How to increase chassis/steering feel?
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,347
Likes: 25
From: Apache Junction AZ
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,347
Likes: 25
From: Apache Junction AZ
BJK
Last edited by 07MontRedcp; Nov 14, 2007 at 04:23 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Newport Beach California
Thanks for all the help guys. I have checked LG, DRM,and PFADT as well as searched google and i am still unable to find poly or metal bushings for the steering rack as it seems that is what will make the biggest difference in actual road feel? Also, i'm extremely torn between the koni FSD's and the bilsteins as i hear nothing but praise for both, but i'm leaning towards the koni's due to the fact that they where designed specifically for our cars. Also, i'm unsure if it is just my driving style or my car came misaligned from the factory but the side walls on my tires are always the first thing to go, on the stock run flats my front left tire had wires sticking out of the upper side wall which caused me to replace the whole set a little prematurely. Now the same thing is happening on the KDW2's although to a lesser extent, so an alignment and camber adjustment is definitely needed.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
From: Outer Suburbia SoCal
Thanks for all the help guys. I have checked LG, DRM,and PFADT as well as searched google and i am still unable to find poly or metal bushings for the steering rack as it seems that is what will make the biggest difference in actual road feel? Also, i'm extremely torn between the koni FSD's and the bilsteins as i hear nothing but praise for both, but i'm leaning towards the koni's due to the fact that they where designed specifically for our cars. Also, i'm unsure if it is just my driving style or my car came misaligned from the factory but the side walls on my tires are always the first thing to go, on the stock run flats my front left tire had wires sticking out of the upper side wall which caused me to replace the whole set a little prematurely. Now the same thing is happening on the KDW2's although to a lesser extent, so an alignment and camber adjustment is definitely needed.
Also, I just had a 3/8" tunnel plate installed (mainly to reduce console heat) and was surprised at how noticeable the effect on handling was. It's not earth shattering, but noticeable - especially if you're sensitive to chassis/steering feel. If you're gonna do a bunch of suspension mods, you might as well spend the extra $215 or so to throw on a thicker tunnel plate.
Intermediate
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles CA
First of all, try running higher tire pressures to save your sidewalls and/or use a little more gas through the turns to keep the car neutral (it sounds like you're inducing a lot of understeer when you turn).
Also, I just had a 3/8" tunnel plate installed (mainly to reduce console heat) and was surprised at how noticeable the effect on handling was. It's not earth shattering, but noticeable - especially if you're sensitive to chassis/steering feel. If you're gonna do a bunch of suspension mods, you might as well spend the extra $215 or so to throw on a thicker tunnel plate.
Also, I just had a 3/8" tunnel plate installed (mainly to reduce console heat) and was surprised at how noticeable the effect on handling was. It's not earth shattering, but noticeable - especially if you're sensitive to chassis/steering feel. If you're gonna do a bunch of suspension mods, you might as well spend the extra $215 or so to throw on a thicker tunnel plate.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Newport Beach California
I have been running a fairly high tire pressure all along to offset that problem, and i am not inducing alot of understeer. I actually induce oversteer very often with the gas pedal through most of my "spirited" corners 
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 996
Likes: 81
From: Lake Havasu, AZ.
If you are going on a roadrace track and even street driving it is recommended that you "toe out" your front slightly (.02 to .07 to start) and toe in your rear (.06 to .10) to start-
have the tech set both sides the same on each axle, do not allow them to just set the toe "in the green" as they can vary drastically from side to side, have then set it even or close on the rear and the front respectively.
You can run anywere from .2 to 1.2 negative camber on the front per factory, (and way more as others will chime in here) it all depends on your tires, driving style, and how much track time you are going to do.
you could start with say 1.2 neg. on the front, the max factory setting, again set each side the same or close, not one .6 and another 1.1---
the rear I would go with .8 neg. camber or so to start...................
---and keep the caster under 7, more than 6.5, up front, again even each side.
Find a shop that will let you tell them the settings you want, and monitor your tire wear, even if it costs you a couple of $100 alignments to get your settings as YOU like them and tire wear is reasonable/performance good, it is worth it considering the cost of a set of good tires @ $800- 1400
have the tech set both sides the same on each axle, do not allow them to just set the toe "in the green" as they can vary drastically from side to side, have then set it even or close on the rear and the front respectively.
You can run anywere from .2 to 1.2 negative camber on the front per factory, (and way more as others will chime in here) it all depends on your tires, driving style, and how much track time you are going to do.
you could start with say 1.2 neg. on the front, the max factory setting, again set each side the same or close, not one .6 and another 1.1---
the rear I would go with .8 neg. camber or so to start...................
---and keep the caster under 7, more than 6.5, up front, again even each side.
