TRACTIONMONSTER part of the solution
01-26-2008, 11:16 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
Spin great write up, great info for all.
Since I'm a road racer I like the handling aspect of my car and with my modded Z51 A6 coupe w/CCWs 18/19 and Z06 rubber
, it handles well, but some better Nitto's in comparable sizes would be even better.
and yes, CoW Chuck is a good guy.
Thanks for all the info. Joe
Since I'm a road racer I like the handling aspect of my car and with my modded Z51 A6 coupe w/CCWs 18/19 and Z06 rubber
, it handles well, but some better Nitto's in comparable sizes would be even better.and yes, CoW Chuck is a good guy.
Thanks for all the info. Joe
01-26-2008, 11:17 AM
#22
Safety Car
Thanks Craig.
01-26-2008, 11:35 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
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Spin ... that is a very, very good write-up! I think you have put the whole thing into proper perspective.
One note, if I may ........ (and I AM paraphrasing here) you said with a welded, wider, wheel that the "weak" theory is a myth. I agree, but only if it is a proper weld. A good weld may even be stronger than the surrounding material. I'm not trying to question any members intelligence, just stating that one must be very careful to choose a good welder/shop to do this sort of thing.
I really enjoy reading a thread/post when the author has done some excellent sleuthing to give us great information. Bravo Zulu Spin!
One note, if I may ........ (and I AM paraphrasing here) you said with a welded, wider, wheel that the "weak" theory is a myth. I agree, but only if it is a proper weld. A good weld may even be stronger than the surrounding material. I'm not trying to question any members intelligence, just stating that one must be very careful to choose a good welder/shop to do this sort of thing.
I really enjoy reading a thread/post when the author has done some excellent sleuthing to give us great information. Bravo Zulu Spin!
01-26-2008, 11:50 AM
#25
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05-'08
Spin good write-up - in the road race section of the forum we are always debating tires, traction and handling (the discussions are the main reason I switched over to Hoosiers R6 and now A6 on the track from Kumhos). Power really isnt the issue, but going around a turn at 100mph versus 80mph is.....
When I went to my 18in CCWs I out Micheillin Pilot Sport Cups on the rims. Everyone was like WTF those tires have barely any tread on them and you cant use them in pouring rain. I said the tire is designed for maximun traction/handling on dry surfaces and I can get away with them for light rain (they were orginally bought as a rain tire for HPDEs) just have to watch standing water (I would also note that they are not great in freezing weather until they heat up, but all r-compound tires suffer from this).
Anyway I took out a friend who had C5Z with the F1s and we came around a turn by his house. He was like HOLY CHIT MAN my car would have slide off the road at that speed. Instead of sliding my car wanted more. I was amazed with how much better they were over the runcraps and F1s.
Oh and if you have any doubt of their performance look what comes on this car
Edo-Competition 2007 Porsche Carrera GT
My old setup (295F / 315R)
When I went to my 18in CCWs I out Micheillin Pilot Sport Cups on the rims. Everyone was like WTF those tires have barely any tread on them and you cant use them in pouring rain. I said the tire is designed for maximun traction/handling on dry surfaces and I can get away with them for light rain (they were orginally bought as a rain tire for HPDEs) just have to watch standing water (I would also note that they are not great in freezing weather until they heat up, but all r-compound tires suffer from this).
Anyway I took out a friend who had C5Z with the F1s and we came around a turn by his house. He was like HOLY CHIT MAN my car would have slide off the road at that speed. Instead of sliding my car wanted more. I was amazed with how much better they were over the runcraps and F1s.
Oh and if you have any doubt of their performance look what comes on this car
Edo-Competition 2007 Porsche Carrera GT
My old setup (295F / 315R)
Last edited by Wicked Weasel; 01-26-2008 at 12:00 PM.
