Z06 manifold hype
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'11-'12
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...9&postcount=27
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...91&postcount=8
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...9&postcount=14
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...94&postcount=5
After rereading some of this thread, I just wanted to reiterate what I said in my first post....
I do agree with one aspect of this idea - and that is there is a huge Corvette Tax on headers. $1800 +/- plus install is a heck of a lot of money compared to prices of other cars....some resign themselves to it comes with the territory of owning a Corvette, others don't have as much money to throw around, ESPECIALLY in our current time of recession. I do applaud anyone doing the best with what they have available, and recycling unwanted Z06 parts if that's what they can afford or desire...as long as they aren't led to believe something that is not true that is propegated by the seller in the "For Sale" section looking to make buck at someone else's expense.
I'm not knocking anyone for what they do to make their car better for them (considering both their intended use and funds to make it that way) - but technical facts provided from experience do exist despite anyone's "opinion" or choice to overlook them. Whatever you do or dont do to your car...remember....it's YOUR car...do whatever you want to it, be proud of it and have a blast driving it...you sure as heck worked hard to get it that way.
Last edited by Craigster05; Feb 24, 2008 at 09:02 PM.
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I pretty much agreed with everything you said prior to this post, but on this one you should have quit while you were ahead
I got my Kooks #6600-EX 1 3/4" headers with Hi Flo Cats from forum vendor MarylandSpeed for 1,380 with free Jet Hot Extreme 1700 coating and free shipping. Installed them myself with a pal for free, though I did pay $20.00 for new GM Gaskets. I also bought a HP Tuner for $500 but tuned other things (like tranny) than my headers so we'll call that $250.00. Adds up to $1650...far less than your 3K and the saved money could easily buy 17" DR's with C5 Z06 wheels (or 18" DR's on C6 oem front wheels), Vararam or Honker and still have money left over from 3K.
I got my Kooks #6600-EX 1 3/4" headers with Hi Flo Cats from forum vendor MarylandSpeed for 1,380 with free Jet Hot Extreme 1700 coating and free shipping. Installed them myself with a pal for free, though I did pay $20.00 for new GM Gaskets. I also bought a HP Tuner for $500 but tuned other things (like tranny) than my headers so we'll call that $250.00. Adds up to $1650...far less than your 3K and the saved money could easily buy 17" DR's with C5 Z06 wheels (or 18" DR's on C6 oem front wheels), Vararam or Honker and still have money left over from 3K.
Secondly, how much experience do you have tuning cars?
A real professional who takes the time to dyno tune and street tune the car is going to charge you around $500.00 just for that. Especially if he has to fool with shift points, etc in an automatic in addition to the engine tuning.
Thats $2295.00. I was figuring another $200.00 for Jet Hot coating with the shipping to put you at around $2500.00.
A set of 315/30R18 BFG g-Force T/A Drag Radials can be priced here.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes....FA+Drag+Radial
Or if you prefer 17s they are on the same page.
Or you can go with Mickey Thompson ET streets at a savings of about $100.00 a tire.
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=400206
Two front wheels or two C5 Z06 wheels will run you about $125-150 each.
And they still have to be mounted, balanced and shipped.
So actually 3K is about right.
Just to let you know, I had a set of C5 Z06 wheels. Chromies with BFG 315/30R18 BFG g-Force T/A Drag Radials mounted and balanced on them, running on my C5, and I spent over $650.00 back then to get them.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Feb 24, 2008 at 09:14 PM.
Safety Car
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'11-'12
I know this is a little off topic, but at least this thread is MUCH more fun than the stupid Academy Awards that I hear blaring off the TV (The wife did push me to buy the Corvette in the first place so I guess I can put up with it )
)
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St. Jude Donor '08
You know, things said like this really make it that much easier to sell these parts at higher prices than they need to be. Apparently, you have plenty of money to throw around. Must be nice. Some of us are hard working individuals that earn a good living and enjoy modding our cars on a budget. These arent 100k cars like the benz, and if they were, many of us wouldnt have them. Who are you to say what someone should or should not do to their car. There are plenty of high priced exterior look items that look like crap IMHO...but I keep my mouth shut about it, because to each his own.
not at all, I just believe if you want to mod and add HP, you can't cut corners, pay a little bit more, do it once, do it right.....I gained 45rwtq in the midband from my LG's.
