Hi,

Looking at the graph below, I don't know if I personally would call that peaky. Put a point on the graph right at 419 to represent the other torque number and i doubt that anyone could say 419 was better than 457peak torque.

This particular LG package is above 419 from about 3800rpms to 6400rpms, just to put it in perspective.

I am also Very sure that the other pacakge was built for its own purpose and Cartek is more than capable of making higher numbers if they choose to. Key word, "Choose" because there is no one cam that fits all, and every customer wants something to their taste and requirements.

We went through the Torque question in every LG Header discussion, now we seem to be in agreement that Torque wins races, and hp sells cams or engines.

Also, I just want to oint out that this car had NPP without our "Remote Man Switch", so the "flaps" don't open up till 3500rpms.

At any rate, I invite you to print this graph and plot other graphs over this graph and make your own conclusions.

Track times are equal to "uncorrected" numbers and are based on the track DA and conditions.

We have other cam packages that will yield different results both more and less aggressive.


Thanks,

Lou Gigliotti

 

yes, i'd love to see a dyno graph of a "less aggressive" lgm cam only ls3 car. Would it provide "flatter" sub 4000 rpm tq? I realize that might sacrifice some 6000+ rpm peak power, but thats ok. Just another option for a primarily street driven car for people to consider/compare. Regardless, Great results.

 

yep that's the usual way it goes

 

No and I dont think many people would expect it. One need only call Lou Jr. to talk about drivability. He says the cam isnt what you would want in a daily driver. He is currently rethinking so many grinds for this head/engine and can come up with many grinds that fit a spectrum of applications. Louis is a realist and is to be applauded for the most research done for the L92/LS3 platform to date but he isnt a liar. He is testing the max to see where it can go, not for it to be the standard but to dirtect a customer what happens at each cam level. I'm sure Cartek does too. I spoke at length with Louis on the topic. Driving characteristics are important and the tuning for the LS3 is in its infancy. There is a lot to master yet with how you make a big cam work on an LS3 computer. There isnt a conventional VE table so true speed density tuning is a dream for now. Without that, the bigger cams arent ever going to work as well as with older computers. EFI live has a virtual VE table of sorts to help but its still limited. That said, you have to be more specific with what you want in the manners up front. Saying I want 500rwhp is easy. 238 cams do that all the time. Now when you put the qualifier on it that you want a smoot idle, you just cut 12 degrees duration off the usable cam sizes for your application. If you have an auto....think 224 to 228. If you like low end TQ plan on a compression bump. If you want it stealth with a stock idle and no lope...stay with lazy lobes and a 215 to 220 duration.

A 236 cam is not going to be anywhere near a 224 cam for manners. As far as Tq numbers and cams, most cam swaps will not make much more TQ on these cars. As duration increases to move the power band up and the stock heads (read:compression) stay the same, there is a serious handicap for low and some mid TQ.

Cams tend to be a higher rpm mod and make for a real blast above 4500rpms but dont expect an increase in TQ from a cam below that. In most instances teraming up a big cam with stock compression will hurt low end TQ. As far as what is faster on the street vs a dyno pull, I saw first hand how a dyno can skew everything. Dave at cartek showed me how you could manipulate a dyno with timing that couldnt be run on the street and how a car wold pull it anyway under real world loads. I'm aware load bearing dyno's account for this but lets face it, many tuner packages are aimed at a dyno number and not with real world loads.

Did I add that my car also dyno'ed 16 HP at another dyno after leaving Cartek?

Use a dyno (the same dyno) as a tool for before and after or for same day tuning. Dont try comparing dyno's at one tuner to one on a different weather day in another location. Also when it comes to cams, I think all tuners have been around the block a few times when it comes to overcamming for an application. Cartek has produced many 500+rwhp LS2's and certainly can dot hat to an LS3 too. They give a customer what they ask for I have never been in a car with that kind of power that is streetable. Even as low as a 228 cam the effects of the 1600rpm surges can be felt if you're looking for it. I can put in a cam with 10 degrees more duration on my car and hit the 500rwhp mark easy. I already have some unwanted cam effects and the low end TQ isnt going to be anywhere near as impressive as what I have now.