Find a shop that will let you tell them the settings you want, and monitor your tire wear, even if it costs you a couple of $100 alignments to get your settings as YOU like them and tire wear is reasonable/performance good, it is worth it considering the cost of a set of good tires @ $800- 1400
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Alignment first for better steering
Aggressive street / Light track use
Front
Camber: -.75 to -1.5*
Caster: Max but equal ( winds up about 6.5 to 6.7* )
toe: 1/16", 1/32" out to ZERO ( depends on the tracks corners)
Must be equal on both sides not a range
Rear
Camber: -.75 to -1.0*
toe: 1/32" IN
DIY alignment guild https://www.davidfarmerstuff.com/
Aggressive street / Light track use
Front
Camber: -.75 to -1.5*
Caster: Max but equal ( winds up about 6.5 to 6.7* )
toe: 1/16", 1/32" out to ZERO ( depends on the tracks corners)
Must be equal on both sides not a range
Rear
Camber: -.75 to -1.0*
toe: 1/32" IN
DIY alignment guild https://www.davidfarmerstuff.com/
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Salt Lake City UT
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Autocross & Roadrace Forum Sponsor
Alignment first for better steering
Aggressive street / Light track use
Front
Camber: -.75 to -1.5*
Caster: Max but equal ( winds up about 6.5 to 6.7* )
toe: 1/16", 1/32" out to ZERO ( depends on the tracks corners)
Must be equal on both sides not a range
Rear
Camber: -.75 to -1.0*
toe: 1/32" IN
DIY alignment guild https://www.davidfarmerstuff.com/
Aggressive street / Light track use
Front
Camber: -.75 to -1.5*
Caster: Max but equal ( winds up about 6.5 to 6.7* )
toe: 1/16", 1/32" out to ZERO ( depends on the tracks corners)
Must be equal on both sides not a range
Rear
Camber: -.75 to -1.0*
toe: 1/32" IN
DIY alignment guild https://www.davidfarmerstuff.com/
The bushings are also likely to allow some toe out-in front and toe-in in rear due to deflection. I have found that zero toe front and rear works pretty well with stock bushings, but I add toe-out in front and toe-in in the rear when I go to poly or solid bushings.
I also think that decreasing Caster from the 8.5* factory setting to 6 or so (equal on both sides is most important) will increase steering feel/responsiveness. Certainly a little toe-out in front will make the car more responsive as well. For a DIYer, just put in a 1/16" total toe-out in front for a nice feel.
-Aaron
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 996
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From: Lake Havasu, AZ.
Why does my alignment shop do the settings in degrees and most here use 1/16, 1/32, etc. ? I can tell the shop I use .03 toe out, and it is set at .03 or .o8, or .06 whatever.
I know that .03 corresponds to about 1/33.3 -
I also had the shop torque my bolts at the factory settings, I of course brought the torque wrench/sockets. I then had the alignment checked a week later and settings held good, only slight differences over initial.
Is it not more accurate to set at degrees than inches ?
I know that .03 corresponds to about 1/33.3 -
I also had the shop torque my bolts at the factory settings, I of course brought the torque wrench/sockets. I then had the alignment checked a week later and settings held good, only slight differences over initial.
Is it not more accurate to set at degrees than inches ?
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
I read sometime back, and can verify personally after running the my C6 at "race lap speeds", that you need to lower the rear of the car using special bolts that are available for about $40 in order to get the correct rake on the car. If you don't bring the rear downward while putting an agressive alignment in place, the back end will very abruptly come around in the mid-turn to exit-turn area and it is very "sudden".
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Why does my alignment shop do the settings in degrees and most here use 1/16, 1/32, etc. ? I can tell the shop I use .03 toe out, and it is set at .03 or .o8, or .06 whatever.
I know that .03 corresponds to about 1/33.3 -
I also had the shop torque my bolts at the factory settings, I of course brought the torque wrench/sockets. I then had the alignment checked a week later and settings held good, only slight differences over initial.
Is it not more accurate to set at degrees than inches ?
I know that .03 corresponds to about 1/33.3 -
I also had the shop torque my bolts at the factory settings, I of course brought the torque wrench/sockets. I then had the alignment checked a week later and settings held good, only slight differences over initial.
Is it not more accurate to set at degrees than inches ?
So it is easer to see 1/32" then .03*
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 954
Likes: 1
From: Salt Lake City UT
St. Jude Donor '08
Autocross & Roadrace Forum Sponsor
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: merritt island fl
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Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,670
Likes: 134
From: merritt island fl
C1 of Year Finalist (stock) 2019
2016 C1 of the Year Finalist
2015 C2 of the Year Finalist
