Magnetic Selective Ride Control - How does this work?
Race Director
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From: NC
I believe the poster was just saying to use the same tires on both suspensions to make it an "Apples to Apples" comparison. There is little doubt that much of the Z51's "stick" is due to the Supercar tires.
Jimmy
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From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
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Racer
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From: albany or
Sorry, that entirely misses the point of the F55. Just because can't "outhandle" a Z51 car (BTW, a good driver in an F55 could whip a lesser driver in a Z51 -- F55 in Sport is not *that* far away from Z51), that doesn't mean that F55 is not any good. The purpose of F55 (at least in the Corvette application), isn't to provide "uber-race-track-handling performance" -- in the Corvette world it's aimed at an entirely different objective.
To the OP:
The Z51 suspension is strongly biased to track/auto-x performance, while remaining streetable (not perfect, but pretty dang good for an OE setup).
The F55 does two primary things:
(1) it provides the user with the benefits of two suspensions in one, one setting with a softer bias for comfort for folks that want it (I like a firm suspension as much as the next guy, but the war zone that is labeled Constitution Ave. in Wash, DC *forces* me to switch to soft mode, just to keep my spine aligned!), while also letting the driver select a "near Z51" level of firmness for those occasions when they want tighter handling -- a sort of no- (or at least little-) compromise system for *real world* roads, all without the need to reach under the car to make any adjustments;
(2) it provides improved body control, and essentially, safer handling by responding to conditions 1000/sec -- watch the C5 video showing the base C5 go airborne over whoops, followed by the F55 car staying in contact with the ground, followed by the two going around turns, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
I'm not saying you *should* buy the F55, what I'm saying is that it does have its place, and you should test drive both before you make up your mind.
FWIW1: One way to get the F55 closer to the Z51 setup is to install Z51 swaybars -- they're cheap (I think I paid $178 for the C5's bars from Gene at GM Parts Warehouse).
FWIW2: I have F55 on my C5. When I was looking at a C6, I drove both Z51 and F55 -- hoping that I'd find the Z51 good enough for *my* needs/desires that I could save the $$$ for the F55. My C6 has F55 -- and the instant soft/firm switchability is worth every penny to me. I have no idea whether you would have made the same choice in the same situation, but the point is you owe it to yourself to try both, so you aren't always looking back in hindsight and asking yourself whether you should have bought the other setup.
HTH!
Mark
To the OP:
The Z51 suspension is strongly biased to track/auto-x performance, while remaining streetable (not perfect, but pretty dang good for an OE setup).
The F55 does two primary things:
(1) it provides the user with the benefits of two suspensions in one, one setting with a softer bias for comfort for folks that want it (I like a firm suspension as much as the next guy, but the war zone that is labeled Constitution Ave. in Wash, DC *forces* me to switch to soft mode, just to keep my spine aligned!), while also letting the driver select a "near Z51" level of firmness for those occasions when they want tighter handling -- a sort of no- (or at least little-) compromise system for *real world* roads, all without the need to reach under the car to make any adjustments;
(2) it provides improved body control, and essentially, safer handling by responding to conditions 1000/sec -- watch the C5 video showing the base C5 go airborne over whoops, followed by the F55 car staying in contact with the ground, followed by the two going around turns, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
I'm not saying you *should* buy the F55, what I'm saying is that it does have its place, and you should test drive both before you make up your mind.
FWIW1: One way to get the F55 closer to the Z51 setup is to install Z51 swaybars -- they're cheap (I think I paid $178 for the C5's bars from Gene at GM Parts Warehouse).
FWIW2: I have F55 on my C5. When I was looking at a C6, I drove both Z51 and F55 -- hoping that I'd find the Z51 good enough for *my* needs/desires that I could save the $$$ for the F55. My C6 has F55 -- and the instant soft/firm switchability is worth every penny to me. I have no idea whether you would have made the same choice in the same situation, but the point is you owe it to yourself to try both, so you aren't always looking back in hindsight and asking yourself whether you should have bought the other setup.
HTH!
Mark
people are getting too butt hurt about me not picking a F55. I gave every reason why I didn't pick it. More money for less handling and I did not want to mod the suspention as I don't care about a soft setting. also the tranny raitos. almost everyone so far when they talk about the f55 they talk about adding this or changing that. I was giving my opinion on the car as ordered.