Any cam over a 228 with enough advance to keep the DCR up isnt going to fit in this car with milled heads so the rest of the world looking to have 400rwtq at 3500rpm and 500rwhp at peak better get in line to rent the isky fly-cut tool for their pistons. I would also plan on a 1000 idle with lope and bucking under 2k rpms. Thats not what Cartek installed in his car and certainly isnt the most power they have gotten with L92/LS3 heads. The 465rwhp the guy got was without a hint of big cam troubles. I would also bet he could make the same power on 91 octane.

 

what do you mean spin i expect it and NOSLO6 and a few others expect it too

 

Can anyone (Spin) recommend a cam for an LS3 that would not upset the GM Service dept & give me 40hp/tq gains in the most stealth mode possible?

 

Dude, call Cartek,LG,Vette Doctors....and so on. You obviously don`t want to listen to people that know...

 

Well said !!

 

i think your right

 

OK here it is bud....there is no cam that will give you 40tq without removing the heads, flycutting, bumping compression, and upseting the service guys. The biggest max effort cam out there is the LG cam and it was 20-25rwtq more than you taking the gearing loss into account.

For the type of secrecy you require with the service dept, leave it stock or deal with a max 20HP/10rwtq bump. The cam you're looking for doesnt exist.

If you want what my car does, its middle of the road with todays cams and it doenst pass for stock or even close. You were in the car. I have the same heads. My heads and cam are comming out in 2 weeks or so. The new stuff is only going to see a 25hp/15tq jump and it will be a bit more agressive. Half of the gains will be from a compression jump and a head clean-up in the ports. The other half will be from some secret cam tuner input.

 

Thanks for this post!!!


From what I've read here and what I want out of my car (I want to increase low/mid range torque), a cam swap is not a good choice for me.

 

A cam swap with a compression bump would be decent gains but not if youre looking for 500rwhp and no head removal. For the idle to 4k guys: get gears first. Evaluate what you want after that. A head/cam swap would gain everywhere but that wasnt what this thread was about. Street guys should max the gearing first and add power in proportion to your application. If its just a cam swap and no head work or compression jump a 224 or 228 cam is about it. A 232 cam with a compression bump doesn loose anything down low and will gain plenty at peak TQ...4800rpm.

 

with the mods you have already your not trying to fool the service department and you wont fool me with that steathy cam thats why theirs vacum tests

 

If you add back the horse power used as a result of installing the 4.10 gears you are in the ballpark without a cam (it may be a bit bigger though)

A very mild cam will not give you crazy power, only more power under the curve (if the correct combination is utilized for your mods) usually moving that power up the power band to replace some of the HP utilized for the lower gears. (and lets not get into the 4.10 gears modification discussion again )

 

It was a good segway if one chose to go there....4.10's and cam selection....

 

If there was such a cam we would all be on line waiting

The head & cam combo with the other half will be from some secret cam tuner input really make it sort of plug & play if you get the right shop to do the work. It is much better than spending the time & effort to actually pick a H&C of your own choosing.

I have seen many of the Cartek H&C cars over the years at Englishtown & Atco...... they may not dyno well but they sure run fast

 

All the good tuners can make big horsepower and they have many different cams.

Pick a package that has the kind of drivability and power that you are looking for and you will have a smile on your face for a long time.

We build our cams from the X1 to the X5 and then our big cams that we are doing R&D on called the XX (double X cams)

There are plenty of good combos out there for you. Just pick a cam and an installer that you trust in your area and have at it.

Thanks
LG

 

Hey Guy

Notice the its late..... ah, maybe early for us but I don't think anyone wants a ten page discussion on 4.10 & cams

You know what happens when anyone brings up 4.10 gears

 

I just wanted to hear from guys w/ 3.90s