Do you guys think this would work to actuate a retro-fitted NPP system?





It's a simple 12V vacuum pump equipped with a pressure switch, normally used for performance applications as a brake booster helper to supplement manifold vacuum for blower or big camshaft engines.

The first one's physically a little big, but it could elimate the need to do all the GM vacuum tubing, accumulators, etc.

Probably best mounted in the storage well or its own enclosure (dry location)?

Actuated thru a hard switch on the console.

 

Yup it would work.

Looks a little on the large size but I'm sure it would do the trick, and quick too!

You really dont need a ton of vacuum volume to actuate the butterflies.

The pump I am using for my NPP All-in-1 retrofit kit is about 3 inches by 1 1/2 inches and does the trick easily.

 

How about this one used for hybrids & EV's?



Specs show quiet operation and integral vacuum pressure switch as key features.

Electric vacuum pump desc.

An electric vacuum pump is used in electric and conventional
vehicles to boost the vacuum needed for normal power brakes
operation. The pump featured here is manufactured specifically for
Electric Vehicles by MES-DEA in Switzerland; the type is 70/6E.
70/6E has extremely low acoustic noise and vibration levels, and hardly
noticed during operation. The vacuum is controlled by integrated control
circuitry consisting of vacuum sensor and solid state vacuum switch. The
pump will maintain preset vacuum level (about 18"...20" Hg standard)
cycling on and off on its own. All needed is 12 volts DC directly supplied
to the pump all the time, no external switches needed. The vacuum level
and hysteresis are not user adjustable and are set at the factory to
restore the standard vacuum level regular power brakes are designed for.
The pump will easily replace the vacuum source in regular vehicles if
their stock vacuum pump or system no longer functions. The vacuum booster
tank will decrease frequency of on and off cycling, but is not necessary
for proper operation and will not affect wear or life time of the pump.
Customized vacuum level settings (within limits shown on the plot below)
can be requested and will be ordered from the factory. Mating connector
included. 1 year warranty.

Dimensions

Main electrical characteristics:


Nominal voltage 12 VDC

Maximum current < 2.5 A

Time to -0.5 bar (in 2 liter booster tank) < 12 sec

Max recommended vacuum -0.65 bar

Min pressure switch hysteresis 0.05 bar

Noise level < 58 dBA

Size and weight 190 mm x 139 mm x 118 mm, 1.2 kg

 

Also found these tips based on EV applications....some may, or may not apply...

Using a vacuum reservoir will help to ensure the vacuum pump is not constantly cycling. This can be built with 18" of 3" PVC capped at either end.
Putting an in-rush surge limiter in series with the power of the vacuum pump, will make the unit quieter.
Always put a diode across (in parallel, cathode to +) any inductive device (pump in this case). This keeps the back emf spike 100's of volts from frying your contacts and not to mention and uP controls that may get glitched when the pulse goes through the wiring.
A great suggestion to keep the pump quiet: put the pump inside the vacuum reservoir. Noise does not transmit well through a vacuum. Given that 1 ATM is approx 15 psi, and that a typical vacuum pump works to about 9 psi, we need a box (or cylinder) that can hold about 13 psi external pressure.

 

Bub,

Lots of great info you found.

I will probably be selling the individual components I use in my All-in-1 kits on my website too, so do it yourselfers can make one if they want and save a little cash over a whole complete unit.

It shouldnt be a secret that only ONE person knows.....

Its not all that strange to think about using a vacuum pump to operate the butterflies.

I did the GM vacuum lines after contemplating this route back when I started my retrofit. It took me about 1-2 hours to install them and its all plug and play. No pressure switches and motors needed. And the vacuum pump (6.0L engine) pulls the vacuum like crazy! Valves close in .5 seconds.....

The electric vacuum pump does seem like an easy way to do it though. Its actually more complicated than doing the vacuum piping, but hey sometimes easier is more complicated.

Ben

 

Another less expensive option...GM booster used in RV's...

 

Thanks Ben...agreed...it's not rocket science...I get enough of that M-F with our hydrogen IGCC "science project" (i.e. FutureGen http://www.fossil.energy.gov/program...ems/futuregen/ )...

I recall your retro-fit post now. How much was all the vacuum tubing, reservoir & solenoid from GM?

Cheapest pump I've seen is ~$135.

Considering your comments about the vacuum tubing and engine vacuum almost being easier, I'm thinking I already have the vacuum tap off the brake booster hose for my S/C, so I guess I could just carefully run vacuum hose all the way back for the main run (probably including an inline filter somewhere) as an alternative. I'd still need at least the GM solenoid, and perhaps reservoir + the local vacuum tubing near the vicinity of the mufflers.

But wait, with S/C, under boost, I got no vacuum...., so I recon I would have to go with a pumped system...

That's a great product you have there with the RPM selectable controller using the tach pick-up signal wire counter and dip switch set points.