I dare you to find any where I said it is not "any good"
I said it is not nessesary IMO. that does not mean bad unless you translate it spanish, then french then back to english again maybe.
if the F55 came with better tires and z51 sways and was still withing similar price I would have bough it but as we all know it does not.
apples vs apples is z51 vs f55. once you mod the car you are not comparing the same package. it is no longer an F55 it is a moded corvette. I mean why is a F55 with different parts apples vs apples. let me spend that same money on my car as well then it is apples vs apples. if you go buy $178 sways and $1700 tires + 300 for the kit. let the z51 car spend $2178 and that is apples vs apples.
I have already said in my previous posts that I do not know the full potential of the active handling system but in stock vs stock configuraton it will have more grip.
money is money. I chose what I chose based on my opinions I wanted the 45k I spent to be it on power and handling so I picked z51 and I gave my opinion why. like I said before. IMO means in my opion. now if your a person who like the soft ride selection or wants to mod your suspention then obviously we have diffenet opinions.
no I you read what I actually wrote and can find anywhere where I say the F55 is bad then I will eat crow.
For the record if you read my posts I say I think anybody should go with one of the two options I just picked the z51 for x,y, z reasons.
Last edited by hognutz; Jun 27, 2008 at 01:19 AM.
Racer
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From: albany or
here is blurb for corvette musem.
The ZR1 is built on the same aluminum-intensive chassis as the Corvette Z06 and features similar independent SLA front and rear suspensions, with aluminum upper and lower control arms. Where the ZR1 differs is the suspension tuning, which was optimized for the car's steamroller-wide front and rear tires.
Magnetic Selective Ride Control is standard and tuned specifically for the ZR1. The system's ability to deliver a compliant ride with nearly instantaneous damping adjustments enabled engineers to develop a surprisingly supple ride quality in a supercar that still delivers cornering grip of more than 1g.
From a high-performance perspective, Magnetic Selective Ride Control helps the rear axle remain planted during launch for smooth, hop-free acceleration. It also helps suppress axle movement when cornering on broken or uneven pavement.
now that post is very vauge on how the tuning differs. is just code, sensors, or actual shocks. I honestly don't know.
Instructor
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Now what would be nice is if F55 on the C6 could be tuned if one changes those variables, i.e. if one increase the spring rate, use larger roll bars and / or higher performance tires.
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the zr1 has completely different tuned suspention. It also as michelin pilot sport 2 tires.
here is blurb for corvette musem.
The ZR1 is built on the same aluminum-intensive chassis as the Corvette Z06 and features similar independent SLA front and rear suspensions, with aluminum upper and lower control arms. Where the ZR1 differs is the suspension tuning, which was optimized for the car's steamroller-wide front and rear tires.
Magnetic Selective Ride Control is standard and tuned specifically for the ZR1. The system's ability to deliver a compliant ride with nearly instantaneous damping adjustments enabled engineers to develop a surprisingly supple ride quality in a supercar that still delivers cornering grip of more than 1g.
From a high-performance perspective, Magnetic Selective Ride Control helps the rear axle remain planted during launch for smooth, hop-free acceleration. It also helps suppress axle movement when cornering on broken or uneven pavement.
now that post is very vauge on how the tuning differs. is just code, sensors, or actual shocks. I honestly don't know.
here is blurb for corvette musem.
The ZR1 is built on the same aluminum-intensive chassis as the Corvette Z06 and features similar independent SLA front and rear suspensions, with aluminum upper and lower control arms. Where the ZR1 differs is the suspension tuning, which was optimized for the car's steamroller-wide front and rear tires.
Magnetic Selective Ride Control is standard and tuned specifically for the ZR1. The system's ability to deliver a compliant ride with nearly instantaneous damping adjustments enabled engineers to develop a surprisingly supple ride quality in a supercar that still delivers cornering grip of more than 1g.
From a high-performance perspective, Magnetic Selective Ride Control helps the rear axle remain planted during launch for smooth, hop-free acceleration. It also helps suppress axle movement when cornering on broken or uneven pavement.
now that post is very vauge on how the tuning differs. is just code, sensors, or actual shocks. I honestly don't know.
BTW, are the supercar tires an option on non-Z51 cars?
Safety Car
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From: Providence Forge, VA
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12
Magnetorheological (MR) shock absorbers use tiny particles of iron suspended in a viscous fluid as the damping medium. A 12-volt electromagnet stationed on the outer surface of the flow channel acts as the valving mechanism; it constricts the flow of the fluid by magnetizing the iron particulates. The amount of constriction depends upon the energy fed into the magnet (usually a maximum of 5 amps). The fluid can go from free-flowing to rock-solid faster than you can read this sentence. Control algorithms take readings from sensors around the vehicle (yaw rate, steering angle, wheel speed, etc.) to determine the exact damping rate needed at any moment, and adjusts the magnetic field accordingly. This real-time damping ability alters the relationship between ride and handling by allowing the use of softer springs and smaller anti-roll bars without adversely affecting body motion and wheel control.