.......as they say, headers are a good foundation for all future mods.
when I got my first vette, 02 C5 vert and saw a set of borlas 1,000
I cringed comparing it to when I bought a set of flowmasters and welded them in my mustang all for 300 bucks, it's not the Corvette tax, it's R&D+production vs units need to be sold to break even.
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Well, that might be right for you, but not everybody, right? Not everybody buys LG's and not everybody pays $500 for a tune. Some folks dont even tune after headers. Like I said, $1650 + $320 for Xcelerator (Honker clone), $600 for 17" BFG's with 2 like new C5 Z06 front wheels mounted/balanced=$2570 with $430 left over put in the bank. Oh, am experienced enough to tune my install of headers...its not that complicated nor requires an engineering degree. Lots of folks DIY tuning with great success.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Southlake Texas
Please be sure to highlight where I BASHED the Z06 manifolds or mader fun of them. I called it out and provided a reason I think it may not be true. I said I didnt beleive it, gave my reasons, and asked for proof. Sorry if the mod of the day gets called once in a while. I also dont believe the claim of Corsa that states their exhaust nets 14hp on my car. Zero was seen by most tuners. I have LG headers and 3" pipes going to 3" Z06 cat back. I dont feel a thing from the exhaust. I know forum member that got 2hp at peak using the Z06 exhaust with 3" pipes all the way back. I have some of the parts involved in the debate here.
LG headers on my car: 30HP. Lg headers on a Z06....30hp. If the headers made 15hp on the Z06 I could see it. If the LG's made 50hp on a 6 liter C6, I could see it but if going from the Z06 manifolds to headers gets the same amount on my car as a Z06 something doesnt add up. I csan provide about 20 more dyno sheets from Z06's netting the exact same amount of power as a 6 liter C6. They are all over the LG site.
Now if the guy that did the swap got 15-20 with a tune then it makes sense. If he got 370rwhp without a tune then I will be the first guy to recommend the mod to someone on a budget. Until then, dont be offended when someone doesnt want to drink the cool-aid.
LG headers on my car: 30HP. Lg headers on a Z06....30hp. If the headers made 15hp on the Z06 I could see it. If the LG's made 50hp on a 6 liter C6, I could see it but if going from the Z06 manifolds to headers gets the same amount on my car as a Z06 something doesnt add up. I csan provide about 20 more dyno sheets from Z06's netting the exact same amount of power as a 6 liter C6. They are all over the LG site.
Now if the guy that did the swap got 15-20 with a tune then it makes sense. If he got 370rwhp without a tune then I will be the first guy to recommend the mod to someone on a budget. Until then, dont be offended when someone doesnt want to drink the cool-aid.
I have no problem with someone questioning a modification, but it can be done in a nicer way.
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St. Jude Donor '08
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1865491
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From: Cranston RI
I don't really think it is fair comparing 100k BMW's parts with 40k Corvette's parts. I have a supercharged BMW 330i (list 47k for e46BMW 330i zhp) and paid $1195 for headers and another 180 for Random Tech Hi-flow cats. I do think $1895 for LG's (with cats) are expensive. What about the x-pipe? Add the $300 for that. Install and tune and you are paying 3k for 30 hp. Installing a supercharger seems to be a better deal at 7k installed for 150hp. My .02.
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yes, LG's was my prefrence, even though they are about $500 more than Kooks
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1865491
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1865491
I don't cut corners trying to save pennies on my street tires, so why would I on a set of wheels and tires I would be running on ***** out. I want new wheels and tires for that. The peace of mind is worth the extra $200.00 that might cost me over a used set of racing wheels and tires.
