headers, headers, headers!!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,939
Likes: 0
From: North Carolina
headers, headers, headers!!
I have read many threads about all the different headers, brands, etc. Well, what distinguishes one long tube header from the next? What makes one "better?" Why would one make more hp than the other? 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,838
Likes: 1
From: Valencia '32 Ford 3 window with 615 HP!!!!
St. Jude Donor '06-'09
I think it's just a matter of personal choice!!
I have American Racing headers and LOVE 'EM!!Others have some different brands and love Theirs as well!!
Good luck
I have American Racing headers and LOVE 'EM!!Others have some different brands and love Theirs as well!!
Good luck
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 18,722
Likes: 708
From: Bergen County, NJ
Not to the average street driver.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 3
From: Goleta California
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,922
Likes: 4
From: Cheektowaga NY
St. Jude Donor '08
Just from what i have read,the top 3 are Lgs,Kooks,and American Racing. There are two different sizes 1 3/4 for mild mods like cold air induction,exhaust or just stock,and 1 7/8 for heads,cam and supercharger applications. This is from what i have read.Good luck with your choice and there is plenty of posts on this subject,just do a search.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,939
Likes: 0
From: North Carolina
I wasn't slamming you, but this will turn into another ARH vs Kooks vs LG's pissing contest. They are all fine products. What makes them different, depends on the tube length, collectors etc. If you want an answer you should do some research on header design, exhaust flow etc. There was an interesting show on the speed channel a while back on header design you might be able to see a rerun of it sometime.
Thanks. I would love to see a show on them. I will look for it. I have read and re-read threads and still don't understand all the nuances. Thanks again for the info on the show.
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Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,560
Likes: 3
From: FNDA Beach Florida
More threads than Jklarkpimp on Headers
There are more threads and post in here than Jklarkpimp ever thought of posting on the different ones. LG, Kooks, Melrose, Dynamax, coated or not, customer service or lack of, item quality of lack of, missing parts and you name it. I did my own research and decided what I wanted and ordered it. No issues what so ever.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
In simple terms, the length of the primaries play a role in determining at what point in the RPM range the power is made.
The longer primaries of the LGMs are said to allow them to make significant power in the lower RPM ranges and increased torque throughout the RPM range. They tout power under the curve.
If you look at a dyno sheet from a car with LGMs headers on it, you will typically see increased torque values across the entire RPM range and a bit more space between the torque curve and the HP curve. The torque ranges in the lower RPMs 2500 to say 4500 though are very impressive. They claim to do this without sacrificing very much power at the higher RPMs.
This is a bonus if you are road racing and taking curves and coming out of curves and such. Situations where the car is at a wide variety of throttle positions, and hence RPM ranges. Though some say that cars which make more power under the curve are good for drag racing as well.
The KOOKS have equal length primaries and are shorter than the LGMs. The KOOKS are sometimes referred to as "mid length" as opposed to "long tube" headers.
KOOKS makes a great product. I had them on my C5. The KOOKS make great power up top in the higher RPMs. Some of the quickest cars on the strip are running KOOKS. But those cars live at 5500 RPM and up.
A lot of what you choose is going to depend on how you want to set the car up.
For example, with my C5 which was an A4, I did not want to sacrifice drivability, did not want the car to be too loose, so I went with a lower stall converter than I could have. A 2400 with a high STR. This gave me my hole shot and torque up to about 660ft.
From there the Vararam and the KOOKS took over to give me my top end.
That car was set up for drag racing to produce very low 12s and maintain drivability. I had no desire at that time to go into the engine. Were I looking to do HPDEs or autcross, I would have set it up differently and hence chosen a different header.
Material is also going to make a difference. Mild Steel vs 304 Stainless steel. 304 stainless is more corrosion resistant and typically does not require coating to minimize excessive underhood heat. Mild steel is more corrosion susceptable and is sometimes coated to minimize corrosion and excessive heat.
BTW, someone mentioned another "ARH vs Kooks vs LG's pissing contest". I can remember when it used to be a "Dynatech vs Kooks vs LG's pissing contest" and Dynatechs were the "flavor of the month". The two constants out there seem to be KOOKS and LGMs if that tells you anything.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Jan 20, 2007 at 01:34 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,939
Likes: 0
From: North Carolina
It depends on where in the RPM ranges the power is being made, and where you want it to be made. If you are talking peak power, which is typically made at high RPMs, they are all about the same. Usually within a few HP of one another.