01-26-2008, 12:24 PM
#26
Tech Contributor
When I purchased my MTs they hadn't offered a 305 sized tire -that is relatively new and the guy who sold me the 17" wheels told me they would fit and never mentioned that they would stick out "slightly" 
Once these tires are done I'll probably sell the wheels and move up to the 305/18" wheel combo. P.S. What 18" wheel Do those 305s fit on? Thanks
Once these tires are done I'll probably sell the wheels and move up to the 305/18" wheel combo. P.S. What 18" wheel Do those 305s fit on? ThanksSpin wanted a matched set of wheels and no way you can put 305 tires on stock 8.5 front c6 wheels so he had his widened.
If you want matching wheels with 555rii's the cheapest option is C5 standard sizes. That is if you like the looks of them.
01-26-2008, 12:50 PM
#28
Tech Contributor
01-26-2008, 01:52 PM
#29
Racer
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So, what it "the" tire in drag radials that will fit on C6 fronts or is there a 19" drag radial tire looming on the horizon?
Joe, how does that tire you are using hook up? I assume that is a Nitto, and I further assume that the Mickey Thompsom would fit that rim also-- Your thoughts?
Joe, how does that tire you are using hook up? I assume that is a Nitto, and I further assume that the Mickey Thompsom would fit that rim also-- Your thoughts?
01-26-2008, 02:02 PM
#31
Tech Contributor
So, what it "the" tire in drag radials that will fit on C6 fronts or is there a 19" drag radial tire looming on the horizon?
Joe, how does that tire you are using hook up? I assume that is a Nitto, and I further assume that the Mickey Thompsom would fit that rim also-- Your thoughts?
Joe, how does that tire you are using hook up? I assume that is a Nitto, and I further assume that the Mickey Thompsom would fit that rim also-- Your thoughts?
Nitto 555rii's 275-40-17 and 305-35-18 on C5 wagon wheels for road course duty.
Mickey Thompson 275-40-17's on C5 front wheels for drag strip use.
Stock runflats for street use - I daily drive my car in frequent rains in a suit and I don't want to be stranded with a flat on my way to/from work or a meeting or with a customer. I don't street race and in fact seldom even get on my car on the street. At my level 436/392 I have very adequate traction, of course I can spin my wheels if I don't drive properly, but balancing traction is a skill very useful regardless of the venue.
My use of my car for all 3 venues dictates 3 sets of tires. Personally, so long as Spinmonster doesn't drive in the rain and exercises extreme caution if he gets caught, I think he chose the PERFECT tire for his non-daily driver use since he still wants to corner. DR's are terrible around corners, at least M/T's are. I am nervous driving on them to the track every time worried I'd have to make an abrupt lane change - the rear is wobbly with those thin sidewalls, but that's how they get all their traction on the strip.
01-26-2008, 02:44 PM
#32
Team Owner
You cannot put those M/T 305 DRs on an 8.5" rim...as Spin has already mentioned, he had a front 18x8.5" set widened to 11"...that tire can really only be properly used on a rim of 10" to about 12" wide. 
01-26-2008, 03:08 PM
#34
Team Owner
No amount of power a C6 can develope will be too much for a wheel widened by weldcraft. I had wheels widened 20+ years ago for my dart. In the N2O classes I was looking at 1200HP and the initial runs with those wheels never broke them. I couldnt get the power to the ground. I still own the car and its welded wheels. I wasnt suggesting you use anyone but an established company in the business.
Weldcraft widened wheels are not second best to anything. I knew there would persist a lot of predjudice concerning the widening topic but I figured with my experiences alone it would spark some interest to at least get some people to do a search or make a phone call. Still most people are asking what tires fit stock rims and what wheels fit without going through the process. Widened stock wheels are far stronger than a reproduction wheel.
Weldcraft widened wheels are not second best to anything. I knew there would persist a lot of predjudice concerning the widening topic but I figured with my experiences alone it would spark some interest to at least get some people to do a search or make a phone call. Still most people are asking what tires fit stock rims and what wheels fit without going through the process. Widened stock wheels are far stronger than a reproduction wheel.
but my main issue/concern is weight. Stock wheels weigh enough as it is and widening them can only increase that (though certainly not by too much and they'll still weigh less than most repros). And we ALL know the effects that heavier rims 
can have on performance in both a straight line AND in the corners.But from a cost or stock appearance/sleeper perspective while still looking to do it correctly, there is NO other better alternative than what Spin has done here.