But now you may see it differently, and I can respect that.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Feb 24, 2008 at 09:55 PM.
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The KOOKS are good, but the mid range torque with the LGs is just tough to beat.
I don't cut corners trying to save pennies on my street tires, so why would I on a set of wheels and tires I would be running on ***** out. I want new wheels and tires for that. The peace of mind is worth the extra $200.00 that might cost me over a used set of racing wheels and tires. But now you may see it differently, and I can respect that.
I don't cut corners trying to save pennies on my street tires, so why would I on a set of wheels and tires I would be running on ***** out. I want new wheels and tires for that. The peace of mind is worth the extra $200.00 that might cost me over a used set of racing wheels and tires. But now you may see it differently, and I can respect that.
Also, many would agree Kooks are tough to beat on the strip and LG are tough to beat on the street and road racing track. I would have bought LG's but they have no solution for selling Hi Flo Cats only (without X pipe) to hook up to Corsa H-Pipe for the A6, which Kooks does.
Last edited by siffert; Feb 24, 2008 at 10:13 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Phoenix AZ
No one "talked me into it". My intent was to move the exhaust I had to a new Z for track use and put the A6 back to stock sound levels because it will be used solely as a street car. The headers were noisy, I like street cars quiet. As it turned out the headers wouldn't work on the Z, so I worked out a deal with LG to exchange them for Z headers. And as another member pointed out, they are not cast.
Melting Slicks
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From: Goleta California
Academy awards are boring. This thread is way better. I am selling my 06 C6, anyone interested in a set of used AR headers? When I get my new vette, I am trying to swing a Z06, I will put LG's on it so maybe I will have a set of manifolds for someone that wants to put them on their car!
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St. Jude Donor '08
I don't really think it is fair comparing 100k BMW's parts with 40k Corvette's parts. I have a supercharged BMW 330i (list 47k for e46BMW 330i zhp) and paid $1195 for headers and another 180 for Random Tech Hi-flow cats. I do think $1895 for LG's (with cats) are expensive. What about the x-pipe? Add the $300 for that. Install and tune and you are paying 3k for 30 hp. Installing a supercharger seems to be a better deal at 7k installed for 150hp. My .02.
160 Tstat
CAI
free-flow cat back
'08's have an x-pipe from factory
45rwtq gain, and thats w/4.10s that take 10 back
........and gains like that are equivalent to a cam...................
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '08
Academy awards are boring. This thread is way better. I am selling my 06 C6, anyone interested in a set of used AR headers? When I get my new vette, I am trying to swing a Z06, I will put LG's on it so maybe I will have a set of manifolds for someone that wants to put them on their car!
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
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From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
The huge differance here come's when the inspection is done and they take a look at the cats. The Z06 system looks OEM, while a long tube header/cats is an easy giveaway. You could do this test at 100 inspection stations and unless they were extremely familiar with the Corvette (as you are) none of them would pick up on that it wasn't factory stock, imho.
So what happens later this year when MA does my inspection? I'll pray they overlook I have headers or think ARH's are stock....but if I get nabbed and fail, I'll have to throw on either stock LS2 headers (garbage) or go with Z06 manifolds/cats and try it again. One thing is for certain, if I do fail with the ARH, I'm done buying/using LT's and will be looking for something more stealthy that is better then stock....Z06 manifolds/cats fit that bill.
And just be be clear, I wouldn't see near the gains I got with ARH's but I'll take 10-15rwhp over the stock iron cast crap.
So what happens later this year when MA does my inspection? I'll pray they overlook I have headers or think ARH's are stock....but if I get nabbed and fail, I'll have to throw on either stock LS2 headers (garbage) or go with Z06 manifolds/cats and try it again. One thing is for certain, if I do fail with the ARH, I'm done buying/using LT's and will be looking for something more stealthy that is better then stock....Z06 manifolds/cats fit that bill.
