Im considering the Callaway shorty headers, but Im curious as to how much of a performance loss I'd take vs a set of longtubes such as Kooks or LG.

Anyone have experience?

California sucks.

 

you will not see that much of gain vs lt. if you are dead set against lt headers then spent your money else where.

 

So you're saying the shorty headers arent worth the money? Just wanted to clarify...

 

everyone's definition of "worth the money" are different. you will gain some hp/tq, just nothing like what lt headers will give you. so you are getting some power for your money, is it worth it? it is your call. one thing is for certain, shorty headers doesn't give you the "bang for the buck" that lt headers gives you.

 

Your stock manifolds will work just as well as short tube headers.

 

I agree

 

The only vendor I'm aware of that has shorty headers is Callaway, but there not cheap I believe 1,350.00 a set. However, if ya gotta have em give them a call. They can answer your hp gain questions. Your right the left coast sucks for car guys.

 

If you bought your 2007 new you have 4 years before you have to smog it. So put the long tubes on it. Oh and California doesn't suck, if you don't really like it here you can always relocate!

 

It's a great place to live. Callaway says their headers will be CARB approved by the time the first 2005 will need to be smogged.

 

Correction: California sucks for car stuff. Other than that, I have no complaints.

Well damn, since I came from DSMs, I need my bang for the buck, guess I'll have to deal with some LTs...For anyone who doesn't know, DSMers are the cheapest group of modders on the planet. If there is a more cost effective (and still quality) solution to anything, they are all about it. I'm still in that mentality, but I don't see that stuff going on here in CF nearly as much

 

Billy Boat has short headers that hook right up to the stock h pipe location.

 

It would be nice if Callaway Cars or Billy Boat would chime in here and provide some dyno numbers like the LT folks do.

 

The Billy Boats are more like a medium length header. They don't mate up to the stock cats like the Calaway's do. If you mate the BB's to your H-pipe, you won't have any cat's. In Calif. that's a big fine.

 

If the Calaways attach to the stock cat's then don't bother, save your money.

I'm sure the Calaways would get you a fine in california too, btw, any header will.

 

Headers wouldnt really get you a fine over here, just a visual inspection problem when smog day comes.

 

So you dont have any laws against modifying you emissions?

I think if you have fines for no cats, those same laws will apply to any alteration of your emissions.

 

The law says that you can't remove/temper with any working factory installed catalytic converters, so technically I could be fined, (police dont exactly get training on what is factory and whats not on every make of car), but I've never once encountered any issues with this in the past. I had high-flow cats on my 3000GT VR-4 as well as both of my turbo DSMs. Never been hassled about it.

The real problem like I said is just visual inspection issues.

 

gutting the factory cats solves this problem. OF COURSE IT IS FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY.

 

Im going to post a cut and paste from the EPAs website here. Headers can and have been CARB certified but of course as already stated they cannot remove, replace or move the stock cats. The way I read it any other items that would be emissions sensitive would also be included or considered in the same manner as the cats. Perhaps others can comment on that? Nothing to do with my quoting your post jsk but as an aside I think this clearly makes long tube illegal in all states because both federal and CARB have those requirements and all states must comply with one or the other. Im pointing this out because people often say that long tubes are legal in their state. Cut and paste follows.









Emissions Laws & Regulations – Frequently Asked Questions


What is the difference between the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the California Air Resources Board (CARB)?

The EPA is a federal governmental agency that works to develop and enforce regulations that implement environmental laws enacted by Congress. CARB is a California governmental agency that promotes and protects public health, welfare and ecological resources through the reduction of air pollutants.

What agency establishes the laws that affect the emissions controls on my vehicle?

The State of California has long been recognized as one of the major air pollution problem areas in the United States. CARB was established in part to study this problem and implement changes to reduce air pollution. CARB has been leading the nation in implementation of strict emissions requirements for motor vehicles through the use of emission control devices and bi-annual motor vehicle smog-check program. Vehicles that are labeled as "California Emissions Equipped Vehicles" vehicles meet the emissions requirement of CARB for that particular model year.

The EPA establishes the pollution laws and regulations for states other than California. Vehicles that are labeled as "Federal" emission equipped vehicles meet the emissions requirement of the EPA for that particular model year.