In simple terms, the length of the primaries play a role in determining at what point in the RPM range the power is made.
The longer primaries of the LGMs are said to allow them to make significant power in the lower RPM ranges and increased torque throughout the RPM range. They tout power under the curve.
If you look at a dyno sheet from a car with LGMs headers on it, you will typically see increased torque values across the entire RPM range and a bit more space between the torque curve and the HP curve. The torque ranges in the lower RPMs 2500 to say 4500 though are very impressive. They claim to do this with sacrificing very much power at the higher RPMs.
This is a bonus if you are road racing and taking curves and coming out of curves and such. Situations where the car is at a wide variety of throttle positions, and hence RPM ranges. Though some say that cars which make more power under the curve are good for drag racing as well.
The KOOKS have equal length primaries and are shorter than the LGMs. The KOOKS are sometimes referred to as "mid length" as opposed to "long tube" headers.
KOOKS makes a great product. I had them on my C5. The KOOKS make great power up top in the higher RPMs. Some of the quickest cars on the strip are running KOOKS. But those cars live at 5500 RPM and up.
A lot of what you choose is going to depend on how you want to set the car up.
For example, with my C5 which was an A4, I did not want to sacrifice drivability, did not want the car to be too loose, so I went with a lower stall converter than I could have. A 2400 with a high STR. This gave me my hole shot and torque up to about 660ft.
From there the Vararam and the KOOKS took over to give me my top end.
That car was set up for drag racing to produce very low 12s and maintain drivability. I had no desire at that time to go into the engine. Were I looking to do HPDEs or autcross, I would have set it up differently and hence chosen a different header.
Material is also going to make a difference. Mild Steel vs 304 Stainless steel. 304 stainless is more corrosion resistant and typically does not require coating to minimize excessive underhood heat. Mild steel is more corrosion susceptable and is sometimes coated to minimize corrosion and excessive heat.
BTW, someone mentioned another "ARH vs Kooks vs LG's pissing contest". I can remember when it used to be a "Dynatech vs Kooks vs LG's pissing contest" and Dynatechs were the "flavor of the month". The two constants out there seem to be KOOKS and LGMs if that tells you anything.
In simple terms, the length of the primaries play a role in determining at what point in the RPM range the power is made.
The longer primaries of the LGMs are said to allow them to make significant power in the lower RPM ranges and increased torque throughout the RPM range. They tout power under the curve.
If you look at a dyno sheet from a car with LGMs headers on it, you will typically see increased torque values across the entire RPM range and a bit more space between the torque curve and the HP curve. The torque ranges in the lower RPMs 2500 to say 4500 though are very impressive. They claim to do this with sacrificing very much power at the higher RPMs.
This is a bonus if you are road racing and taking curves and coming out of curves and such. Situations where the car is at a wide variety of throttle positions, and hence RPM ranges. Though some say that cars which make more power under the curve are good for drag racing as well.
The KOOKS have equal length primaries and are shorter than the LGMs. The KOOKS are sometimes referred to as "mid length" as opposed to "long tube" headers.
KOOKS makes a great product. I had them on my C5. The KOOKS make great power up top in the higher RPMs. Some of the quickest cars on the strip are running KOOKS. But those cars live at 5500 RPM and up.
A lot of what you choose is going to depend on how you want to set the car up.
For example, with my C5 which was an A4, I did not want to sacrifice drivability, did not want the car to be too loose, so I went with a lower stall converter than I could have. A 2400 with a high STR. This gave me my hole shot and torque up to about 660ft.
From there the Vararam and the KOOKS took over to give me my top end.
That car was set up for drag racing to produce very low 12s and maintain drivability. I had no desire at that time to go into the engine. Were I looking to do HPDEs or autcross, I would have set it up differently and hence chosen a different header.
Material is also going to make a difference. Mild Steel vs 304 Stainless steel. 304 stainless is more corrosion resistant and typically does not require coating to minimize excessive underhood heat. Mild steel is more corrosion susceptable and is sometimes coated to minimize corrosion and excessive heat.
