I'm in the process of deciding on my 07. These are the non negotiables
-1LT ( aftermarket nav system, may special order the steering wheel controls, though)
- Z51
- daily driver

I write to have fact separated from fiction. Here's what I've been able to gather from a variety of sources ( to include this forum):

-A06 is as fast as an MN6 (0-60 and 1/4 mile)
-Z51's weigh 220lbs more than non Z51s
-Z51 is .1 sec faster 0-60

IF the above are true, how ? Doesn't the auto tranny rob RWHP ? That, combined with being heavier lead me to think an auto Z51 would be slower.

Can someone a bit smarter than myself shed some light on these myths/facts ? I may be clueless, but I do learn fast

 

A6 might be as quick as MN6. I don't know.

Z51 weighs more than base car but not nearly 220#.

Z51 has shorter gears than non Z51 and is probably
.1 seconds quicker 0-60mph.

 

There are other items on the Z51 package that come into play more on daily driving like the various coolers. It is a worthwhile package. I had in on my '05 and have ordered it on the '07

 

i raced a buddy who was tuned with corsa exhaust and had the z51 a6 and i have a stock z51 m6 and i hung with him till about 120 or so....i would def think that the manual has more power! auto loses more power convertn to the ground than manual

 

All other options/packages being equal, a Z51 car does NOT weigh 220 pounds more than a non Z51 car. It does weigh more and for that and other reasons (weight/load transfer, stiff suspension etc.) it can and will potentially be slower in a straight line than it's non Z51 counterparts, in the manual cars the trans gearing might make up for some/most of that though. In the automatics the Z51 offers no straight line acceleration benefits, if anything it actually hurts them.
A fully loaded 3LT Z51 convertible automatic could potentially weigh up to 160+ pounds more than a manual 1LT coupe with no other options.


That may be true but of course it only applies to the current manual trans cars, automatic Z51 cars are no quicker than the automatic non Z51 cars, if anything they will be slower all else (ie: option package, driver, fuel levels, air/track quality etc.) being equal.

 

Thanks for the replys gents, I'm learning a lot......
Does anyone know what RWHP a bone stock A06 has vs a MN6 ?
Would I even be able to tell ?
From what I'm gathering, the quickest combo would be a Z51 MN6....better mileage too.

 

The reason you are seeing some faster times for the A6 is that not everyone here is a professional race driver and the A6 can hide alot of driver inability.

 

The manuals dyno anywhere from 335rwhp to 358rwhp, automatics are anywhere from 325rwhp to 345rwhp give or take a few in either direction depending on the dyno/tire pressure, coolant temps etc.
No most can't really tell but some can, in all honesty even a manual dynoing 320rwhp could theoretically still feel faster than an automatic dynoing over 375, it's just the nature of the trans/clutch/power delivery.

 

ck rog LS1LT1, thx !
MN6 Z51 it shall be then. More horsepower, better mileage, cheaper price; can't see how I can go wrong ( 'cept that the fiancee won't drive stick- but that MAY also be an advantage )

Duly noted on the 'non pro racer' proficiency comment, C6400hp. I guess I'll simply need to get good.

 

Now you're thinking.

 

If the car is just for a 1/4 mile track, get the auto, all said and done you'll be more consistent. Now for a daily driver, maybe you'll want an auto, because in traffic every day, the stick can become a pain, but in any situation were traffic is not a problem, the stick is hands down a whole lot more fun....

I had an auto before this car, and I regretted the auto every single day, I couldn't be happier with the M6.

 

i agree 6sp is the way to go i love my 6sp z51

 

Manual 6 speed Z51, (MZ6 Z51 C6) only way to go.

Performance wise, that car is essentially a C5 Z06 with a removable top and 18/19 inch runflats on it.

 

Drive both manual and auto-get what you want (like). A tenth or two in the quarter is irrelevant.

 

You say you're going with the LT1 package and I respect your view regarding NAV system and steering controls.

Did you fully consider LT2? We opted for that primarily for the side airbags.

Our car is almost a daily "for fun" driver and people around here have a dangerous habit of running redlights. Don't want my wife or me messed up due to getting T-boned.

LT2 also has better seats and isn't too expensive.

Just wanted to make sure you've considered this .....

 

Good to see a fellow navy pilot with another Vette. I think it depends on what you want from the car. For my fun cars, I always go with the manual and from day one, wanted a C6 mn6, Z51 option. Easier I guess when you know from the start what you want.

