Any reason to get a "tune" if car is stock? If so, what is changed?
08-15-2007, 07:45 PM
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08-15-2007, 08:23 PM
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Supporting Tuner
08-16-2007, 09:27 AM
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08-16-2007, 10:28 AM
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Don't get me wrong....I'm all for modding a C6 and I know a tune by a well-qualified tuner has benefits. That said and IMO there is truly no need to tune a stock C6. A tune is a fairly stealth modification but be aware the potential exists that a tune may adversely affect your warranty. I'm not trying to dissuade you from having your car tuned...just be aware of all the potential consequences.
08-16-2007, 02:22 PM
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
I'll explain it like this.....
I'll explain it like this......
EVERYONE, even old ladies, complain about the soggy, lame throttle response of the Corvette....
The LS2 is bad...and the LS7 is even worse.... These vehicles have WAY too much power and so, GM has "filtered" or "curved" the throttle response so that it's not very responsive below about 70% (of your pedal travel)
This keeps you from spinning the tires in the snow (god forbid) or rain and keeps a novice driver from "hopping" or jerking the car at low speeds and on takeoff.
Another way to put it is that if, for instance, the throttle was a cable or manual throttle like in a 69 camaro...The engine throttle would be roughly equal to the position of your foot at all times....
These Drive by wire cars are not that way at all... In fact....When your foot is roughly at 50% throttle (or pedal travel) the MAX ALLOWED ENGINE THROTTLE is only about 15%.... Below 50% it's even worse...and above 50% it begins to catch up....but not even close untill you are at 90%...
SO, all of your power is stuffed into the 75-100% (foot travel) range...
This is why these cars feel doggy and require lots of throttle "tip in" to make the car go....
All of my tunes allow me to vastly improve the throttle response of the LSX motors...For LS1's, I have ABSOLUTE CONTROL of the throttle which is really nice.
For LS2's, LS3's, and LS7's I make em really nice....BUT, it would be much better (or some say "GROND") if it was absolute like in the LS1's.
What I meant in my earlier thread was that presently, I actually have the ability to "directly, ABSOLUTELY" command the throttle opening in LS2,3,&7 cars....However, there are some very complex throttle diagnostic algorithms which need to be worked out before this mod is "road ready"....I'm not sure exactly when it will be done.... But, if you know me well....I'll be sure to let you know the minute it's available..
STAY TUNED for MORE!!!
Chuck CoW
EVERYONE, even old ladies, complain about the soggy, lame throttle response of the Corvette....
The LS2 is bad...and the LS7 is even worse.... These vehicles have WAY too much power and so, GM has "filtered" or "curved" the throttle response so that it's not very responsive below about 70% (of your pedal travel)
This keeps you from spinning the tires in the snow (god forbid) or rain and keeps a novice driver from "hopping" or jerking the car at low speeds and on takeoff.
Another way to put it is that if, for instance, the throttle was a cable or manual throttle like in a 69 camaro...The engine throttle would be roughly equal to the position of your foot at all times....
These Drive by wire cars are not that way at all... In fact....When your foot is roughly at 50% throttle (or pedal travel) the MAX ALLOWED ENGINE THROTTLE is only about 15%.... Below 50% it's even worse...and above 50% it begins to catch up....but not even close untill you are at 90%...
SO, all of your power is stuffed into the 75-100% (foot travel) range...
This is why these cars feel doggy and require lots of throttle "tip in" to make the car go....
All of my tunes allow me to vastly improve the throttle response of the LSX motors...For LS1's, I have ABSOLUTE CONTROL of the throttle which is really nice.
For LS2's, LS3's, and LS7's I make em really nice....BUT, it would be much better (or some say "GROND") if it was absolute like in the LS1's.
What I meant in my earlier thread was that presently, I actually have the ability to "directly, ABSOLUTELY" command the throttle opening in LS2,3,&7 cars....However, there are some very complex throttle diagnostic algorithms which need to be worked out before this mod is "road ready"....I'm not sure exactly when it will be done.... But, if you know me well....I'll be sure to let you know the minute it's available..
STAY TUNED for MORE!!!
Chuck CoW
Last edited by Chuck CoW; 08-16-2007 at 02:25 PM.
08-16-2007, 02:35 PM
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Warranty is not really an issue....
Don't get me wrong....I'm all for modding a C6 and I know a tune by a well-qualified tuner has benefits. That said and IMO there is truly no need to tune a stock C6. A tune is a fairly stealth modification but be aware the potential exists that a tune may adversely affect your warranty. I'm not trying to dissuade you from having your car tuned...just be aware of all the potential consequences.
There are many more obvious mods you could make (that would not nearly yield the same performance, or cost as little) that the dealer would more likely have a problem with....Meaning "bolt ons".