BTW, someone mentioned another "ARH vs Kooks vs LG's pissing contest". I can remember when it used to be a "Dynatech vs Kooks vs LG's pissing contest" and Dynatechs were the "flavor of the month". The two constants out there seem to be KOOKS and LGMs if that tells you anything.
This is the kind of description I was looking for. I have tried to understand what all the "arguments" have been about. Thanks.
CF Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 23,313
Likes: 25
From: Tucson Arizona
DSOM 51 posted good information. Quality of materials and construction are important considerations with some brands. Price may be a consideration for many people but be careful...sometimes you get what you pay for. IMO the 'top' brands are all excellent products but I give the edge to LGM. I'm extremely pleased with my LGM long tubes.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 609
Likes: 10
From: Hudson OH
another vote for LGM Pro Long Tubes here.
-Longer primaries = more torque, more power under curve, more USEABLE power band
-True merge collector = nice "hp plateu"
-304 stainless = tough, corrosion resistant, no need to be coated
-you get what you pay for = great customer service throughout
I'd recommend the LGM Pro's to anyone. If you wanted a cheaper header, without the merge collector, the LGM Street series fit the bill nicely.
I would say the Pro's are the best mod for the money out there. They really turn the car loose and make it fun to drive.
-Longer primaries = more torque, more power under curve, more USEABLE power band
-True merge collector = nice "hp plateu"
-304 stainless = tough, corrosion resistant, no need to be coated
-you get what you pay for = great customer service throughout
I'd recommend the LGM Pro's to anyone. If you wanted a cheaper header, without the merge collector, the LGM Street series fit the bill nicely.
I would say the Pro's are the best mod for the money out there. They really turn the car loose and make it fun to drive.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,713
Likes: 0
From: Littleton CO
It depends on where in the RPM ranges the power is being made, and where you want it to be made. If you are talking peak power, which is typically made at high RPMs, they are all about the same. Usually within a few HP of one another.
In simple terms, the length of the primaries play a role in determining at what point in the RPM range the power is made.
The longer primaries of the LGMs are said to allow them to make significant power in the lower RPM ranges and increased torque throughout the RPM range. They tout power under the curve.
If you look at a dyno sheet from a car with LGMs headers on it, you will typically see increased torque values across the entire RPM range and a bit more space between the torque curve and the HP curve. The torque ranges in the lower RPMs 2500 to say 4500 though are very impressive. They claim to do this with sacrificing very much power at the higher RPMs.
This is a bonus if you are road racing and taking curves and coming out of curves and such. Situations where the car is at a wide variety of throttle positions, and hence RPM ranges. Though some say that cars which make more power under the curve are good for drag racing as well.
The KOOKS have equal length primaries and are shorter than the LGMs. The KOOKS are sometimes referred to as "mid length" as opposed to "long tube" headers.
KOOKS makes a great product. I had them on my C5. The KOOKS make great power up top in the higher RPMs. Some of the quickest cars on the strip are running KOOKS. But those cars live at 5500 RPM and up.
A lot of what you choose is going to depend on how you want to set the car up.
For example, with my C5 which was an A4, I did not want to sacrifice drivability, did not want the car to be too loose, so I went with a lower stall converter than I could have. A 2400 with a high STR. This gave me my hole shot and torque up to about 660ft.
From there the Vararam and the KOOKS took over to give me my top end.
That car was set up for drag racing to produce very low 12s and maintain drivability. I had no desire at that time to go into the engine. Were I looking to do HPDEs or autcross, I would have set it up differently and hence chosen a different header.
Material is also going to make a difference. Mild Steel vs 304 Stainless steel. 304 stainless is more corrosion resistant and typically does not require coating to minimize excessive underhood heat. Mild steel is more corrosion susceptable and is sometimes coated to minimize corrosion and excessive heat.
BTW, someone mentioned another "ARH vs Kooks vs LG's pissing contest". I can remember when it used to be a "Dynatech vs Kooks vs LG's pissing contest" and Dynatechs were the "flavor of the month". The two constants out there seem to be KOOKS and LGMs if that tells you anything.
In simple terms, the length of the primaries play a role in determining at what point in the RPM range the power is made.
The longer primaries of the LGMs are said to allow them to make significant power in the lower RPM ranges and increased torque throughout the RPM range. They tout power under the curve.