Have other states adopted the California emissions laws?

In recent years, other states have suffered similar air pollution problems similar to those that faced California. Instead of these states enacting their own set of emissions laws, the federal government offered the California laws as an alternative. Instead of having 50 different sets of emissions laws, states must choose between either the California or Federal regulations.

At the present time there are several states that have enacted the California laws (i.e. Mass., Maine, New York, and Vermont) and new vehicles are sold as "California Emissions Equipped Vehicles". You can easily determine the emissions status of your car by referring to the emissions decal that is placed under the hood of your car.

Is my vehicle required to be submitted to a tailpipe emissions "smog-check?

This depends on the state that you reside in and the local requirements. For example in California, smog-checks are required in populated areas, but not in selected rural areas. With laws and regulations changing at an increasing rate, it is very difficult for the aftermarket to keep ahead of these changes. We suggest you contact your local or state agencies for information regarding your emissions laws.

Can I legally replace an emissions sensitive part on my car with an aftermarket product?

In the state of California, it is not legal to replace an emissions sensitive device without the replacement part having an exemption from CARB. Although replacing a particular device might have no apparent effect on the emissions, and the car might even pass a tail pipe "smog-check", the replacement part is still not considered emissions legal. In many cases, the mandatory visual inspection of the vehicle prior to an official state required smog-check may result in immediate failure of the test if a non-exempt part is identified.

A part that has been issued a CARB exemption has been subjected to strict laboratory testing as required by CARB in order to demonstrate that the replacement part will not increase emissions. (These tests are NOT the same as the "smog check" test and often require "cold start" testing procedures in order to test the efficiency of the emissions system during the initial seconds of the start-up cycle.) A part that has successfully passed these tests will be appointed an Executive Order number and will be listed on the CARB website for reference. Every Executive Order part or modification has an assigned number that can be verified by Smog Check stations, BAR Referee stations, or by the ARB. This number should be displayed on or near the emissions sensitive part for reference by a smog check technician.

For a database listing of current exempt parts, visit:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...es/amquery.php


What does it mean when an aftermarket product is advertised as "CARB Exempt" or "50 State Legal"?

Although a part may be advertised as "50 State Legal", this may be more of a marketing statement than reality. Unless an emissions sensitive part has been issued an Executive Order number by CARB, or an EPA exemption, the part is NOT legal for street use. Parts that are typically appointed CARB exemptions include: headers, air filter/intakes, turbo kits, and supercharger kits. Parts that are typically not eligible for a CARB exemption include, but are not limited to: OBD II replacement catalytic converters (as of early 2005, only a few 1997 and later OBD II catalytic converters have been granted an exemption), downpipes or headers that remove or relocate a catalytic converter, and performance carburetor kits. Contact the manufacturer of a product that you are considering purchasing for details regarding that specific component.

An exhaust system that is installed AFTER the catalytic converter is considered a "cat-back" system and is considered emissions legal. (Sound level restrictions may be an issue in your state, check with the exhaust manufacturer or you local authorities for more information.)

Can I replace the OEM catalytic converter on my car with a "high flow" catalytic converter?

The catalytic converter plays a major role in the emissions reduction of a motor vehicle. The vehicle manufacturer has matched a specific catalytic converter to the vehicle to minimize emissions output. Both CARB and the EPA do not allow the replacement of a catalytic converter with non-exempt "high flow" performance replacement unit. In fact, it is technically not legal to even replace a converter unless it has been proven by technician to have failed, and then it can only be replaced with an exempt OEM equivalent unit. (However, enforcement of this requirement is almost non-existent and is the primary loop-hole that allows the usage of so-called "high flow" catalytic converters. Many of these units are sold with the disclaimer as being a "race" component and are not intended for street use.) Due to the hundreds of vehicle models produced over the years, it is virtually impossible to determine by glancing under a car whether the converter is the original unit, a legal OEM replacement, or a non-legal aftermarket "high flow" performance unit. Unless CARB or the EPA decide to take more aggressive enforcement action, the installation and usage of these non-exempt "high flow" catalytic converters will likely continue.

 

Maybe in Jersey any header will. If they are CARB legal they are legal in CA period. It is a shame none of the long tubes are CARB legal.