 

Not quite.

0.43 seconds through the 1/4 is not essentially the same.

 

Those lists are all but meaningless for comparison purpses.

Until people start accurately measuring and listing their DAs, raceweights, etc, and until equal drivers, or the same driver, drives both cars, on the same day and/or conditions, at the same track, the results of those type lists for comparison purposes, are of very limited value. I have seen you point to this one list now on more than one occasion and someone needs to point that out.

Arguably, a series of runs should be made and averaged to get a more accurate comparison between two cars.

Indeed, there is a disclaimer at the top of the one list you reference which reads:

CORVETTEFORUM.COM C6 Corvette ET Rankings

"Times are received from all over the country and are not corrected. Because track and weather conditions vary, this list ranking does not, and can not, identify the fastest cars or drivers in any particular order. It only lists the recorded times, regardless of conditions, in order from quickest to slowest. In cases where ET is the same, the higher MPH determines list order."

As for that Z06 list, the one time up there posted by Vai came under intense scrutiny on this board and the Z06Vette board. (I can show you the links if you like) In fact some versions of that list don't even recognize it.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1549325 post #2.

Bottom line: If Jrod, Ranger, and Dr. Ron were driving manual C6s, under the same exact conditions that they posted their impressive C5 Z06 numbers, and with the same amount of practice, dialing in their techniqe as they spent on the C5 Z06 platform, I'd bet anything I own that the quickest manual C6 time you see recorded on that C6 list would be better than 12.2. Especially if they were running on the exact same non runflat tires found on the C5 Z06.

If you notice, there are very few people over the last 3-5 months who have been diligently running completely bone stock manual C6s with the sole purpose of running an abnormally quick time.

Indeed, the only person here who has put forth the effort, and had the discipline, and made the sacrifice, to get as much as possible from out of a completely bone stock C6 has been LS1LT1. And his car is an automatic. No manual C6 driver has made the effort that he did, it took him nearly a year of running bone stock to post up his 12.21. No manual C6 driver has spent anywhere close to year beating on his bone stock car trying to produce an exceptionally quick time.

No manual C6 driver on this board or anywhere else that I know of, has made the effort, and shown the tenacity,...... or arguably even has the talent, that the quickest C5 Z06 drivers, JRod, and Ranger, have, in attempting to post up the quickest bone stock C5 Z06 numbers ever. They didn't put up those guady numbers after just a couple of passes.

There are a handful of good drivers who have run manual C6s, Z51 and non Z51s, most notably, 06C6FVR, NineBall, CYA-Vet, Jschindler, but none has stayed bone stock long enough, and made enough attempts, (translated, beat on his bone stock car for long and hard enough under optimal conditions), to break 12 seconds.