And just be be clear, I wouldn't see near the gains I got with ARH's but I'll take 10-15rwhp over the stock iron cast crap.
If the mod in fact gave 10-15rwhp which I doubt based upon examining the 20rwhp guy's results. He got 378 with a CAI, Tune, ported TB, ported intake manifold, and a cat back exhaust swap. Ported manifold get 10-11 all the time as documented by numberous actual dyno tests with this as the only mod and a tune gets 12-15. Since cars baseline at 350-355 I dont see where this guy got 20rwhp as he says it feels like unless he meant 20rwhp from all the mods.
Thread Starter
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From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
I have no idea why you keep ignoring my posts but maybe the third time is the charm? Look at the ls1tech link that was posted in the other thread. There is a dyno there.
Here is a link to it: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/attach...6&d=1199325097
Here is a link to it: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/attach...6&d=1199325097
Further the cause of this thread is someone stated that the Z06 exhaust gives 80% of the gains from a header with 1/3 the cost. NO WAY.
Last edited by SpinMonster; Feb 25, 2008 at 01:46 AM.
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If the mod in fact gave 10-15rwhp which I doubt based upon examining the 20rwhp guy's results. He got 378 with a CAI, Tune, ported TB, ported intake manifold, and a cat back exhaust swap. Ported manifold get 10-11 all the time as documented by numberous actual dyno tests with this as the only mod and a tune gets 12-15. Since cars baseline at 350-355 I dont see where this guy got 20rwhp as he says it feels like unless he meant 20rwhp from all the mods.
I see your point though, the best way and hopefully more people do this, is take a stock car and add the Z06 manifolds only, compare results from there.
Last edited by Silver05GTO; Feb 25, 2008 at 01:49 AM.
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
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From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
When I started down the exhaust upgrade path I did not have a specific HP increase in mind. I traded a cam and springs for a used LS7 Z06 exhasut system, excluding the mufflers. Because the Z06 NPP mufflers are pretty good, the Z06 guys tend to keep them. After looking at the various mufflers for the Z06 system I selected the Corsa Sports for the Z06 exhaust. I was worried about the dreaded A6 drone. With the LS7 Z06 exhaust system with the Corsa Z06 Sport mufflers you have a pure and complete 3 inch system front to back . I had my 2006 A6 dyno tuned to the same level, on the same dyno, by the same tuner, pre and post Z06 exhaust install. The tuner at NRP and I guessed that I would pick up about 20 HP and were somewhat surprised at the 30 RWHP
. The K&N CAI car went from 343 to 373 RWHP. There were NO OTHER changes. The exhaust was designed for a high performance 7 liter engine. When you compare it to the exhaust of a 6 liter engine for the LS2, there should be no surprise that you pick up a bunch of power. There have been several Z06 drivers in the Corvette Club in Vegas that have put headers on their Z06's and only picked up a disappointing 10 RWHP or less. One of our club members added a cam first and then the headers. He only picked up 10 RWHP. I wish that I could post the dyno sheets but, being a junior member that is not possible. The numbers are real. I realize that sometimes BS gets put on these forums and should be viewed with a skeptical eye . But every once in a while there are some upgrades that work better than expected. I think GM built a superb factory exhaust system for the Z06. In fact they are using the same exhaust system on the new ZR1. That should tell you a little bit about it's capabilities. I do not think they would put a poor system on a $100,000 plus Corvette. One more point--Welcome back Spin.
