Cam selection advice please for daily driver
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 915
Likes: 1
From: UK
Cam selection advice please for daily driver
In addition to LT headers, sports cats, cat-back and CAI, I'm considering a cam swap. The car is a daily-driver (15k+ miles per year), so reliability is key. Also, the LSA cannot be <117 due to emissions requirements. So, I'm thinking along the lines of a LPE GT2-2 or a TR CheaTR. I've been advised to keep lift to .570" or below... is this good advice? I'm tempted by the CheaTR, but it's a pretty high-lift grind (.629"/.592") and I'd need dual springs. I'd like to retain the stock rockers.
Any suggestions for alternative cams, or comments on the above?
I'm thinking I'd gain around 15RWHP with the GT2-2 and 25RWHP with the CheaTR. Is this about right?
Oh, I've also been quoted 20 hours labour to install LT headers, exhaust and the cam. Does that sound reasonable?
Sorry for all the questions.
Cheers,
Ian.
Any suggestions for alternative cams, or comments on the above?
I'm thinking I'd gain around 15RWHP with the GT2-2 and 25RWHP with the CheaTR. Is this about right?
Oh, I've also been quoted 20 hours labour to install LT headers, exhaust and the cam. Does that sound reasonable?
Sorry for all the questions.
Cheers,
Ian.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 410
Likes: 9
getting direct RWHP versus stock cams is often hard to get out of tuners as they often throw so many other variables eg: headers, tune cai ,etc into the mix. On the GTO forum many have expressed + responses about the LPE GT2-3...sorta of a goosed up 2003-2004 LS6 cam. I would love to see the Thunder Racing CHEATR LS2 versus stock in both a LS2 and LS3 motor
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,231
Likes: 0
From: Brownsville Tx
A lot of people here LOVE the Lingenfelter GT11 cam. Good gains have been reported and the idle is very smooth. It is a high lift cam, but you shouldnt have a problem with that if you are using double springs. It is also for use with the stock rockers.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 16,067
Likes: 4,151
From: Bergen county NJ
Keep in mind that the valve springs(even duals) need to be replaced every 20K miles ..
Its a pain in the butt imo and I'd suggest the few extra hp is not worth the hassle...to remember to do it...to hire someone to do it and having to drop the car off with a tech or tuner..or to have the valve springs break...(not good at all)
Good luck in whatever you decide.
Its a pain in the butt imo and I'd suggest the few extra hp is not worth the hassle...to remember to do it...to hire someone to do it and having to drop the car off with a tech or tuner..or to have the valve springs break...(not good at all)
Good luck in whatever you decide.
Racer
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 255
Likes: 1
From: San Diego County CA
Just a suggestion here, key words Daily driver.
Keep it mild, stick with external mods, Headers, Intake, Tune etc. Headers leak, rattle against something when acclerating, welds break, plug wires burn, . All fixable without great expense.
I have taken several perfectly good cars and spent buckets of money to make them undriveable. As soon as you mod it, something is always wrong or doesn't work quite right.
Also, you are going to sell this one day if it is only external mods, you can put it back to stock easily.
But I understand the mod monster. Best of luck with what you decide.
Keep it mild, stick with external mods, Headers, Intake, Tune etc. Headers leak, rattle against something when acclerating, welds break, plug wires burn, . All fixable without great expense.
I have taken several perfectly good cars and spent buckets of money to make them undriveable. As soon as you mod it, something is always wrong or doesn't work quite right.
Also, you are going to sell this one day if it is only external mods, you can put it back to stock easily.
But I understand the mod monster. Best of luck with what you decide.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,307
Likes: 111
From: Tucson AZ
Vette Magazine did a nice article on testing cams, headers, and intakes on an LS2. They first tested a very mild Comp Cams cam (XR265HR, 0.522/0.529" lift split, a 212/218-degree duration split, and a 114-degree lobe separation angle) and had very good results. They later tested a lot more aggressive grind and only gained 1 more hp.
With a Fast intake, headers, and this cam, the LS2 made almost 500hp.
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_06...ine/index.html
With a Fast intake, headers, and this cam, the LS2 made almost 500hp.
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_06...ine/index.html
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,537
Likes: 1,404
From: Bethesda MD
There is nothing magic about a 117 LSA as far as passing emissions. There are guys running around with 112 and 114 LSAs that pass the test in CA. and other places. Just keep your overlap at .05 into the negative range. I've seen people do it with zero overlap, but I doubt you're interested in tuning to pass and then retuning for street. In your case, -6 to -8 will be fine.
BTW, how serious is your location about emissions if you can add LT headers?
TR Cheatr is going to have you doing a spring swap no less than every other year and annually if you are conservative. You don't need huge exhaust duration with headers.
BTW, how serious is your location about emissions if you can add LT headers?
The car is a daily-driver (15k+ miles per year), so reliability is key.
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 915
Likes: 1
From: UK
There is nothing magic about a 117 LSA as far as passing emissions. There are guys running around with 112 and 114 LSAs that pass the test in CA. and other places. Just keep your overlap at .05 into the negative range. I've seen people do it with zero overlap, but I doubt you're interested in tuning to pass and then retuning for street. In your case, -6 to -8 will be fine.
