I need some advice for my LS2.

Considering new heads. Which is best if I am going to:

Keep my stock intake
224/228 cam, 560 lift.
Leave throttle body alone.

Thinking either AFR 205, Edelbrock 215's or Trickflow 225. Or is the 225too large for my block and intake?

If I am staying so mild on the cam, should I just keep my stock heads and change out the springs and pushrods?

 

Member on the fourm called GotJuice over in the C5 side who in addition to building up LS1 and 2's is a GM mechanic. I got one of his builds. Guy knows his _hit. PM'em.

 

why do you want to keep your stock intake?

 

Here is my not-so-informed thinking on this. Any cam change would require better springs which are reasonably cheap. Most of the heads you mention come with springs that are good for over 600 lift. So if you do a cam, I'd get as close to 600 lift as possible and go more mild on the duration and LSA to ensure smog. Also, more LSA, i think, equals more torque.

I would also do H*C together, so the shop (Sean I assume) can mill the head to optimize the DCR, which is determined by the cam. Sean is a big fan of the AFR because he talks to Tony Mamo all the time and Tony knows some of the better combos out there. If you are less worried about smog, the hot Mamo setup seems to be one of the 224/228 cams, a ported FAST, and his 205 heads.

Spoke with Sean yesterday on a similar topic, and he was going to ask Tony what he thought about going to a 225 head. Remember that bigger ports make great HP#s, but smaller ports give you the greater velocity which makes torque and power under the curve. You have to ask yourself: how will I drive the car and what are my goals. Do I want a big power number, or torque and drivability. etc etc.

Others will chime in I'm sure, and I'm curious to hear about the other heads. I know Andy (A&A) likes the Edelbrocks and Al (LAPD) likes the TFS. There is also ETP, but that one is a more complicated install.

 

SO, can anyone explain to me what the diff is to a 205,215 and 225?

What is a 'runner' and what does cc have to do with anything?

Sorry to be a total lame, just tryin to understand all this.

 

It is the volume, in cc's of the runner/port. The bigger the port, more air it flows, all things being equal (like a bigger pipe). However (1) the quality of the porting makes a big difference in flow; (2) bigger ports also flow less quickly, and high port velocity is the key to torque. Therefore, you want to get the smallest port possible that will flow enough volume to achieve your horsepower objective on the top end. For example, the AFR205 flows 15% more air than the stock LS6 head even though the LS6 has a 210cc port against the AFR 205cc port. That is because the AFR head is CNC ported and shaped and there is a lot of artwork that goes into that. The bonus is that, because the 205 port is smaller, it also produces more torque than the stock head. So you get the best of all: more HP and more torque. At some point though, a port is just too small: no matter how well the AFR205 head flows, it is not big enough for a 400ci engine. So then you move up in port size to a 225.

 

could not have said it better myself

 

Great explanation!

I think I learned something from this thread!

Thanks!

 

Ed, what are you going to do at smog check time? You might have to get a part time job at Lowe's so you can afford to replace it all back to stock.

 

Very nice.

So, then why are builders like Charlie at A&A using the edelbrock 215 on a stock bottom end and some are using a 225 as well?

I will go so far as to speculate that "flow" is a venturie effect, meaning the smaller port creates a "acceleration" of air velocity, similar to high pressure over a wing's surface.

But, if so, then why are the 225's doing so well on stock blocks?

 

The afr 205's sport a carb #,so they are legal here

No Lowes

 

Glad to help. This of course gets a whole lot more complex, especially when you talk about cams. There are others on here who are much more knowledgeable than I am and hopefully they will add something. Also, the AFR heads outflow the stockers by a good bit more that 15%...more like 25%, and they blow the stockers away in mid-lift flow.

 

Thanks TT. So, what do you think about the Trickflow 225? Same price as the AFr 205, but seems to be some are going to it .....

 

OK, and what about the cam, long tube headers and hoonker?

 

He has 5 more years,what is more important is what am Igonna do come that time

OK, sorry for the hijack....I will now "get out of your thread,Ed"

 

Ok worry warts, lets get back on track. Screw big brother.

I would really like to hear about the advantage/disadvantage of stock,205 afr, 215 edelbrock or trickflow 225, considering I am staying with a stock intake (ported) stock throttle body and a "lazy mans" cam.

205 or bigger? Why?

All the help would be appreciated.

 

Hey my friend,hope all is well!!
I got my cam from Livernois in Detroit,and I LOVE the results!!
It exceded everyones perdictions as far as RWHP gain!!
I'm not a pro when it comes to telling You which heads to go with,but give Dan Millen at Livernois a call{He "is" a pro} and I'm damn sure He'll set You up with an AWESOME package!!
Just try Him and let Me know what You think!!
As far as a shop to install,that's Your choice!
Damn,I wish I was doing more mods!!

George

 

This is where my knowledge runs out. I just don't know other TFS has been around a long time and some shops swear by that head. But AFR, TEA, ETP, Edelbrock, RHS, TSP, and Patriot all have their fan clubs. Forum head wars get just as nasty as header wars. Probably because most of these products perform very closely to each other and are priced about the same. The exception to the rule is Patriot, whose heads are almost $1,000 cheaper than the other names. That is because they modify a 243 or LQ9 (factory) casting, whereas others like AFR or ETP have clean sheet, proprietary designs. That said, the Patriots are CNC machined etc etc and seem to produce decent results, which makes one wonder what one is getting for $1,000 more. Maybe 10 more HP???


Also be aware that some companies selling heads are in fact re-porting an existing head. For example, TSP (Texas Speed) re-works Patriots. Lingenfelter reworks RHS (I think).

The other standouts are ETP, which uses a narrower valve angle (11deg rather than 15) and RHS 13.5 deg. This allows a longer port and better velocity, and better positioning of plugs resulting in better valve shrouding. All this adds up theoretically to better numbers and the ETPs are certainly the flow champions on paper.

The best is to get with a tuner and discuss options. If they immediately try to sell you some mondo setup rather than ask you what your driving needs are, look elsewhere. The real magic is in the parts combination, and the tune. And you also want a shop that will stand behind the work if there is a problem later such as parts failure, which happens.

 

Very nice TT. For now, I am the shop. Your analysis really helps. SOunds like maybe ETP or Patriot are the way to go?

What do you think about livernois who re-work a 243 casting?

 

I read good things about a Livernois H/C package a while back in chevy hi-po or similar online article.

If this is DIY I'd stay away from ETP because there are items that must be relocated with this head. The 15 deg heads like AFR, Patriot, etc. are true bolt-ins. Also the AFRs have the CARB EO and the Patriots have the 243 casting so they are stealth.

Here's the deal, I think we are both in the 400RW range, no? I have it from several sources LAPD, OCC TX spd etc that at this power level, and even with all my flow stuff (FAST, TB, headers, rockers), heads only, even if they are great, are worth maybe another 20-25 to the wheels. What any aftermarket head needs is an aftermarket cam.

Looking at prices, I can (a) get superdooper heads for $3,100 installed that will maybe make +25-30, or (b) get the Patriot heads + a cam for $3,300 installed which I know will get me +40 easy. Option B is best for me because that is all I want to spend and I feel 440-450 is about the most power that is usable in terms of available grip and livability. You also have to remember that the stock bottom end and drivetrain are getting stressed over 450RW. That may not matter much on the street, but I see yours goes to the track, which means you need reliability. I don't track my street cars anymore, but I drive it in the mountains as if it were on the track, redlining every gear for 1 hour straight. I need reliability too.

Now, if your objective is 465-475 RW and you don't care about smog and you are OK spending another $1,200 for the ETPs or the TFS plus cam, then I'd go for it.