Guys, for the ones that have the gears, how do you like the 4:10's? How about the one's with a supercharger? I talked with Chuck CoW about this and he says that the gear change would be awesome! He believes that 4:10's are one of the best, if not the best, mods going. I'v been trying to decide on the 4:10's or the ECS supercharger kit, actually beating myself up over it! I know the gears are cheaper and what not, but did they give you the expected SOTP kick? Everyone knows that a SC will give you a big seat of the pants kick, but do you feel the gears are close to giving the same result/feel as a supercharger? Maybe gears and FAST intake or gears and headers would be better than FI, as I really do not want to cut up pieces of my car required for the SC kit to be installed. Plus, I would still have a really strong car without all of the traction issues. Then again, I think that I would really love the FI also. So forum, which should I do?? What do you say Chuck? Thanks all!!

 

If you use the search feature, you'll find this has been discussed many times, and you'll find lots of info....but a short answer is - yes, they provide an amazing SOTP difference- it will "FEEL" like you added another 50 hp or so - it all depends on what your final plans are for your car...do you plan to stay on the street? Track it? Road course? How deep is your budget? A set of 4.10s is a blast and much cheaper than FI....if you are really worried about "cutting up" your car as you say, do some research by going to a few meets and go for a ride with a few cars with different configs.....that's what originally made up mind with the 4.10s. I was with a friend when he had picked up his C6 with the CoW 4.10s. We drove about 1 mile, my mind was made up...I had them installed two days later.

 

So with the manual 6 speed whats the tach read at 70 mph, with the 4.10's.

I was thinking about a gear change also. I am along the lines of the 3.73's though.

I suppose the speedo can be corrected, right?

 

The speed is measured off the axle so no speedo correction is needed.
The easy answer for RPM at 70 is that its about the same RPM as it would be using 5th gear with 3.42s, so 4.10s makes 6th gear usable.

 

Nice thing about getting the gears is that if you do want another big increase in power then you can add a cam and headers later on.

 

With stock tires and a NON Z51 car 4.10's will cruise at 70 MPH in 6th gear at 1,950 rpm's.

With stock tires and a Z51 trans the car will cruise at 70 mph in 6th gear at only 2,050 rpm's.

Only about 450 rpm's over stock and will actually put you right at the bottom of the torque curve on the highway.....

Get 4.10's.....You'll be glad you did.

Chuck CoW

 

HERE WE GO.......

While supercharging can be fun for the right application, person, budget I would have to argue that more people I've spoken to with superchargers would not make the same choice the second time around.....

Clearly, the guy that sells superchargers is gonna pick a fight with you when you say S/C is not your best choice cause it kicks him between the legs...(and in the pocket...) Obviously, he would surely die defending the "superchargers are best" sales pitch....

But, most would agree that they got sucked into a S/C by the promise of "big numbers" and the cool factor associated with them, but when it all boils down....many guys get into it only seeing the big numbers side of it and neglected to see the "reality" side of it where supercharging can hardly be called "maintainance free" for most people and the excessive fuel consumption and other very obvious "side effects" or consequences of going F/I.

Some "side effects" that might be overlooked by the consumer when blinded by the "promise of the HUGE power sales pitch" when considering a supercharger might be......

1) MAJOR expense as compared to a rear diff.

2) lack of low end power.

3) Forfeiture of any type of power train warranty.

4) ongoing maintainance

5) loss of fuel mileage.

6) far fewer options for qualified service techs in your area.

7) more particular tuning.

8) expected, lowered life expectancy of the engine and related drivetrain

9) absolute NEED to maintain adequate fuel octane when traveling.

10) increased expense when attempting to "return to stock"

11) reduction in resale value resulting from potential purchasers that might be leary of a vehicle that was abused and or just simply significantly narrowing the market for a potential second hand purchaser due to the S/C

12) potential to "overpower" the vehicle resulting in secondary expenses like BETTER TIRES, BETTER COOLING SYSTEM, BETTER CLUTCH, STRONGER DRIVETRAIN, IMPROVED FUEL SYSTEM, and other systems strained by the S/C that the customer did not FACTOR IN to their "extended budget" when considering forced induction.

Honestly, driving a car with a blower is fun....I, like most of you,....think it's cool. I also know what's involved expense wise..and if I were to own a blower car, and have a problem with it....I OWN A CORVETTE SHOP and can fix it virtually for free. Likely, you won't be as lucky as me or get off as easy.

Don't get me wrong....Blowers are cool. I do actually sell and recommend them for certain customers.... BUT, my point is that....They are not for everybody.

It's like matching a man...with the right woman for marriage or whatever.....Lord knows, most of us made the wrong choice more than a few times....Usually because we focused too closely on the "pop (0)(0) features" rather than the practical.....

My point is.....Use your head. Know what you're getting into....weigh the options....realize that the "face value" price of a S/C is only a small part of what it's going to cost you ongoing. (remember your first wife that is still costing you even after she's gone...)

