When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
See thats what confuses me. If the springs are designed to handle high lift cams, I don't think they should be fatiguing at the rate to where you would need to change then anywhere near a yearly rate. Maybe every 3~4 years. The reason why I say this is because my old car was an Evo and we revved those cars with the stock valvetrain to 7900rpm with every aftermarket tune available. That was just the norm, some people who upgraded turbos would twist them to 8500rpm on the stock valvetrain although you are starting to push it at that point. Those cars run for 50, 60, 100k miles with no valvetrain issues at all even with more aggressive cams. Cams to an Evo guy is like headers to a vette guy, they are easy to throw on and make ~40hp more. I know Vette don't rev as high and that the valves are heavier, but the combination of lower revs(6500rpm) and a proper spring(correct seat pressure, binding characteristics, and spring rate)....I honestly thought that vavlesprings would be the last thing anyone would ever worry about when doing heads and a cam.
Problem is the people telling you their springs will last, are also selling the springs to you. Learned the hard way on anything aftermarket, the only way you know something works is to test it yourself or rely upon others of knowledge whom have done it for you.
Won’t go into detail but my personal cars have honestly had about a 1000 dyno pulls (no mistype) tuning and trying various things/combos through the years. When I did a set of 222cc Trick Flow heads using 2.08 stainless steel valves with .635 lift and shifting @ 7200 rpm, the set of comp springs that worked so well in a 6500 rpm 383, would last about a month at most.
We replaced the springs with new ones trying different lifters (Comp R’s and Morels) and the same thing happened again. The signature on the dyno of weak springs is pretty clear once you’ve learned to recognize it. Tried two sets of BeeHive springs and those had issues also. The only thing that solved the issue was going to a set of better metal PSI springs that were recommended by my head porter whom does a lot of circle track motors that see 8000 rpm all night long.
Don’t know anything about Evo’s but I’d be willing to guess my 1.625 exhaust valves are probably as big as their intakes or pretty damn close. The weight of the valves makes a hell of a difference, hence the titanium intake valves on the LS7.
Don’t know what to tell ya as I’ve broken both springs and lifters before but I do put the car on the dyno pretty often just to check what is going on and replace anything suspect in a heartbeat.
I'm confused. If you are only going to red line 12 times per year, why in the world are you going with a cam? The new cam makes all of it's power up high, so you are wasting your time unless you are going to use it.
Good question. As Joe G. guessed, I want some cam sound to tune the car's "personality." I tried to pick a cam that would make some sound at 925 RPM's. This particular cam is on a 112 LSA and has 5 degrees of mechanical advance. These design features help with the tendency of cams to shift everything to the right. The offset is that it won't make as much power at high RPM's as similar cams with wider LSA's or less advance. As you might guess, I don't care at all about that.
Two principal factors were inportant to me in choosing this cam beyond going far enough to get some cam cound. One was that it had to be a Crane cam. I have wanted a Crane cam in my car for 37 years. Now I'll have one. How's that for science? The other reason is that no one who reported on their experience with this cam on LS1 tech or this forum reported a loss of low-end torque. One user on this forum related to me, in a PM, that he got 350 ft lbs at 2,300 RPM's with a 5.7L and a 10.95 SCR. I don't get 350 lbs now until 3,000 RPM's. He did have aftermarket heads and I don't. That helped some, I'm sure. Lastly, Patrick G., a pretty wise one on LS1 tech, advised a potential user of this cam to expect an increase in low-end in the 2-3000 RPM range. Maybe Patrick G. and all of these people with actual experience with this cam are wrong. I'll soon know.
So that we don't hijack the thread more that we have, I'd comment to the original poster that I had lots of concerns before I decided to get the cam installed. I did all the research that I felt was appropriate and then some. Then I just stopped thinking about it. I plan to have no regrets.
Last edited by VetteNo2; Aug 30, 2007 at 11:44 PM.
Good question. As Joe G. guessed, I want some cam sound to tune the car's "personality." I tried to pick a cam that would make some sound at 925 RPM's. This particular cam is on a 112 LSA and has 5 degrees of mechanical advance. These design features help with the tendency of cams to shift everything to the right. The offset is that it won't make as much power at high RPM's as similar cams with wider LSA's or less advance. As you might guess, I don't care at all about that.
Two principal factors were inportant to me in choosing this cam beyond going far enough to get some cam cound. One was that it had to be a Crane cam. I have wanted a Crane cam in my car for 37 years. Now I'll have one. How's that for science? The other reason is that no one who reported on their experience with this cam on LS1 tech or this forum reported a loss of low-end torque. One user on this forum related to me, in a PM, that he got 350 ft lbs at 2,300 RPM's with a 5.7L and a 10.95 SCR. I don't get 350 lbs now until 3,000 RPM's. He did have aftermarket heads and I don't. That helped some, I'm sure. Lastly, Patrick G., a pretty wise one on LS1 tech, advised a potential user of this cam to inspect an increase in low-end in the 2-3000 RPM range. Maybe Patrick G. and all of these people with actual experience with this cam are wrong. I'll soon know.