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Racer
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From: albany or
Yeah! I shouldn't have made a reference to the ZR1 as a suspension comparison to the C6. I was trying to make the point that taking the best parts of the Z51 and the F55 would produce a car superior to either of them. If the car mags tested that one, it'd be a lot different story.
BTW, are the supercar tires an option on non-Z51 cars?
BTW, are the supercar tires an option on non-Z51 cars?
wit the zr1 technology out there though it may open up some mods to a F55 car that makes it outstanding.
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From: NC
So...let me see if I can say something that will make sense.
Z51 is a track/autocross package and as such features stickier tires, stiffer springs/shocks/rollbars, closer ratios in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears. It will turn a faster lap time on a SMOOTH track because of the items listed above than an F55 car (I would bet that a STOCK F55 would turn a faster lap at Sebring than a Z51). F55 is computer controlled, almost infinitly adjustable shock system that deals with the C6's biggest flaw: mid corner bumps that send the back end out on base or Z51 cars do not affect an F55 car. F55 cars are MUCH more pleasant to drive quickly in the REAL world (I keep saying the same thing) because the car is much more planted. If you want big time stick (and are not bothered by the nervous rear end), buy a Z51. If you want a car with no handling surprises, buy an F55.
BTW, I'm not "butt hurt" that anyone buys a Z51, I'm happy you bought a corvette. I just want people to understand what F55 is (and does) and since I have spent considerable time with all three suspensions, this is based on real experience.
Jimmy
Z51 is a track/autocross package and as such features stickier tires, stiffer springs/shocks/rollbars, closer ratios in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears. It will turn a faster lap time on a SMOOTH track because of the items listed above than an F55 car (I would bet that a STOCK F55 would turn a faster lap at Sebring than a Z51). F55 is computer controlled, almost infinitly adjustable shock system that deals with the C6's biggest flaw: mid corner bumps that send the back end out on base or Z51 cars do not affect an F55 car. F55 cars are MUCH more pleasant to drive quickly in the REAL world (I keep saying the same thing) because the car is much more planted. If you want big time stick (and are not bothered by the nervous rear end), buy a Z51. If you want a car with no handling surprises, buy an F55.
BTW, I'm not "butt hurt" that anyone buys a Z51, I'm happy you bought a corvette. I just want people to understand what F55 is (and does) and since I have spent considerable time with all three suspensions, this is based on real experience.
Jimmy
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Man, what a fun thread,,, Think we should get a keg of beer and meet at my shop to continue this "discussion"
Most Real race cars are currently developing 2.5 to 5 cornering G's, so I would have to say what we are talking about is "just ok" street performance at one G or less.
Z51 is great, F55 does it another way, Neither system is race ready. so its gets back to real world roads with bumps, potholes, and what YOU want.
But, as stated, Please don't say F55 is just "soft or Hard" It adjusts itself constanty, real time on real roads.
Most Real race cars are currently developing 2.5 to 5 cornering G's, so I would have to say what we are talking about is "just ok" street performance at one G or less.
Z51 is great, F55 does it another way, Neither system is race ready. so its gets back to real world roads with bumps, potholes, and what YOU want.
But, as stated, Please don't say F55 is just "soft or Hard" It adjusts itself constanty, real time on real roads.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: albany or
I think people are thinking I am knocking active suspention but I am not really. there were just things the F55 package that I did not like. like I said before if the F55 package had stickier tires, sway bars, tranny ratio's I would have probably went that way.
I have alwasy disliked the .5 ratio on standard 6speeds. In my 2000 SS I could not really pull hills on i5 that easy in 6th. a wider ratio usually get you better acceleration. Ie quicker car stock vs stock. equal driving a z51 car is going to beat an f55 car in a drag race.
a f55 car with michelin pilots, 3.73 gears, f51 sways may be actually nicer than what I have but would have cost me more money and most likely voided my waranty.
so as you can see there was more to my decision that just the active suspention. I would have have put different gears in an f55 car.
maybe some day I will think this car has a nervous rear end. coming form my 01 mustang even with 2k in suspension mods the rear on this car just feel planted to me.