If you look at a dyno sheet from a car with LGMs headers on it, you will typically see increased torque values across the entire RPM range and a bit more space between the torque curve and the HP curve. The torque ranges in the lower RPMs 2500 to say 4500 though are very impressive. They claim to do this with sacrificing very much power at the higher RPMs.
This is a bonus if you are road racing and taking curves and coming out of curves and such. Situations where the car is at a wide variety of throttle positions, and hence RPM ranges. Though some say that cars which make more power under the curve are good for drag racing as well.
The KOOKS have equal length primaries and are shorter than the LGMs. The KOOKS are sometimes referred to as "mid length" as opposed to "long tube" headers.
KOOKS makes a great product. I had them on my C5. The KOOKS make great power up top in the higher RPMs. Some of the quickest cars on the strip are running KOOKS. But those cars live at 5500 RPM and up.
A lot of what you choose is going to depend on how you want to set the car up.
For example, with my C5 which was an A4, I did not want to sacrifice drivability, did not want the car to be too loose, so I went with a lower stall converter than I could have. A 2400 with a high STR. This gave me my hole shot and torque up to about 660ft.
From there the Vararam and the KOOKS took over to give me my top end.
That car was set up for drag racing to produce very low 12s and maintain drivability. I had no desire at that time to go into the engine. Were I looking to do HPDEs or autcross, I would have set it up differently and hence chosen a different header.
Material is also going to make a difference. Mild Steel vs 304 Stainless steel. 304 stainless is more corrosion resistant and typically does not require coating to minimize excessive underhood heat. Mild steel is more corrosion susceptable and is sometimes coated to minimize corrosion and excessive heat.
BTW, someone mentioned another "ARH vs Kooks vs LG's pissing contest". I can remember when it used to be a "Dynatech vs Kooks vs LG's pissing contest" and Dynatechs were the "flavor of the month". The two constants out there seem to be KOOKS and LGMs if that tells you anything.
Good info thanks
As far as LG Streets I can't seem to find them on LG's website. Only for the C5 anyways. None for the C6
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,560
Likes: 3
From: FNDA Beach Florida
mild steel
The mild steel worry is no worry. I have Hooker mild steel coated headers on my 67GT going on well over 10 years (been so long I really forget when I did it but over 10) with no issues and they always look good and get rid of heat quicker than SS or non coated Headers. To each his own. It was said it is between LG and Kooks. That's 
there are at least 4 out there. Are you going to road race and be a champion for money and all the glory? If so, that may narrow it some but that meniscule amount of TQ/HP throughout the range doubtfully will be noticed and quality of a product from sale, install, warranty, service in all aspects should be the key. My non LG or Kook make just as much HP as any other C6/A4 I have seen posted in here. This thread will go on for weeks just like the last ones so I recommend saving yourself time and do a search for that thread and you will get an earfull and then some about headers. 
there are at least 4 out there. Are you going to road race and be a champion for money and all the glory? If so, that may narrow it some but that meniscule amount of TQ/HP throughout the range doubtfully will be noticed and quality of a product from sale, install, warranty, service in all aspects should be the key. My non LG or Kook make just as much HP as any other C6/A4 I have seen posted in here. This thread will go on for weeks just like the last ones so I recommend saving yourself time and do a search for that thread and you will get an earfull and then some about headers.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 0
From: NorCal
This is pretty much like, I read a lot about Ford and Chevy, which one should I buy????
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
The mild steel worry is no worry. I have Hooker mild steel coated headers on my 67GT going on well over 10 years (been so long I really forget when I did it but over 10) with no issues and they always look good and get rid of heat quicker than SS or non coated Headers. To each his own. It was said it is between LG and Kooks. That's there are at least 4 out there. Are you going to road race and be a champion for money and all the glory? If so, that may narrow it some but that meniscule amount of TQ/HP throughout the range doubtfully will be noticed and quality of a product from sale, install, warranty, service in all aspects should be the key. My non LG or Kook make just as much HP as any other C6/A4 I have seen posted in here. This thread will go on for weeks just like the last ones so I recommend saving yourself time and do a search for that thread and you will get an earfull and then some about headers.
there are at least 4 out there. Are you going to road race and be a champion for money and all the glory? If so, that may narrow it some but that meniscule amount of TQ/HP throughout the range doubtfully will be noticed and quality of a product from sale, install, warranty, service in all aspects should be the key. My non LG or Kook make just as much HP as any other C6/A4 I have seen posted in here. This thread will go on for weeks just like the last ones so I recommend saving yourself time and do a search for that thread and you will get an earfull and then some about headers. 
with you in that if one is just looking for peak power, its hard to go wrong with any of the quality made headers out there.BTW I amended my post above to read " They claim to do this without sacrificing very much power at the higher RPMs." Those of you who quoted my above post, please make a mental note of my correction.