So that we don't hijack the thread more that we have, I'd comment to the original poster that I had lots of concerns before I decided to get the cam installed. I did all the research that I felt was appropriate and then some. Then I just stopped thinking about it. I plan to have no regrets.
Sounds like you've done your research. I'll just warn you. Once you go to red line with your new cam, you will be HOOKED! You'll find it almost impossible to keep your right foot off the throttle.
Good question. As Joe G. guessed, I want some cam sound to tune the car's "personality." I tried to pick a cam that would make some sound at 925 RPM's. This particular cam is on a 112 LSA and has 5 degrees of mechanical advance. These design features help with the tendency of cams to shift everything to the right. The offset is that it won't make as much power at high RPM's as similar cams with wider LSA's or less advance. As you might guess, I don't care at all about that.
Two principal factors were inportant to me in choosing this cam beyond going far enough to get some cam cound. One was that it had to be a Crane cam. I have wanted a Crane cam in my car for 37 years. Now I'll have one. How's that for science? The other reason is that no one who reported on their experience with this cam on LS1 tech or this forum reported a loss of low-end torque. One user on this forum related to me, in a PM, that he got 350 ft lbs at 2,300 RPM's with a 5.7L and a 10.95 SCR. I don't get 350 lbs now until 3,000 RPM's. He did have aftermarket heads and I don't. That helped some, I'm sure. Lastly, Patrick G., a pretty wise one on LS1 tech, advised a potential user of this cam to inspect an increase in low-end in the 2-3000 RPM range. Maybe Patrick G. and all of these people with actual experience with this cam are wrong. I'll soon know.
.
The stuff is really pretty simple when it's all said n done. Lower durations, tighter lobe seperation and cam advance makes more cylinder pressure. Before I'd do the cam install, I'd run everything though a dynamic compression calculator just to see where your at. To optimise your combo, you might even want to think about tweaking your head gasket thickness.
Sounds like you've done your research. I'll just warn you. Once you go to red line with your new cam, you will be HOOKED! You'll find it almost impossible to keep your right foot off the throttle.
My back tires are afraid that you are right!
Sincerely, I appreciate your comments. I have studied the matter but I won't know the truth until I fire the car up and take it for a drive after the install. Wish me luck. After the install, I'll report the facts, report my impressions and try to distinguish between the two. Sometimes that is a hard thing to do.
Sincerely, I appreciate your comments. I have studied the matter but I won't know the truth until I fire the car up and take it for a drive after the install. Wish me luck. After the install, I'll report the facts, report my impressions and try to distinguish between the two. Sometimes that is a hard thing to do.
Thanks!
I think you have the right attitude, you are not going too wild. My only comment is to go ahead and enjoy the car, do not worry about the valve springs. If you want to be conservative replace them every 30,000 miles or so.
There are several things that affected driveability on my A6:
1. Car is hard to hold at a stop with the brake because of the higher idle RPM
2. car "bucks" at 35-45 MPH when the TC locks up and RPM's are low
3. sometimes the car shakes really bad, but not always. Its intermittent, like it "loads up" or something.
But it does go when you push the throttle down. I asked for the smallest cam choice I was offered when I had my car modded and tuned because I wanted good driveability. It seemed OK for a while but it got old with time. I may change cams eventually. It's that or go down the steeper slope of higher stall converter, tuning changes, ect.
Vetracer,
I ran a 224R cam (224/224/.581/.581/112) in my 01 Z28. It was pretty tame, but made decent power (381 rwhp) with just headers and a cutout. My only complaint was I had the cruise control effect where the car wouldn't decell normally when letting off the gas. I never had the problems you listed. Since you live in Phoenix, I'd recommend you talk to Nic Desjardins. I believe that Nic can solve your problems.
The stuff is really pretty simple when it's all said n done. Lower durations, tighter lobe seperation and cam advance makes more cylinder pressure. Before I'd do the cam install, I'd run everything though a dynamic compression calculator just to see where your at. To optimise your combo, you might even want to think about tweaking your head gasket thickness.
I tried to do this but I ran out of time. I relied on the experiences that I referred to earlier. The die is already cast. If the low-end torque is not enough, I'll get some new heads and pick it back up. I would do that now but I like a treat with the car every now and then so I'll put it off. Even if the low-end is fine, I'll probably do heads in the spring, anyway.