ported intake manifolds side by side:

Your car: 2005 C6, Corsa Sport, Kooks LT Headers & X-Pipe, C6 Stinger CAI. Tuned & Ported Intake by Jeremy Formato. It made 388/rwhp and 380/rwtq


Let’s look at a comparable combo:

Owner: NeedaC6
Car: 2005 Corvette LS2 M6
Engine Details:
Stock heads and short block, NO CAM
GHL Catback Exhaust
LG pro headers
LPE CAI
LS2 Port Works intake manifold

Horsepower 392.9 SAE RWHP
Torque 394.4 SAE RWTQ

The way I see it your combo is not competitive with my comparable one, so I'm not sure why you're posting. It is fantastic that you made such gains from Mr. Formato a very accomplished tuner.

But gains aren't everything to consider. All cars start out in slightly different power levels on the dyno... its the final result of the combination that is important. The sum is greater than the change.

Now I appreciate that you got 15 and 15 from Mr. Formato, but I also expect that you would afford me and my clients the same courtesy that I afford Mr. Formato and his. That is the courtesy of not posting in his threads.

 

Cory does great work. Here is my dyno sheet as he mentioned my results in his post.

 

I agree. Some C6's with lower baseline hp will have higher gains after certain mods, but they all end up around the same. The mods bring the lower baseline car back to par.

 

My point exactly.

 

Only true test is one of Harris's intakes and one of Formato's and test each on the same car, dyno, on the same day and see who comes out on top. And this is presuming that all the intakes arel modified the same every time.

 

It would require an independent tuner, too.

 

Looks like I opened up a can of worms!

 

 

Thanks....I was looking for that!

 

CHarris,

I agree completely, my car put down 386rwhp and 378rwtq after AR longtubes, catted x-pipe, callaway CAI, home ported DIY intake manifold and a tune by Jeff at CAM in NC. I also found 3 other cars including the 15rwhp guy that posts in every thread and the comparables c6 M6`s w/ my similar mods and or catbacks were 382rwhp, 386rwhp,and 388rwhp respectively on dynojets such as myself and they all 3 had intakes ported by Jeremy F.

So what I have deduced is either I am a natural born porter..Lol..(never done it before now) or my tuner is really good.

Here is a link to my thread w/ pics on what i did to the intake and the dyno graph:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1518568

I do have a couple of questions that you may be able to confirm or deny. From what I`ve deduced, looking at a buddy`s intake and mine some intakes are better than others, some line up better where the lower half bonds to the upper in the runners and have fewer sharp edges. Is that what you normally see as well? If so that would mean lower stock dynoing cars would benifit more from the porting I would assume if the intake is the culprit.

Also my tuner and I beleive that the ported intake and my CAI requires a tune as it caused, (at least we assume so) my car to go dump fuel and pull timing till he tuned it. Started w/ an a/f of 11.0 to 1. He picked up 23rwhp by adjusting timing and the a/f to 12.7 to 1. Has that been your experience as well? Pig rich after porting until tuned?

Just trying to figure out how all this stuff works. I was going to let Formato port mine, but when I told him I didn`t want his tune also and was going to CAM for the tune, (I know Jeff and he`s tuned my low 11 second heads and cam LT1 for years now) he stopped returning my calls. So after seeing some pics, I proceeded to butcher mine.. Actually the runners came out really well. Inside the TB opening I imagine someone like yourself could get in a lot further to take more material out w/ better tools than a dremel attachment and files.

 

There is a certain amount of variation between stock intakes. I try very hard to put all to the same even level that leave my shop. I also open mine up a bit differently in such a way that should support heads a little better later on down the line (should the buyer decide to go that route).

There is also a variation in what every car puts down power wise based on all the tolerances in the whole package. Maybe one guys get heads from an early casting run when the tooling and molds were all still fresh. Maybe another guy gets heads that aren't quite as cleanly cast. The less claen ones may have a little more flash in the chamers and it pings more easily when timing is added. There would be a difference there. Same with intakes some just have edges that others don't have. Some are thicker in certain areas I've found that allow cutting a better radius here and there.