But yes, I agree. If you are looking for peak power numbers, they are all going to be very close. Its that lower RPM range that intrigues me personally, and why I am this close (hold your thumb and index finger about a half inch apart) on pulling the trigger on the LGMs).
Increases in low end torque without a lot of sacrifice in top end power. Thats enticing. The LS2 already makes a lot of torque down low. The LG Pros should only improve that.
But a few other things come into consideration with header selection.
1. Product Support. This is huge. KOOKS and LGM are second to none. I know of KOOKS support first hand, and it was excellent. And at LGM, Lou seems to support his customers very well also. Someone set their car on fire with an early set of Dynatechs. Headers were too close to a clutch line. I don't know how much support they got later.
2. Materials we already mentioned.
3. Ease of installation.
4. How low they hang.
5. How well they seal. Any leaks??
6. How well they fit underneath the car and line up with existing brackets.
7. How neat are the welds?
There are other considerations as well, including price, application, metal substrate cats vs ceramic substrate cats which may also make a difference in one's selection.
I am torn between the LGMs and the KOOKS presently. I know what the KOOKS will do, but I am not into drag racing anymore.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Jan 20, 2007 at 01:58 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,430
Likes: 81
From: Whidbey Island WA
with you in that if one is just looking for peak power, its hard to go wrong with any of the quality made headers out there.BTW I amended my post above to read " They claim to do this without sacrificing very much power at the higher RPMs." Those of you who quoted my above post, please make a mental note of my correction.
But yes, I agree. If you are looking for peak power numbers, they are all going to be very close. Its that lower RPM range that intrigues me personally, and why I am this close (hold your thumb and index finger about a half inch apart) on pulling the trigger on the LGMs).
Increases in low end torque without a lot of sacrifice in top end power. Thats enticing. The LS2 already makes a lot of torque down low. The LG Pros should only improve that.
But a few other things come into consideration with header selection.
1. Product Support. This is huge. KOOKS and LGM are second to none. I know of KOOKS support first hand, and it was excellent. And at LGM, Lou seems to support his customers very well also. Someone set their car on fire with an early set of Dynatechs. Headers were too close to a clutch line. I don't know how much support they got later.
2. Materials we already mentioned.
3. Ease of installation.
4. How low they hang.
5. How well they seal. Any leaks??
6. How well they fit underneath the car and line up with existing brackets.
7. How neat are the welds?
There are other considerations as well, including price, application, metal substrate cats vs ceramic substrate cats which may also make a difference in one's selection.
I am torn between the LGMs and the KOOKS presently. I know what the KOOKS will do, but I am not into drag racing anymore.
Truth be told the name brand units are all good. I would have got the Kooks from TByrne if it wasnt for the fact that there was a juicy GP from A&A on the ARH units at the time I was looking to purchase. Were it me I would look at DSOMs list of "other considerations" and make them my primary considerations along with price.
Take the money you save and buy some booze. At least you will get some SOTP out of that.
BTW, The Dynotechs started two on fire and one guy caught it while it was still just smoldering. My understanding is they now include a clip to pull the clutch line out of the way.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 690
Likes: 0
From: VA
Good to hear from you my friend. Thought you were out on the high seas.
Too bad about the Hawks, thought this was their year. Oh, well, we're still looking for a coach and if they wanted Grim, they would have given him the job already, so what does that tell you?
good to hear about the ARHs, never even considered them. But if you got the results you say that you got, I will have to give them a look. Have you gotten any codes and are your rear 02s still enabled?
Too bad about the Hawks, thought this was their year. Oh, well, we're still looking for a coach and if they wanted Grim, they would have given him the job already, so what does that tell you?
good to hear about the ARHs, never even considered them. But if you got the results you say that you got, I will have to give them a look. Have you gotten any codes and are your rear 02s still enabled?