Just won a tune from RPM (Charlie) and was wondering if street tuning is better than dyno tuning and why. Looking forward to the upgrade in performance! It will be on an LS3-A6...

Money goes to St. Judes so everyone wins here!!!

 

Both. You need to verify what you did on the dyno by logging some runs on the street. Part throttle can only be done correctly on the street IMO.

 

Street tune is better, it puts the car under load so you can get an accurate tune. Dyno's are good to tell you your numbers, and possibly see where peak hp is, at what afr.

Although most tuners just tune for a canned AFR regardless.

The exception to this rule is the mustang dyno which actually puts your car under load.

 

street tune is better than dyno

Chuck tuned my car on the street, then we put it on a dyno just to see if we missed anything, Chuck couldnt squeeze another pony out out on a dyno

 

Charlie uses an Eddy Current brake dyno that allows any load to be placed at any RPM on your car; this is a LOT more thorough than any street tune. When he tuned my car he tuned for full throttle and part throttle on the dyno, then took it out on the street for datalogging to make sure everything was perfect. And it was. Charlie's tune has been the best mod I've ever done to any vehicle I've ever owned.

 

How can you say this as an absolute?

You got a great tune DVL, but you needed to rent the dyno to verify. Another way of looking at it was that your tuner didn't have the capability to get more since he isn't as familiar with using dyno's. Just playing DVL's advocate (pun intended), not trying to knock Chuck at all. Another way to look at this is that not all tuners may be as good to just do a street tune. You can't say a street tune is the best without knowing the tuner, the conditions, and how the car is expected to be used.

As for what is the best tune, a fully loaded dyno that can hold the car in any RPM range under any load condition for indefinate period of time, followed by a street tune for verification.

If I had to choose one though, standard dyno or street......I would go street for a daily driver car.

 

Think about it like this, will you be driving the car on some rollers spinning, or on the street? The street is the actual conditions your car will be driven on, so there is no better place to tune it.

However if you are one of those dyno queens which all they care about is HP numbers, then you need the dyno

 

Very poor analogy.
Let me give you a better one.
My first car was street tuned. It worked great. One day I decided to do a top speed run. Somewhere around 7,700RPMs in 5th gear the engine experienced detonation and was completely trashed.
Why? Because there is no way in hell a tuner could have experienced that kind of a load on the street during tuning. Street tunes are done in maybe 3rd or 4rth gear for a relatively narrow range of loads; you tune on a level road, then try to go WOT up a hill and now your car is experiencing a level of load that it did not during the tune.
A roller dyno is a similarly poor tuning device. An eddy current brake dyno on the other hand can go through every single possible load/rpm combo and will give you a much more thorough tune.

Ultimately your tune is only as good as the tuner who programmed it. That said though, an eddy current brake dyno is a much better tuning tool than a few pulls at one or two gears in a level road.

 

Every car needs to be checked on both, but those who say dyno's are not accurate either are referring to a std non load bearing dyno, or do not know enough about tuning to properly give an opinion IMO.

Let Charlie do his magic on his load bearing dyno and you will not be dissatisfied I'm sure. I don't care who is tuning the car, there is NO WAY you can ever hold the car in every load cell, under perfect conditions, and get 100% peak HP from every cell like you can on the proper dyno.

Everyone goes right for the top end numbers to see if your tune is on, but the major gains will be in the mid range and timing maps, those who say otherwise most likely do not own a dyno......

 

Serioulsy you think someone i going to run your car in 5th gear on a dyno at 7700rpms? Not to mention you do realize that it uses the same lookup table in 5th gear, that it does in 2nd gear, which you can hit on the street?

 

You are missing the point. The load in 2nd is MUCH lower than the load in 5th because 2nd gear goes by so fast and there is so little aerodynamic drag to overcome. With a load bearing dyno you can place as much load in any gear as you like.

 

Considering most shops don't have a load bearing dyno, the dyno tune would be worst. I did say on a mustang dyno you could get a decient tune.

Most shops around here do not have load bearing dynos, maybe its different where you live.

 

Charlie is the man. Just let him do his thing. He has plenty of experience and takes pride in his work.

 

I live in So Cal; most tuners here have real dynos... In fact, Charlie tuned my car, on his eddy brake dyno Search my username for the thread.

BTW you realize that the ONLY way you can get something even remotely resembling a real tune via datalogging in the street is to commit several FELONIES, right (at least here in CA anything over 100mph is a felony)?

 

Wow another Street tune versus Dyno tune.

For us having Load Bearing Dynos - well you all know ECS has the best equipment available If you want proof of that try to hold a car at specfic rpm for 30 mins on the street - impossible.

If there is not load bearing dyno than a combination of Street and Dyno tune would be the next best.

After that IMHO I would say Street Tune, then Dyno tune, then mail order tune. I put dyno before mail order because the people doing the dyno tune are doing it for your specific car. A mail order tune is generic by nature. Sure we can custom do a tune based on your mods, but it is based off experience of tuning and not car specific.

BTW - to the OP you are in good hands with Charlie. Very knowledgeable tuner.

Congrats

 

Charlie is simply the best. Enjoy the increases performance in your car.

 

Not impossible during Friday rush hour in Phoenix. We can sit perfectly still at an idle for 30 minutes before the traffic moves again. No problem.

 

Actually Chuck and Devil went to ICS and i believe that they are pretty familiar with their own dyno. Chuck had used their dyno numerous times and i am sure that what the Devil said ( ) is accurate because it was also confirmed by the dyno operator from ICS.

Actually i have to disagree, no disrespect, Chuck CoW is really that good as a tuner, keep in mind that i see his tuning results and people's reaction to these results every day ( no exaggeration) oh and C6Devil does know who the tuner is (just jk ).
The owner of the car is present at the time of tuning and this procedure is a "collaboration" between Chuck and the driver therefore he is able to custom tailor the tune to the driver specific wants, also, what is being discussed is what the customer expects form the car and how he is planing to use it.

No comment here but a question: at what point, in every day, weekend or sunny day driving, is the car being kept at the same RPM range for an indefinite amount of time (other than probably being stuck in bumper to bumper traffic)?

Good choice

Now since we kind of hijacked this poor man's thread with our debate :o
all i have left to add is that i see more and more people, slowly moving away from the absolute and definitive firm belivers of the "dyno is better that street" attitude (some of you are on this thread) and start thinking about the car's main application which is, to be driven on the street and not dyno, and, tune accordingly.

In the end, whether you go to the track, or you drive on the street, dyno tuning will always and forever be a simulation at best and nothing more.

FireEyes

 

That's easy: The answer to that is because anyone with $500 can buy HP Tuners and become a "Street Tuner", whereas to run a professional tuning shop with an eddy current brake dyno you need to spend around $100,000 on the dyno and pay all the bills associated with running a shop.

Once again:
To get anything resembling a proper datalog on the street you will need to commit several felonies. A full throttle run through 4rth gear will yield a fair amount of useful data but also put you at a speed where you are going straight to jail if caught. A few runs below the speed limit will yield very little useful data for tuning.
No street log can adress all possible load points. A brake dyno can.

I have no doubt that some tuners can do an incredible job on the street, but it is dangerous, illegal, and uncessary, and I would still expect that those tuners could do an even more thorough job if they used a brake dyno and then checked the tune on the street.

 

I'm perfectly happy with the factory tune for street and highway use, as it keeps me and my blushing bride out of trouble for the most part. However, I still tune for WOT at the track and yeah, I do that sometimes on the street momentarily. The dyno simulation allows me to tune for the strip without having to be there or be illegal on the street.