Actually, given other comments in this thread, I'm starting to think a cam swap wouldn't really be worth all the expense and potential hassle given that it must be reliable for a daily-driver AND meet the above emissions requirements. It would be nice if the car was a weekend toy and didn't need to meet emissions regulations; then, I could install a nice, big, lopey cam and gain 50-100RWHP right off the bat. As it is, I'll be lucky to pick-up 20RWHP. Hmmm.
Cheers,
Ian.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 671
Likes: 16
From: Plano TX
Maybe a custom ground 228/228 .598/.598 on a 114 LSA with some custom CNCd heads, and a ported intake and throttle body, this should result to a good 50-60rwhp, with a good tune of course. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I know Texas Speed and Performance set me up nicely with a 232/234 .598/.598 on a 114 LSA TSP Torquer cam, that was just perfect. They are a forum vendor and could give you more info. Ph#: (806)866-0734. Ask for Jon. Good Luck to ya!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 915
Likes: 1
From: UK
Maybe a custom ground 228/228 .598/.598 on a 114 LSA with some custom CNCd heads, and a ported intake and throttle body, this should result to a good 50-60rwhp, with a good tune of course. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I know Texas Speed and Performance set me up nicely with a 232/234 .598/.598 on a 114 LSA TSP Torquer cam, that was just perfect. They are a forum vendor and could give you more info. Ph#: (806)866-0734. Ask for Jon. Good Luck to ya!
Maybe I should forget bolt-ons and rethink a blower set-up... no emissions worries, massive power and the best bang for the buck (except NOS, which I don't want to do).
Cheers,
Ian.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 410
Likes: 9
The Ls7/ZO6 has approx .590 lift coming from Chevrolet so I would not let that deter you...if you have an LS2 you may want to look into the Thunder Racing Cheatr Package...includes AFR 205 heads, Cheatr cam with the right springs, then add the new Weiand intake coming out this spring....should be good for about 60-75 RWHP....maybe more!
Last edited by Wallacefl; Feb 14, 2008 at 09:37 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,537
Likes: 1,404
From: Bethesda MD
I would not give up on a cam swap if you want to stay NA. Something like a 220/224 115 on Comp XE lobes would provide a nice gain over stock. Even if you gain only 25 HP peak (you could see 30 from the cam), you'll have gains in torque accross a wide range. Small cam swaps are typically good for .2 - .4 ET gain and 2 - 4 mph. That some real improvement. Also do a UD pulley with the swap.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,516
Likes: 2
From: Virginia Bch VA
Cruise-In VI Veteran
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06
Please ensure that you get Dual HD Springs. OEM Springs are weak and Comp Cam Behives are not much better.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 848
Likes: 8
From: St. Louis Mo.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,149
Likes: 11
From: Greater Detroit Metro MI, when I'm not travelling.
Just a suggestion here, key words Daily driver.
Keep it mild, stick with external mods, Headers, Intake, Tune etc. Headers leak, rattle against something when acclerating, welds break, plug wires burn, . All fixable without great expense.
I have taken several perfectly good cars and spent buckets of money to make them undriveable. As soon as you mod it, something is always wrong or doesn't work quite right.
Also, you are going to sell this one day if it is only external mods, you can put it back to stock easily.
But I understand the mod monster. Best of luck with what you decide.
Keep it mild, stick with external mods, Headers, Intake, Tune etc. Headers leak, rattle against something when acclerating, welds break, plug wires burn, . All fixable without great expense.
I have taken several perfectly good cars and spent buckets of money to make them undriveable. As soon as you mod it, something is always wrong or doesn't work quite right.
Also, you are going to sell this one day if it is only external mods, you can put it back to stock easily.
But I understand the mod monster. Best of luck with what you decide.
Been there done that... TWICE! Mine weren't undriveable though, they just became increasingly less reliable.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,149
Likes: 11
From: Greater Detroit Metro MI, when I'm not travelling.
Keep in mind that the valve springs(even duals) need to be replaced every 20K miles ..
Its a pain in the butt imo and I'd suggest the few extra hp is not worth the hassle...to remember to do it...to hire someone to do it and having to drop the car off with a tech or tuner..or to have the valve springs break...(not good at all)
Good luck in whatever you decide.
Its a pain in the butt imo and I'd suggest the few extra hp is not worth the hassle...to remember to do it...to hire someone to do it and having to drop the car off with a tech or tuner..or to have the valve springs break...(not good at all)
Good luck in whatever you decide.
ZO6 Owner
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 979
Likes: 5
From: Richmond Texas
Keep in mind that the valve springs(even duals) need to be replaced every 20K miles ..
Its a pain in the butt imo and I'd suggest the few extra hp is not worth the hassle...to remember to do it...to hire someone to do it and having to drop the car off with a tech or tuner..or to have the valve springs break...(not good at all)
Good luck in whatever you decide.
Its a pain in the butt imo and I'd suggest the few extra hp is not worth the hassle...to remember to do it...to hire someone to do it and having to drop the car off with a tech or tuner..or to have the valve springs break...(not good at all)
Good luck in whatever you decide.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
From: Western NY New York
I was out on Cartek's site the othter say and they have some nice milder cam's that should perform very well. The M cam and the H cam both look like real nice "street" options. They have nice duration but keep the lift in a reasonable range that will keep your valvetrain reliable for a long time.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,537
Likes: 1,404
From: Bethesda MD
I don't know that I would want to see if the stock springs will last 100k miles if drove the car hard. I'd guess there's a bit of float by then at 6500 rpm.