That's because you can afford to love them. Again, no one said the Z06 were better. This is about bang-for-the-buck.

 

Tom i am defending spin because he is right. and he has a lot of knowledge and common sense, all his ideas that he has came up with i have used a few and they have shown great results for me the common sense part is 30 mote rwhp on a dyno it has to be a mistake or a lie. like i stated if you add all that to the c6 it will have almost the same hp as the zo6. the 30 for exhaust the 100 mm maf has shown 20 hp in the c5 section now dri sump and whatever else can be transplanted from the zo6, you would have the same hp with a smaller cubic inch motor. see the common sense part. spin is tough and licensed to carry, i want to be on his side

 

Exactly. Most I've EVER seen on this forum from a stock Z06 w/headers and a tune only is 15hp. That is what you could get from the tune alone.

 

Just curious, why would you remove LG headers and put on cast manifolds? And who talked you into that?

Anyone able to post a dynojet printout of these remarkable gains with the Z06 manifolds? I cant find one anywhere. All I hear of is one guys claims.

 

Z06 maniflods are not made of cast iron.

"A rarity for production engines--and even racing engines--the exhaust manifolds are made from hydro-formed tubular steel. The individual runners of the header tubes meet at a unique quad-outlet collector, which is said to smooth exhaust flow and reduce backpressure."

 

The dyno has been posted twice in this thread...

 

Ok so we have proof of one car that showed a 30rwhp increase with the Z manifolds only. We also have another car that only showed a 10rwhp increase with the Z manifolds only. This is why we need more tests, so we can get an average acceptable estimate of HP/TQ gains.

I agree that LTs are expensive but currently the market can support the price. I understand why some would not want to spend the money. I think the Z manifolds if purchased for a good price($500+/-) and self installed can be another solution. However I see a slight flaw in this logic and this is the part of Spin's opinion that I agree with. I understand the want to save money for future mods. But just about any mod you do after that (other than gears/trans) will only be obstructed by the Z manifolds as opposed to LTs. This will most likely cut down on your potential power output. Let's say you're only 15rwhp less with Zs than with LTs. That's on a stock motor. You add heads/cam/intake or S/C to that motor and the restriction will be greater than 15rwhp. It kind of makes whatever mods you are going to perform after the Zs not as beneficial and certainly less efficient. I don't see how that is a good practice in HP per $.

Although, most looking to do Z manifolds as opposed to LTs are probably not concerned with absolute power gains. On a stock or very mildly modded motor (ie: CAI/tune) the Zs seem to be a decent pennywise alternative(pending more results). But I think any mods done after that just makes it illogical. JMO, which doesn't account for much.

 

Thanks for learning me something today.

 

Good point, which I agree with...and you answered your own question. W/the C6, I'll never be able to afford a "max motor" or even 1/4 of the stuff that guys like Spin have done. If I had C4, it would (and has been) a different story. I need max Bang-for-the-buck mods, and this is one of them. I will NEVER lay down $1.5k on a set of header. Won't happen for me. I'll fab my own LT headers before I do that, but instead along comes the Z06 option. Looks pretty attractive to me. That's where a guy like me is coming from.

The fact that the ZO6 mani's support 505 hp and LT's show minimal peak gains, tells ME that they aren't much of a "restriction" even at that level. I've got a ways to go before I'm putting out 500 CHP.

 

For some people its going to be getting around the drawbacks associated with long tubes.

Depending on the car owner, each can be anything from a big headache to no problem at all.

1. Cost.

2. Emissions.

Z06 manifolds can probably be had for a lot cheaper than a set of long tubes, they look like original equipment, can probably be run with no tune right away, and not have to worry about a CEL. The last three can be important for emissions.

On the down side, they probably won't make as much power as long tubes, especially in the mid ranges.

But that might be an acceptable trade off for some people here who are concerned about costs and emissions testing or warranty.

While there is no guarantee that your warranty will remain intact with a set of Z06 manifolds on your C6, because they are not original equipment, you might have a better chance of not running into warranty issues with a set of Z06 manifolds on, vs a set of long tubes.

I guess they are sort of like "OEM" shorty headers if there is such a thing. Not the power you are going to get from long tubes, but less hassle than long tubes though. And make no mistake, long tubes can be a hassle.

The way I see it is that its just another alternative for people who are interested in changing their exhaust system in an attempt to make more power. Each option has trade offs.