Many tuners suggest waiting till after you've done mods to tune....While that's smart if YOU'RE SURE YOU'RE GONNA MAKE MORE MODS....Many guys come here for tunes with no need or want to modify the car any futher.
Additionally, MY shop policy is "FREE RE-TUNES" for mods (not including cams, heads, f/i).... So, as you keep modding the car...you keep coming back for free re-tunes over and over.... SO, there is no reason to wait.....
After you make each mod...I make the car the best it can be....EVERY TIME....for FREE!
If you want a tune....GET ONE....You'll love it. And....if you mod the car later.....I DON'T CHARGE FOR RE-TUNES.....
STAY TUNED!
Chuck CoW
08-16-2007, 03:50 PM
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Actually, it is....
Actually, it is something nobody else has...or has ever seen...
The tables you are referring to are common place and hopefully, all tuners are making good use of them.... They allow max throttle and a slightly more aggressive throttle...
What I'm talking about has not been released yet... What I've been able to do is ABSOLUTELY control the throttle....VERY NICE!
Right now, I'm testing it on every vehicle I can find and tracking the results. While it does work....there are some things that have to be resolved BEFORE it's made publicly available.
With any luck it won't be too long....but, I can tell you now....GM didn't make this one too easy to get around. It's a tough nut to crack.
STAY TUNED!
Chuck CoW
The tables you are referring to are common place and hopefully, all tuners are making good use of them.... They allow max throttle and a slightly more aggressive throttle...
What I'm talking about has not been released yet... What I've been able to do is ABSOLUTELY control the throttle....VERY NICE!
Right now, I'm testing it on every vehicle I can find and tracking the results. While it does work....there are some things that have to be resolved BEFORE it's made publicly available.
With any luck it won't be too long....but, I can tell you now....GM didn't make this one too easy to get around. It's a tough nut to crack.
STAY TUNED!
Chuck CoW
08-16-2007, 04:04 PM
#29
Le Mans Master
Guys,
In case you're wondering what Chuck's last post was about, it was in response to a reply I posted and then deleted because in case I was right, I didn't want anyone to think I was giving his (or any other tuner's) secrets away. Here is my original post:
Chucks response:
Sorry for the confusion. I talked to Chuck and all I'll say is that what he's playing with is definitely more sophisticated than manupulating the above mentioned tables.
In case you're wondering what Chuck's last post was about, it was in response to a reply I posted and then deleted because in case I was right, I didn't want anyone to think I was giving his (or any other tuner's) secrets away. Here is my original post:
Originally Posted by 5 Liter Eater
Chuck,
Surely you're talking about something more sophisticated than just maxing out the ETC TPS Max VS: RPM VS: % Max torque and/or Brake Torque Limit VS: Vacuum VS: TPS tables right?
Not that this isn't a value add to any tune but your previous post made it seem like you had some inside knowledge.
Surely you're talking about something more sophisticated than just maxing out the ETC TPS Max VS: RPM VS: % Max torque and/or Brake Torque Limit VS: Vacuum VS: TPS tables right?
Not that this isn't a value add to any tune but your previous post made it seem like you had some inside knowledge.
Actually, it is something nobody else has...or has ever seen...
The tables you are referring to are common place and hopefully, all tuners are making good use of them.... They allow max throttle and a slightly more aggressive throttle...
What I'm talking about has not been released yet... What I've been able to do is ABSOLUTELY control the throttle....VERY NICE!
Right now, I'm testing it on every vehicle I can find and tracking the results. While it does work....there are some things that have to be resolved BEFORE it's made publicly available.
With any luck it won't be too long....but, I can tell you now....GM didn't make this one too easy to get around. It's a tough nut to crack.
STAY TUNED!
Chuck CoW
The tables you are referring to are common place and hopefully, all tuners are making good use of them.... They allow max throttle and a slightly more aggressive throttle...
What I'm talking about has not been released yet... What I've been able to do is ABSOLUTELY control the throttle....VERY NICE!
Right now, I'm testing it on every vehicle I can find and tracking the results. While it does work....there are some things that have to be resolved BEFORE it's made publicly available.
With any luck it won't be too long....but, I can tell you now....GM didn't make this one too easy to get around. It's a tough nut to crack.
STAY TUNED!
Chuck CoW
Last edited by 5 Liter Eater; 08-16-2007 at 04:23 PM.
08-16-2007, 04:32 PM
#30
Melting Slicks
Chuck,
It would be nice if you could control the drive by wire paramaters. Particularly in a A6 the throttle can be tricky and somewhat unpredictable at times. When you want to accelerate, but not go guns to the wall, it seems the you don't get the response proportionate to your foots input. While cruising, you want to speed up by pressing the gas it will go no difference, no difference, no difference, bam huge downshift, and your butt puckers as you hold on. Not quite that unpredictable, but you get the idea.