Z06 Bone Stock and Stock CAI/DOT legal Tires

Ranger------1.64x 60'--11.52x @ 120.21-11/04-HT/BFG ('02) Run Video Time Slip
J-rod--------1.675 60'--11.596 @ 118.53--xx/xx--Zip Tie/ET ('02)
fergy flyer---1.67x 60'--11.5xx @ 118.xx--02/05--CAI/DR ('02)
J-Rod--------1.767 60'--11.606 @ 117.95--xx/xx--ZipTie ('02)
Dr Ron-------1.68x 60'--11.622 @ 119.03--10/04--VR/DR ('03) Run Video
eb02z06------1.671 60'-11.656 @ 117.75-10/02--VT ('02) Time Slip
Power Shifter-1.645 60'--11.659 @ 116.97--10/02--CAI/DR
Dr.Ron-------1.711 60'--11.67x @ 119.3x--10/03--VR ('03) Time Slip
BLU BY U ----1.65x 60'--11.694 @ 116.56--12/02--VR/BFG ('02)
Robert56-----1.653 60'--11.711 @ 115.53--06/05--VR/BFG ('02) Time Slip
Steve Row----1.66x 60'--11.756 @ 116.87--xx/xx-CAI/DR
Vai------------1.xxx 60'--11.781 @ xxx.xx--xx/xx---Bone Stock
J-Rod --------1.818 60'--11.783 @ 116.90--xx/xx--Bone Stock ('02)
Ranger -------1.78x 60'--11.818 @ 117.26--xx/xx--Bone Stock ('02) Time Slip
Butcher-------1.77x 60'--11.82x @ 118.8x--10/01--HT ('02)
427CPE-------1.668 60'--11.850 @ 116.42--06/05--DR ('02)
mike c.--------1.7xx 60'--11.88x @ 118.xx--10/05--ET
L98Terror-----1.702 60'--11.930 @ 113.98--10/05--VR/DR ('03)
zular----------1.xxx 60'--11.93x @ 116.90--xx/xx--CAI
Esoteric-------1.xxx 60'--11.93x @ 119.xx--xx/xx---Bone Stock
dr.juice-------1.675 60'--11.942 @ 114.78--07/05--ET's ('03)
phantasms----1.xxx 60'--11.945 @ 117.71--xx/xx--ZipTie Mod
Ranger--------1.823 60'--11.947 @ 116.65--12/01--CAI/DR ('01) Time Slip
Z06addikt-----1.xxx 60'--11.949 @ 117.61--xx/xx--CAI/DR
Cyric----------1.747 60'--11.966 @ 116.81--10/05--CAI/DR ('03)
GMHTP--------1.90x 60'--11.97x @ 118.80--03/04--Bone Stock ('04)
BlueZ06-------1.74x 60'--11.97x @ 117.97--xx/xx--CAI/DR ('03)
COUTO1981---1.74x 60'--11.97x @ 117.97--xx/xx--DR ('03)
02 Z06 Racer -1.xxx 60'--11.99x @ 117.61--xx/xx--Bone Stock ('02)

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1132866

The bona fide, completely bone stock, sub 12 second times are by JRod, Ranger, Esoteric, GMHTP, and 02 Z06 Racer. Of that 5, one was actually run by professionals, and while JRod and Ranger may not make their livings racing, they certainly have professional level skills.

Find me one MZ6 C6 driver who has both the skills of the above crowd, and also stuck with it in bone stock trim for long enough to break 12 seconds. Let them spend the time to dial in their technique on a manual C6 under optimum conditions and on C5 Z06 rear tires, and that .43 seconds you talk about goes out the window.

Chevy lists a 2 tenths gap in the quarter between the C5 Z06 and the Z51 manual C6. 12.4 vs 12.6. Presumably thats what they found using their drivers over a series of runs in both cars. Indeed if you beat the hell out of either car for long enough, and hard enough, one can beat their times by a sight.

2 tenths difference. I would expect less than that with the same tire on the C6.

 

You're right, but we learned a new word today: rationalization.
(j givin you a bad time, DSOM )

BTW, these are the times & speeds advertised for the C6 by GM:

Quarter mile times and speeds quoted by GM.
Z06, 6-spd manual, 11.7 sec @ 125 mph
6-spd manual w Z51 12.5 sec @ 115 mph
6-spd manual w/o Z51 12.6 sec @ 115 mph
4-spd auto tranny w Z51 12.9 sec @ 110 mph
4-spd auto tranny w/o Z51 13.0 sec @ 110 mph

Zero to 60 mph times quoted by GM.
Z06, 6-spd manual, 3.7 sec
6-spd manual w Z51 4.1 sec
6-spd manual w/o Z51 4.3 sec
4-spd auto tranny w Z51 4.5 sec
4-spd auto tranny w/o Z51 4.6 sec

 

Thanks for the clarification. And for the C5 Z06 I do believe that the official chevy numbers were 12.4 in the quarter.

believe that it was Ranger who pointed out that it would take several passes to beat the GM numbers. I seem to recall that he said somewhere around 50 passes, though I could be wrong.

I know of no one here claiming 50 passes or more in a completely bone stock manual C6, running with the specific intent of honing their skills on a given platform, to a sharp edge as Ranger does.

In other words, he seems not to just make passes for the sake of making passes. When he makes them it seems to be with the specific intent of seeking perfection and an unusually quick time. Ranger even practices without his car running.

Show me a manual Z51 (or non Z51) C6 driver willing to go to that end and I will show you a best time better than 12.2. Probably closer to 12 flat or even 11.9X.

Same with LS1LT1. If you follow his posts, you can see that he was making a deliberate attempt to set a bone stock record and will run as many times as necessary to do it.

I know of no base manual C6 driver who drives like that or who has attempted that.

Most guys here, simply run..................and then mod. Not stick with it and hammer away at it bone stock to produce an abnormally quick time.