I have alwasy disliked the .5 ratio on standard 6speeds. In my 2000 SS I could not really pull hills on i5 that easy in 6th. a wider ratio usually get you better acceleration. Ie quicker car stock vs stock. equal driving a z51 car is going to beat an f55 car in a drag race.
a f55 car with michelin pilots, 3.73 gears, f51 sways may be actually nicer than what I have but would have cost me more money and most likely voided my waranty.
so as you can see there was more to my decision that just the active suspention. I would have have put different gears in an f55 car.
maybe some day I will think this car has a nervous rear end. coming form my 01 mustang even with 2k in suspension mods the rear on this car just feel planted to me.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: albany or
Man, what a fun thread,,, Think we should get a keg of beer and meet at my shop to continue this "discussion"
Most Real race cars are currently developing 2.5 to 5 cornering G's, so I would have to say what we are talking about is "just ok" street performance at one G or less.
Z51 is great, F55 does it another way, Neither system is race ready. so its gets back to real world roads with bumps, potholes, and what YOU want.
But, as stated, Please don't say F55 is just "soft or Hard" It adjusts itself constanty, real time on real roads.
Most Real race cars are currently developing 2.5 to 5 cornering G's, so I would have to say what we are talking about is "just ok" street performance at one G or less.
Z51 is great, F55 does it another way, Neither system is race ready. so its gets back to real world roads with bumps, potholes, and what YOU want.
But, as stated, Please don't say F55 is just "soft or Hard" It adjusts itself constanty, real time on real roads.
I am pretty sure they would laugh there *** off at this discusion. I was watching an indy race? it think and the g meter went over 3.5 and up to 4 I think and that was just a circle track. I about crapped I didn't think they pulled that on just an oval.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,969
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From: South Georgia
F55
I thought it was really cool - and seriously considered it. But, there were two determining factors in the equation:
1. Initial cost - Z51 is less expensive, with better swaybars, spring rates and oil coolers.
2. Upkeep cost - what happens when the car is out of warranty and the sensors go bad, or the dampners themselves take a crap? More money to replace than a Z51 car.
I ran into this problem with my F45 suspended C4. Damn shocks for the F45 are over 250 bucks each - for a 12 year old car. Forget trying to find the sensors if they go out. If you do find them, it will cost you an arm, leg and left ********.
Whose to say people don't run into the same problem with the C6 ten years down the road?
Now - I think the F55 would rock, but for what I do (street driven - occassional HPDE with the Porsche guys ) it was simpler to go with the Z51.
1. Initial cost - Z51 is less expensive, with better swaybars, spring rates and oil coolers.
2. Upkeep cost - what happens when the car is out of warranty and the sensors go bad, or the dampners themselves take a crap? More money to replace than a Z51 car.
I ran into this problem with my F45 suspended C4. Damn shocks for the F45 are over 250 bucks each - for a 12 year old car. Forget trying to find the sensors if they go out. If you do find them, it will cost you an arm, leg and left ********.
Whose to say people don't run into the same problem with the C6 ten years down the road?
Now - I think the F55 would rock, but for what I do (street driven - occassional HPDE with the Porsche guys ) it was simpler to go with the Z51.
Race Director
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From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Race Director
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From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
You will at about 10K miles.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,969
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From: South Georgia
Hoxxoh
Tires are not factored into my upkeep costs, they are disposable, just like brake rotors and pads. Those things are not designed to last long. And as you stated, the Goodyears don't last long at all
On the other hand, I would like my shocks to last a while, and when I can replace a shock for 100 bucks each versus 500 each, saves money for more tires!!!
Racer
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From: albany or
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
I will NOT be replacing the tires with Goodyears. Period. I will replace them with non-run flats from Toyo, Kumho or Michelin. I have AAA - so they can bring a replacement out to me, or wrecker the car home. That's what I pay them for.
Tires are not factored into my upkeep costs, they are disposable, just like brake rotors and pads. Those things are not designed to last long. And as you stated, the Goodyears don't last long at all
On the other hand, I would like my shocks to last a while, and when I can replace a shock for 100 bucks each versus 500 each, saves money for more tires!!!
Tires are not factored into my upkeep costs, they are disposable, just like brake rotors and pads. Those things are not designed to last long. And as you stated, the Goodyears don't last long at all
On the other hand, I would like my shocks to last a while, and when I can replace a shock for 100 bucks each versus 500 each, saves money for more tires!!!
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,969
Likes: 40
From: South Georgia