01-26-2008, 03:27 PM
#35
Instructor
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Awesome write up Spin. I have this bookmarked now for future reference.
I do have a question though. Is it possible to order a pair of front Z06 rims and mount them on the front of the C6. Then take those front C6 rims and widen them to 11" and use on the rear? Not sure if the offset on the front Z06 rims would still tuck in nicely on the C6 or if those rim demensions are exactly the same other than the extra inch of width.
Part of the reason I am thinking this is that when I order my vette next month I want the comp grey rims. I like the look of them and would want to try and keep the same rims while widening them all to increase handling and performance.
I do have a question though. Is it possible to order a pair of front Z06 rims and mount them on the front of the C6. Then take those front C6 rims and widen them to 11" and use on the rear? Not sure if the offset on the front Z06 rims would still tuck in nicely on the C6 or if those rim demensions are exactly the same other than the extra inch of width.
Part of the reason I am thinking this is that when I order my vette next month I want the comp grey rims. I like the look of them and would want to try and keep the same rims while widening them all to increase handling and performance.
01-26-2008, 05:31 PM
#36
Pro
Spin
Nice work, Glad to see another Weldcraft / stock fender combo
I never considered taking an 18 x 8.5" front to 11".
Did you have to modify the wheelwell liner? Also, you might want to consider the LPE shock brackets to shorten up the negative travel of the suspension and gain control arm clearance. I can get you the part numbers, they are about $60 pair.
Nice work, Glad to see another Weldcraft / stock fender combo
I never considered taking an 18 x 8.5" front to 11".
Did you have to modify the wheelwell liner? Also, you might want to consider the LPE shock brackets to shorten up the negative travel of the suspension and gain control arm clearance. I can get you the part numbers, they are about $60 pair.
Last edited by Gotcha; 01-26-2008 at 06:05 PM.
01-26-2008, 05:57 PM
#37
This is a very interesting idea. I've been trying to find a way to keep the stock look while running a stickier tire and this is seems like a great solution. One thing that concerns me about this is the rubbing issue. Do you think a 10.5 inch wheel would not rub on a slightly lowered car? I'm also wondering if the 305 tire is going to look fine on a 10.5 inch wheel?
Also, have you looked at any replica wheels that come in 18x10.5 or 18x11 sizes? Unless one gets a great deal on OEM fronts like you did, this seems like a more cost effective alternative...
Also, have you looked at any replica wheels that come in 18x10.5 or 18x11 sizes? Unless one gets a great deal on OEM fronts like you did, this seems like a more cost effective alternative...
01-26-2008, 06:12 PM
#38
Pro
The only rubbing he is getting is when the car is jacked up (suspension completely unloaded). The inside of the wheel is right up to the upper control arm. It wouldn't matter if the car was lowered or not.
There are no replica wheels with the correct offsets. Even if there were, I'd choose a widened oem wheel, over a cast replica any day.
There are no replica wheels with the correct offsets. Even if there were, I'd choose a widened oem wheel, over a cast replica any day.
01-26-2008, 06:36 PM
#39
They will fit on 10.5 but the 11" is fine. I put 200 miles on the car today driving over speed bumps and every type of driving that there could be and it never hit the marks I made to check it including a black magic marker around the entire circumference of the wheel's rear edge. I tried uneven pavement, driveways that are very tall where the front always hits, everything....no normal driving issue will ever get it to hit. I had to jack it up 10" off the ground to get it to hit.
Shock travel limiters are available from Lingenfelter for this purpose. The car would have to dispalce about 10" off the ground to hit the spot on the control arm....and so what if it did? It would be a momentary rub and not a major issue with the wheel turning. It isnt a big hit. If it were a 12" wide wheel I would think there would be an issue.
As for the replicas, there arent any in that size for a stock 5 spoke wheel. The 9.5 wide ones stock out and look pretty bad.