The factory tune is the best and worst at the same time. All cars get the same tune and it performs quite well across all cars. That is very a successful tune in my opinion. But it leave some cars doing more and some doing less. It would be far to labor intensive to dyno tune every single car that roles off the line to getting them better equalized. The cost would be astronomical for that! The point is that some cars respond better to the factory tune than others based on variances in tolerance. Every one is an individual and needs to be treated as such to maximize its particular package.

But theres a problem with fine tuning every thing to the edge of maximum output. Things tend to break if the line is crossed. So how do you know how far to go on tuning. Also, if you tune as a shop, how far do you go on a customers car? I'd wager most go about the same as far as safety of the tune in a customers car. About the same is + or -10 hp in my mind. It doesn't pay to make crazy horsepower but the customer car breaks and the tuner gets flayed on the internet for it. There's no money in that. So there will always be some variance in output but porting and aftermarket parts are able to offset that as much as reasonably acheivable.

As far as retuning for ported parts goes... it is always adviseable to tune a car in my opinion. Even if its stock. Especially if you have a couple of mods done. A car can go rich or lean. It varies! My CTS-v for example was all tuned in to be -5 or 6 on the L-trims. I descreened the MAF and expected to see a big fueling swing. It only made L-trims -2 or 3. I've never seen that happen ever but it happened in my own car. Every other MAF I ever descreened need MAF scaling to run well. We have expectations of what may happen when a mod is made but sometimes the details are actually different. Only way to be sure is too look. We haven't had an issue with any intakes bolted on but not tuned... but I suppose it is always possible. Sounds like yours did so it is possible. but the hassle is negated by the fact that most folks willing ot pull an intake intend to tune anyway. If it is lean it'll just pull a little timing so theres no danger no matter what.

As for the porting you did... you're on the right track but the finish uis terrible It clearly hasn't hurt you, though so why ness with it. Sure it might give up some power later with more mods... but we're scratching power out of the LS2 anyway.

 

Thanks for all the info man! I agree the porting I did inside the throttle body opening is very rough...Lol...I just couldn`t get in there very far w/ the tools I have. However, inside the runners its very close to what I`ve seen professionally done, smooth, no rough edges, it may look rough in the pics buts its very smooth, similar to what I`ve felt/seen in ported heads and to my understanding is where the main problem w/ these intakes is. See this thread of a Formato ported intake that a customer took the pics the runners are very similar to mine, although I think he took too much on the outside edges of the runner were it meets the head and I think airflow would hit the head opening and create turbulence unless the heads were also ported to match:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...ed+intake+pics

I also showed it to a friend who has done quite a bit of head and intake porting while I had it off and he said the runners looked very good, but the TB opening looked a little rough..Lol..

What did you use to get into there if you don`t mind me asking???

I figured w/ a bolt-on car I would do this myself and pick up some power, not as much as a pro would but I figured it would help. It seemed to do ok like you said, the three closest cars w/ my mods and Formato intakes, and 2 also had catbacks, my catback is stock and fell right into the middle of em.

Thanks for the info again!

 

Is this applicable to C6's? Always interested in squeezing out more power. Thanks.

 

Read my sig for mods.

 

Are you telling me I shouldn't be posting the results I got? I am just telling the other guys what results I got. If you don't like it, don't read it.Are you the owner of this forum? Yours is only 4/rwhp more, so what's the big deal.

 

i didn't know this was a marketing presentation.

 

comparing max dyno numbers from different dynos on different days = tuner newbies.. you cannot even compare the same dyno to dyno on the same day in california due to variation in ambient air temp so any and all attempts to compare the two are Plus plenty of westcoasters are running on 91 octane, which could easily be a 5whp difference.

 

he can't stand it since you are posting a supporting vendor great result vs his non supporting vendor not as great result...

last time i check this was a free country, free speech to everyone, including the non supporting vendor using this forum to make money. lol