The reason EVERYONE wants to improve the performance of their vette is cause when you buy it...IT SUCKS.

It's not that the engine dosen't have sufficient power to have fun with.....

The problem is that the REAR AXLE RATIO is completely WRONG for the way most of you use the car. Sure, increasing the engines output can help....but at great expense and compromise.

A rear diff with a better axle ratio will ALWAYS BE your BEST VALUE. (notice that I underlined that word)

AGAIN, Supercharging can be fun....and for the right person and budget.....It's a really cool option.

But, please understand....My point here is not that they worthless. I love em.....

I just don't think they are right for most people.

I TOTALLY BELIEVE that a more appropriate (higher numerically) rear axle ratio is more rewarding, and FAR LESS COSTLY (in more ways than one) and a much better choice when considering all options.

Choose Wisely....
Chuck CoW

 

Chuck, you gotta make a vid (on closed circut track ) of a stock 3.42 vs 4.10 C6 comparison. I think if people saw the distance just gears make between both it would convince people even more. With gears the acceleration gain cannot be seen in a dyno sheet which probably turns off some, but to see a 4.10 car pull another 3.42 stocker might sway those on the fence with a viewable result.

 

I wasnt going to comment in each of the threads posted by the OP, but here we go (again).

 

I had Chuck tune my car yesterday after discussing this very topic I'm sold on getting gears vs. the NOS Kit I planned on installing (which will be on E-Bay BTW ) I'm also going to do the LG LTs & a F.A.S.T Intake when I do the gears! For my car IMO its the best option for me after weighing all the pros vs Cons Good luck on whatever you decide

 

I've got both COW 410's and an ECS blower:


They are both awesome mods, really enjoy them both and think that they compliment each other very well. I've never had any maintenance issues with either one, and also note that my highway mileage actually improved with the blower (obviously that changes when I mash the go peddle )

 

4.10 is a good gear, I run several 4.10`s and two 4.56`s. Your not going to hurt a engine with this type of change. If you think so, the engine wasn`t any good in the first place. These tall gears, 2`s and low 3`s were never a consideration when the big HP cars of the 60`s were being driven on the streets and raced on the weekends. You will love it if your interested in a quick Vette.

 

I could easily say that a person that only sells gears will push gears over FI, but you know that already.

As everyone knows ECS sells not only FI, but NA, Gears, bolt ons, etc all depending on what the customer wants and what the customer planned usage is going to be. As an example ECS would not push 4.10 gears on a person that does HPDEs over suspension, brakes, tires, H/C setup which I know from experience will be much better for that person. The word FI would not come out of my mouth either for a HPDE setup.

Just for the record my comparison was based on the OP stating which one will be faster. My answer is HP over gears whether that be FI or NA. As proven 3 tenths is not bad in the 1/4 mile, but 1.3 seconds is a hell of a lot more. Yes it did cost more money for the 1.3 seconds, but if the OP is asking which one I assume that money is not an issue and I also assume that Vette people are smart enough to know that going faster costs money.

I am not going to take the time to argue each one of your points. I can tell you that FI has been very reliable though and if not then why is the ZR1 going to be FI?

And Finally for anyone to say that a stock corvette power SUCKs is smack in the face to all corvette owners. I ran my stock vette in the 1/4 mile and on road courses and was able to beat up on most stock cars. Personally I think a stock corvette is plenty fast and has plenty power. I also personally know tons of people that have never done a power Mod in their life and are very happy with the stock corvette.

If you look at the whole picture of vettes being sold only a few every have power mods done.

 

06.Z51.MontRed.Vert, not to put you in a tight spot, but which would you do if it was the only mod you were going to do? If you want to PM the answer, that would be great. I know you probably do not want to favor one vendor over another, as both ECS and CoW are great! Thanks!!

 

No personal attacks. You guys know better.

Back on point or this thread goes bye-bye.

 

Children, children, children.. enough

We as a shop are very versed in all different applications. I have personally owned H/C cars, twin turbo cars, Supercharged cars and big cube stroker cars. I will be happy to take whatever time is needed to go through options with customers and help them decide what fits their driving style and well as budget when choosing a package.

Robbi, I am sorry this turned into a mess.. Feel free to call me anytime and I will be happy to help you with any questions you have.

 

 

Here is an install of the ECS Kit that shows the potential

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...&highlight=ecs

 

bump!

 

I'm skeptical of the whole gears thing, I'm afraid. An additional 400-500rpm in each gear is hardly a lot. Maybe I'm not understanding it correctly, but for the expense and hassle involved, I don't think it's a great mod. Also, fuel consumption is going to suffer and the engine will constantly be turning higher RPM's on the freeway, etc.

Maybe it's a worthwhile mod after all bolt-ons have already been done if you don't want to start modding engine internals.

Cheers,
Ian.