. I had my 2006 A6 dyno tuned to the same level, on the same dyno, by the same tuner, pre and post Z06 exhaust install. The tuner at NRP and I guessed that I would pick up about 20 HP and were somewhat surprised at the 30 RWHP . The K&N CAI car went from 343 to 373 RWHP. There were NO OTHER changes. The exhaust was designed for a high performance 7 liter engine. When you compare it to the exhaust of a 6 liter engine for the LS2, there should be no surprise that you pick up a bunch of power. There have been several Z06 drivers in the Corvette Club in Vegas that have put headers on their Z06's and only picked up a disappointing 10 RWHP or less. One of our club members added a cam first and then the headers. He only picked up 10 RWHP. I wish that I could post the dyno sheets but, being a junior member that is not possible. The numbers are real. I realize that sometimes BS gets put on these forums and should be viewed with a skeptical eye . But every once in a while there are some upgrades that work better than expected. I think GM built a superb factory exhaust system for the Z06. In fact they are using the same exhaust system on the new ZR1. That should tell you a little bit about it's capabilities. I do not think they would put a poor system on a $100,000 plus Corvette. One more point--Welcome back Spin.The ststement that a Z06 got 10rwhp with headers is far from reality. The LG website posts plenty of the dyno sheets of Z06's that go there for headers and a tune and come away in the 40 range. In all statistical data there will always be the stray single case. It isnt hurting your case by it being there though.
Would you call it 80% of the header's gains?
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
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From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
A couple points from the entire thread: 30 to 35 hp gain with LG headers ALONE on a Z06? No way. We tried them, tuned the whee out of them and gained 2 rwhp peak. The Z06 exhaust system is very good, it's basically a shortie header from GM. Now the LG's being long tubes did pick up 15 ft lbs of midrange torque over the stock system. The American Racing headers btw, with the bigger primaries, picked up 4 peak rwhp but only 13 ft lps of midrange torque. Both did just as expected. Anyone who changes the exhaust to longtubes on a Z06 and gets lots of additional peak power is changing something else at the same time, like adding a CAI, and claiming the total change is 20+ rwhp.
Also, from LS1Tech: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=836608
He got 30 rwhp from changing to a Z06 exhaust system.
Also, from LS1Tech: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=836608
He got 30 rwhp from changing to a Z06 exhaust system.
Over the Christmas holiday I installed a 2007 C6 Z06 exhaust system (manifolds, Cats, H pipe) plus Corsa Z06 3 inch Sports on my 2006 C6 A6. I did a pre and post dyno run on a Dynojet 248 for comparasion. The car was tuned (A/R ratio, timing, etc) to the same level for each dyno pull. Pre Z06 exhasut was 343 rwhp and post was 373 rwhp. There are a bunch of Z06 guys putting headers on the Vettes. The shop I use had 4 pairs just collecting dust. However, the Z06 guys tend to keep their NPP mufflers, but Corsa, B&B and Borla all make 3 inch Z06 mufflers. The installation was not difficult. I bought GM LS7 manifold gaskets and some O2 sensor wire extensions for the forward O2 sensors. The clearance around the A6 transmission is tighter than I want, so I will get some minor exhaust pipe work. Manual transmission C6's should be no problem at all. Bottom line. I think this is a good 30 hp mod for C6 Vettes if you can get your hands on a discarded Z06 exhaust system:nod:.This is a bone stock Z06:
This is ussually do to working on a car and disconnecting the PCM during the work. It effectlively erases all previously sampled data concerning air flow and fueling. It makes the car have a lower baseline. If he just went around driving for a bit without changing any parts it would come back up to the same 460rwhp eveyone gets. A tuned Z06 with no mods is in the 470rwhp range. Changing only the air cleaner and having a tune netted JIMMAN 486rwhp on his Z06.
No way for a 30-35HP gain with headers on a Z06? Here are 2 and the first one was without a tune since the tuning ability wasnt out yet:
This guy having 473rwhp is barely breaking what a bone stock Z06 does with no mods.
I couldnt have disproved the Z06 manifolds better myself.
On a side note, the swap to the corsa exhaust which isnt as you say "no other changes", disappointed me since I would have expected a few poines from that system being it has a flow through design and 3" pipes all the way.
Last edited by SpinMonster; Feb 25, 2008 at 02:22 AM.