I may go this way (pump [your source] + release solenoid [GM?] + your RPM adjustable controller) and sell my B&B Bullets (They're just "all-on" loud, all the time!).

Also, thankfully I have Homelink, so I'd be able to program remotes.

Very cool. What's a used set of NPP's going for? I just haven't looked lately.

I guess I'm essentially making my own '06 "C6.6" here...

Supercharger for the HP, 2008 console and now pondering RPM adjustable, vacuum pump powered NPP as my next "project"!

(Come to think about it, this is also something GM has to be implementing with the upcoming SS [ZR1], a vacuum pumped system, or straight electromechanical actuator will be required due to the S/C.)

 

Thanks for the nice words...

Yeah under boost no vacuum.... there goes the gm piping route..
Although there is a one way valve and when the car is not under boost it is pulling the vacuum into a chamber that holds it.

I can go out to my car after its been off for a few days and go into power on/engine off and open and close the butterflies a few times before it uses up the remaining vacuum thats stored in the vacuum resivour.

I am going to be releasing a no splice rpm adjustable unit soon too.

It doesnt even need a tach signal to operate and open at a user selectable rpm.... Its like magic....

I have mine open at 2000 rpms just past the drone zone...

I havnt seen used NPP muflers for sale yet and from gm they are way too much $1250.

I used Z06 mufflers and got them for cheap.

Interesting thought about the ZR1 system. I wonder now......

Pm me anytime if you want any info....

 

All workable options for some of the DIY guys. 6 months ago when I started the effort to build a stand-alone NPP retrofit system, a google search showed many of the pumps/kits you show. I was aiming for a more compact all in one product that you can install in 10-15 minutes. It's a reality and called NPP in a box and is complete and working as shown here LINK.

Box #1 is already at a major exhaust company undergoing testing. They are excited and plan to use it in the new bi-mode retrofit system they are offering

 

Why bother??? All you need to do is to connect the to the engine vacuum system. This is easily done via a tap in the power brakes booster line. I have installed a couple Z06 systems into LS2 C6 coupes using my own control system. I also added a vacuum resorvoir like the stock Z system, it works fine even on a cammed engine. I installed a small industrial three way solenoid valve to control the vacuum to the resorvoir. You can get fancy and use a RPM switch to open the valve at what ever RPM you want. Or you just leave it open to the vacuum source and the valves open anytime that you are in WOT. On normal cruise under high vacuum the butterflies are closed, or you can open them manually by using a M2W remote or a toggle switch. Using a MSD RPM window switch in the circuit allows for full auto operation just like GMs system, it is strictly RPM dependent so you can set it at whatever RPM you want with a selection of pills. There are other methods but to me and to the customer I installed it on, it was the simplist way to do it.

No sense going through all the extra BS installing an electric vacuum pump and all the associated wiring BS to make it work. Just my two bits, take it for what its worth.

 

Agreed, the vacuum tie-in would be simplier for all normally aspirated engines; however, I'd be dealing with a supercharger in my case. With a S/C engine, boost could likely overcome vacuum (even with a reservoir incorporated) and butterflies could bleed open (e.g. lugging under boost at highway speed uphill) ...unless a sufficiently sized reservoir is included as Ben suggests above. Not sure how long the reservoir would last (long enough to last thru an extended period of + boost, before replenishing under vac.)?

All just a fun potential weekend project at this point.

 

The only time your engine would be under boost is when you got your foot in it. Then at that time you want the baffles open. At all other times the engine is under vacuum. Plus you can put a check valve in line between the vacuum source and the vacuum resorvoir. That will keep the valves closed until the control valve vents the vacuum off. The check valve will allow a one way flow from the muffs to the engine, it will prevent positive pressure. If you use this scenario then a electric control valve of some kind has to be used in order to vent the vacuum so that that the baffles will open at X RPM, Throttle position, or via M2W style controller. If you build the vacuum system correctly meaning leak free, the check valve in theory will keep the baffles closed indefinitely irregardless of boost conditions.

 

I guess I was probably wrongly thinking that the leak down would be more significant than it probably would prove to be in actuality (e.g. leaky check, etc.)...

I guess I still wonder about the scenario where I'd be in boost lugging up a hill and have the baffles open up unexpectedly...

Something one would just have to play with I suppose.

Vacuum hose is cheap

 

If you get a good check valve, you won't have any issues with lugging in say 4th going up a hill and the blower starts making boost of vaccum gets near to 100kpa, the check will hold the vacuum, and what is in reserve in the resorvoir will keep them closed. But like I mentioned earlier, a electric solenoid valve has to be used to bleed off the vacuum when you want the baffles open. This would be easily acomplished using one of the available NOS controllers that can accept a TPS position and RPM inputs so that you can choose what RPM and what TPS position that the baffles should open. It would be very easy to do in this manner.

 

Sounds like fun. How do I sign up?

 

Get yourself a set of Z06 mufflers and I can set you up