Replicas again, are very weak compared to a stock widened wheel. And what are you really saving? Mine were 700 complete with all shipping. I didnt have to refinish them, paint or chrome. My car looks like it came this way. A cheap repro is 500 shipped for the pair? 200 bucks is nothing. I cant believe it when a guy gets a stroker with twin turbos and gets a cheap set of chrome repros at 9.5" to run a 295 drag radials that sticks out. It like having a custom taylored Enzo suit made and getting a pair of shoes at Modell's. By the way, the suits for those who need custom tailering: Enzo's in New Hyde Park was unreal. He makes my suits that fit me to a "T" even if I put my arms over head. Nice guy, cash only... 1200 or so...
I wasnt looking for the easy way out or a cheaper way out. I was looking for the optimum set-up. A widened wheel is stronger, lighter, and fits perfectly; even at 11". Even if you could find one that was 11 inches with an amount of silly sticking out that you can live with, they still arent going to be the right color.
The stock wheels are a joke to find even at 150 for a set. Once widened, there is no reason to go with a sub standard manufactured wheel that is heavier, weaker, the wrong color, and it doesnt fit. I paid a bit more (200 instead of the 150 everyone else wanted) because the guy selling them said I would receive a perfect paint surface without a single scratch. Not having to refinish the wheels is a big part of the savings.
I wasnt looking for a weekend drag radial rim. This is my permanant wheel/tire set-up for me 24/7 and in bad weather if I should get stuck in the rain. The 555R2 is a wet performer too. I could have sacrificed more in some areas with gains in others. I only lost in one area: the longevity of the tire is 15k. Since I'm not spinning all the time the tires will undoubtedly last longer than my runflats whcih I replaced at 5500 miles in the rear.
This was a performance mod. The gas mileage/leave it stock guys should stay with runflats.
Shock travel limiters are available from Lingenfelter for this purpose. The car would have to dispalce about 10" off the ground to hit the spot on the control arm....and so what if it did? It would be a momentary rub and not a major issue with the wheel turning. It isnt a big hit. If it were a 12" wide wheel I would think there would be an issue.
As for the replicas, there arent any in that size for a stock 5 spoke wheel. The 9.5 wide ones stock out and look pretty bad.
Replicas again, are very weak compared to a stock widened wheel. And what are you really saving? Mine were 700 complete with all shipping. I didnt have to refinish them, paint or chrome. My car looks like it came this way. A cheap repro is 500 shipped for the pair? 200 bucks is nothing. I cant believe it when a guy gets a stroker with twin turbos and gets a cheap set of chrome repros at 9.5" to run a 295 drag radials that sticks out. It like having a custom taylored Enzo suit made and getting a pair of shoes at Modell's. By the way, the suits for those who need custom tailering: Enzo's in New Hyde Park was unreal. He makes my suits that fit me to a "T" even if I put my arms over head. Nice guy, cash only... 1200 or so...
I wasnt looking for the easy way out or a cheaper way out. I was looking for the optimum set-up. A widened wheel is stronger, lighter, and fits perfectly; even at 11". Even if you could find one that was 11 inches with an amount of silly sticking out that you can live with, they still arent going to be the right color.
The stock wheels are a joke to find even at 150 for a set. Once widened, there is no reason to go with a sub standard manufactured wheel that is heavier, weaker, the wrong color, and it doesnt fit. I paid a bit more (200 instead of the 150 everyone else wanted) because the guy selling them said I would receive a perfect paint surface without a single scratch. Not having to refinish the wheels is a big part of the savings.
I wasnt looking for a weekend drag radial rim. This is my permanant wheel/tire set-up for me 24/7 and in bad weather if I should get stuck in the rain. The 555R2 is a wet performer too. I could have sacrificed more in some areas with gains in others. I only lost in one area: the longevity of the tire is 15k. Since I'm not spinning all the time the tires will undoubtedly last longer than my runflats whcih I replaced at 5500 miles in the rear.
This was a performance mod. The gas mileage/leave it stock guys should stay with runflats.
I guess I'm out shopping for a set of C6 fronts now...
01-26-2008, 06:44 PM
#40
Race Director
***Don't overlook the new 19" Toyo R888***
Comes in a 295/30-19 and goes right on your 19x10 oem rim. It is a newer and better tire than the RII and the Proxes RA-1.