 

That sums it up quite nicely, I think

 

my 2 Cents

anyone taking the cheap way out of gaining HP by bolting/modifing "hand-me-down" parts (aka Z06 manifolds) shouldn't own or not even get into modding.........

LG Headers 1,800 expensive?



I have personally witnesed headers install on an M6, the whole front undercarrige needs to be dropped, also the cat-back for an M6 costs

and heres a "group buy" for tubi cat-back

Also for the E55 Benz, CAI, comp flash & a smaller pulley for the kompressor is.................$3,500

 

Answers above.

 

Its not just the $1795 which LGs go for C6DVL. And I have owned both LGs and KOOKS. Both great products if you can afford them.

But like I said, its not just the cost of the headers.

IMO, there is no point in investing in a set of long tubes unless you are going to get the car tuned and tuned well after the header install. So count on another 5 bills.

If you are handy with a wrench, you can put on your own headers and save some dough that way, but the tune is really what sets the headers off. If you are not good with a wrench, then prepare to pay someone to install them.

Some even like to get fancy with coating their headers as well, though I never coated either my LG Pros or KOOKS.

So those people can add a couple hundred more.

When its all said and done, the headers, shipping, (coating if you want to have them coated albeit probably not necessary), and the tune,.... the change you have left over from 3 grand won't even get you a set of drag radials amounted on a good set of rear wheels.

Now compare that to an entire take off Z06 exhaust system. Even if you only got half the gain, you still don't have near as much money into it, you don't have to worry about emissions, and your warranty may not be at as big of a risk as it would be with long tubes.

Now for some of the guys here, they couldn't care less about warranty.

But if for example, my starter goes out, I don't want the dealer bitching that it was due to the heat from my long tube headers, I want my starter replaced.

 

I disagree with this as the new ZR1 will have the same manifolds and produce 650hp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Just a note, GM has Supercomputers running CATIA based Computational Fluid Dynamics Analysis tools for designing these hydroformed manifolds.
I don't think one of these weld shops making headers has that!

 

I pretty much agreed with everything you said prior to this post, but on this one when talking $$$, you should have quit while you were ahead

I got my Kooks #6600-EX 1 3/4" headers with Hi Flo Cats from forum vendor MarylandSpeed for 1,380 with free Jet Hot Extreme 1700 coating and free shipping. Installed them myself with a pal for free, though I did pay $20.00 for new GM Gaskets. I also bought a HP Tuner for $500 but tuned other things (like tranny) than my headers so we'll call that $250.00. Adds up to $1650...far less than your 3K and the saved money could easily buy 17" DR's with C5 Z06 wheels (or 18" DR's on C6 oem front wheels), Vararam or Honker and still have money left over from 3K.

 

'06 Quicksliver Z06 I agree with everything you said. If you add up all my posts in this thread they equal about what you said in yours.

Well everyone's budget is different so it's not fair to say they shouldn't be modding, etc.

And comparing BMW M series mods isn't an accurate comparison either. They are a foreign high-end automaker. Of course their prices will be high. I will admit that in absolutes that price is high for what the sum of the parts actually are. But I guess that's just how it is.


True. But then this result needs further looking into then.

His H/C LS2 making much less than the ZR1 showed almost a 40rwhp loss. Remember GM isn't designing motors for maximum power output.

No they probably don't but that doesn't really matter. The LTs are showing power gains. That is what matters.

 

[QUOTE=C6 DVL;1564251709]my 2 Cents

anyone taking the cheap way out of gaining HP by bolting/modifing "hand-me-down" parts (aka Z06 manifolds) shouldn't own or not even get into modding.........

LG Headers 1,800 expensive?
QUOTE]

You know, things said like this really make it that much easier to sell these parts at higher prices than they need to be. Apparently, you have plenty of money to throw around. Must be nice. Some of us are hard working individuals that earn a good living and enjoy modding our cars on a budget. These arent 100k cars like the benz, and if they were, many of us wouldnt have them. Who are you to say what someone should or should not do to their car. There are plenty of high priced exterior look items that look like crap IMHO...but I keep my mouth shut about it, because to each his own.

 

Take a look at the stock pull. The computer is pulling timing (car was probably hot) at 4200 to 4300. If you get rid of the dip, the difference is a lot less.