It would be nice if you could control the drive by wire paramaters. Particularly in a A6 the throttle can be tricky and somewhat unpredictable at times. When you want to accelerate, but not go guns to the wall, it seems the you don't get the response proportionate to your foots input. While cruising, you want to speed up by pressing the gas it will go no difference, no difference, no difference, bam huge downshift, and your butt puckers as you hold on. Not quite that unpredictable, but you get the idea.
08-16-2007, 04:44 PM
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Oh yeah!
Chuck,
It would be nice if you could control the drive by wire paramaters. Particularly in a A6 the throttle can be tricky and somewhat unpredictable at times. When you want to accelerate, but not go guns to the wall, it seems the you don't get the response proportionate to your foots input. While cruising, you want to speed up by pressing the gas it will go no difference, no difference, no difference, bam huge downshift, and your butt puckers as you hold on. Not quite that unpredictable, but you get the idea.
It would be nice if you could control the drive by wire paramaters. Particularly in a A6 the throttle can be tricky and somewhat unpredictable at times. When you want to accelerate, but not go guns to the wall, it seems the you don't get the response proportionate to your foots input. While cruising, you want to speed up by pressing the gas it will go no difference, no difference, no difference, bam huge downshift, and your butt puckers as you hold on. Not quite that unpredictable, but you get the idea.
Call me if you need me to elaborate...
Chuck CoW
08-16-2007, 04:55 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
After you get all the bugs out, will you be making it available to other tuners for a fee? I am in CA and would like to have the car tuned to your spec. after you finalize it.
08-16-2007, 06:19 PM
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
I think we'll be able to do that no problem....
When it's available...EVERYONE WILL KNOW!
Chuck CoW
08-16-2007, 06:49 PM
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My car is stock and I intend on leaving it stock for now (stock intake, stock exhaust system, stock thermostat, stock rear gears, etc).
I've heard that a mere "tune" can make a noticeable improvement even to cars that are bone stock. Is this true, and if so, exactly what aspects of the car get changed via the tune?
It is my understanding that there are different tuning "tools" (programs) out there. Which are considered "best". Which should be avoided?
I've searched the forum and found debates regarding "torque management", whether or not it exists, and if so, can it be removed, partially or fully or...? Anyone care to elaborate on this? I assume that TM is some sort of power "limiter"? What exactly is its purpose, and are there any good reasons NOT to remove it?
I am guessing that a "tune" may also include playing with fuel metering and ignition timing for more lower-end crispness. Is this true, and will it make a difference that you can "feel"? Any dangers?
What are some other parameters that are commonly altered (improved) on a bone stock car via a tune?
Would love to hear comments from people with stock cars that have gotten tunes. What was your experience? Review?
I've heard that a mere "tune" can make a noticeable improvement even to cars that are bone stock. Is this true, and if so, exactly what aspects of the car get changed via the tune?
It is my understanding that there are different tuning "tools" (programs) out there. Which are considered "best". Which should be avoided?
I've searched the forum and found debates regarding "torque management", whether or not it exists, and if so, can it be removed, partially or fully or...? Anyone care to elaborate on this? I assume that TM is some sort of power "limiter"? What exactly is its purpose, and are there any good reasons NOT to remove it?
I am guessing that a "tune" may also include playing with fuel metering and ignition timing for more lower-end crispness. Is this true, and will it make a difference that you can "feel"? Any dangers?
What are some other parameters that are commonly altered (improved) on a bone stock car via a tune?
Would love to hear comments from people with stock cars that have gotten tunes. What was your experience? Review?
I got my car tuned when it was BONE stock with 910 miles on the clock. Not only did my tuner turn off the tq managmanet, turn off the 1-4 skipshift and set my fans to come on full blast at a much cooler temp(car runs consistently at 196* now), but he was able to get another 15rwhp and 15rwtq out of it by adding timming and tunning it for 93 octane. When it was dyonoed stock, it made 349rwhp and 350rwtq my a/f ratio was all wavy and the car felt weak. after the tune, it made 365rwtq and 365rwtq and the a/f is perfect through the whole rev range. With the pick up of power/tq and the crap he turned off it feels much stronger forsure. It was worth every penny if you ask me.
Last edited by LMBC6Brian; 08-16-2007 at 06:59 PM.
08-16-2007, 06:54 PM
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Oh, and TQ managment DOES exist. I saw the settings in the HP tuners software where the car get limited to 200lbft of TQ to a certain RPM. In order to stop this he had to set the limit of tq to 999lbft to make sure it leaves you all your available tq at any given RPM. Get the tune, its worth it. I paid $200 for my tune and anymore than that would be pushing it for a stock car.
