$3000 L92/LS3 conversion
_Sloth Whisperer_
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,369
Likes: 9
From: Malaysia Air Flight 370
Price on parts only? I'd happily bring my car your way to have the install completed in CO Springs, but considering I'm in the UK... wouldn't work so well.
I've got a 234/240, .598/.608 in the car now with a stock LS2 intake manifold, TB, and muffler section. Through ARH 1 7/8's, a catless 3" X, and a Vararam it made 420 and 390. So your setup should net me right about where you quoted, i.e. 470-ish?
I've got a 234/240, .598/.608 in the car now with a stock LS2 intake manifold, TB, and muffler section. Through ARH 1 7/8's, a catless 3" X, and a Vararam it made 420 and 390. So your setup should net me right about where you quoted, i.e. 470-ish?
Last edited by SlickShoes; Sep 21, 2008 at 12:34 AM.
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Price on parts only? I'd happily bring my car your way to have the install completed in CO Springs, but considering I'm in the UK... wouldn't work so well.
I've got a 234/240, .598/.608 in the car now with a stock LS2 intake manifold, TB, and muffler section. Through ARH 1 7/8's, a catless 3" X, and a Vararam it made 420 and 390. So your setup should net me right about where you quoted, i.e. 470-ish?
I've got a 234/240, .598/.608 in the car now with a stock LS2 intake manifold, TB, and muffler section. Through ARH 1 7/8's, a catless 3" X, and a Vararam it made 420 and 390. So your setup should net me right about where you quoted, i.e. 470-ish?
Huge cams dont work so well and would require you to reagin piston/valve clearance by reducing your compression. The biggest thing that fights these heads is tight lobe separations. If you have less than 114 it isnt a great match but can work ok. In addition, the 1 7/8 headers will only compound the low TQ issues associated with big cams and these heads.
Trick flow 225's would be better suited to your big cam. With the 12:1 compression it should be used with, you will be in the 500rwhp range. 12:1 with L92/LS3 heads is a pipe dream on a 6 liter.
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Price on parts only? I'd happily bring my car your way to have the install completed in CO Springs, but considering I'm in the UK... wouldn't work so well.
I've got a 234/240, .598/.608 in the car now with a stock LS2 intake manifold, TB, and muffler section. Through ARH 1 7/8's, a catless 3" X, and a Vararam it made 420 and 390. So your setup should net me right about where you quoted, i.e. 470-ish?
I've got a 234/240, .598/.608 in the car now with a stock LS2 intake manifold, TB, and muffler section. Through ARH 1 7/8's, a catless 3" X, and a Vararam it made 420 and 390. So your setup should net me right about where you quoted, i.e. 470-ish?
_Sloth Whisperer_
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,369
Likes: 9
From: Malaysia Air Flight 370
Then again, with what it would cost out here to perform the same install, plus tuning (which usually runs around 600 British Pounds, or 1200 USD per session), it may behoove me to look into a round trip ticket.
Obviously a far-off pipe dream at the moment, but I think will go have a look at airfare just for the heck of it. Hmm.
_Sloth Whisperer_
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,369
Likes: 9
From: Malaysia Air Flight 370
Interesting that your estimate is what Craig got with these heads using a 228 cam.
Huge cams dont work so well and would require you to reagin piston/valve clearance by reducing your compression. The biggest thing that fights these heads is tight lobe separations. If you have less than 114 it isnt a great match but can work ok. In addition, the 1 7/8 headers will only compound the low TQ issues associated with big cams and these heads.
Trick flow 225's would be better suited to your big cam. With the 12:1 compression it should be used with, you will be in the 500rwhp range. 12:1 with L92/LS3 heads is a pipe dream on a 6 liter.
Huge cams dont work so well and would require you to reagin piston/valve clearance by reducing your compression. The biggest thing that fights these heads is tight lobe separations. If you have less than 114 it isnt a great match but can work ok. In addition, the 1 7/8 headers will only compound the low TQ issues associated with big cams and these heads.
Trick flow 225's would be better suited to your big cam. With the 12:1 compression it should be used with, you will be in the 500rwhp range. 12:1 with L92/LS3 heads is a pipe dream on a 6 liter.
Thanks for the honest information. I originally planned out the build with the prospect of eventually going FI. I was willing to trade some low end with the 234/240 cam and 1 7/8" LT's for now, while still maintaining the option of having parts in place already that would work well with a blower/nitrous if and when I pulled the trigger.
About the LSA, 112+3. So per your thoughts, it definitely wouldnt be a perfect pairing.
_Sloth Whisperer_
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,369
Likes: 9
From: Malaysia Air Flight 370
Another thought: With the TFS 225 Heads (the exact heads recommended by my tuner initially as a match for the cam selection), would fly cutting or new pistions be necessary to achieve the 12:1? If so, would it be feasible to get it as close as possible, i.e. somewhere over 11.5? I'd prefer not to have to go into the shortblock, obviously.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 13,760
Likes: 75
From: Haymarket VA
Huge cams dont work so well and would require you to reagin piston/valve clearance by reducing your compression. The biggest thing that fights these heads is tight lobe separations. If you have less than 114 it isnt a great match but can work ok. In addition, the 1 7/8 headers will only compound the low TQ issues associated with big cams and these heads.
I ran a 234-240 112 +0 in my car and it worked great with moderate compression and 1 7/8 LT's. I know several people who now run that cam in 6.0 litres and make very good numbers.
Last edited by WKMCD; Sep 22, 2008 at 04:52 PM.
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Race Director
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 13,760
Likes: 75
From: Haymarket VA
I agree with the huge cams comment. Many people have failed on other forums trying to run 25x size cams. What is patently untrue is the comment about anything less than 114 lsa. It's about valve events and getting them right that make these heads work - or not. People should not be afraid to run 23x cams with these heads. They consistently produce great low and mid range numbers if you keep the cylinder pressure up and can run enough timing. 1 7/8 LT's have been proven time and time again to produce good power across the board.
It's fine to promote your business and I hope you do well. It's not necessary to........
Last edited by WKMCD; Sep 23, 2008 at 08:30 AM.
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Elmira NY
I agree with the huge cams comment. Many people have failed on other forums trying to run 25x size cams. What is patently untrue is the comment about anything less than 114 lsa. It's about valve events and getting them right that make these heads work - or not. People should not be afraid to run 23x cams with these heads. They consistently produce great low and mid range numbers if you keep the cylinder pressure up and can run enough timing. 1 7/8 LT's have been proven time and time again to produce good power across the board.
It's fine to promote your business and I hope you do well. It's not necessary to........
It's fine to promote your business and I hope you do well. It's not necessary to........
Shhh sounds more like he takes the short bus to work and not a Vette!
After that LSA comment and the "Big" header comment I'm pretty sure there was a MASSIVE Kool Aid spill over here as well.
Bret
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Working in the shop 24/7 HI
Red line - stock 243
Blue line - L92/L76 head/intake swap
... still working on his tune.... a bit fat ...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,052
Likes: 14
BTW: I run an L92 build
I agree with the huge cams comment. Many people have failed on other forums trying to run 25x size cams. What is patently untrue is the comment about anything less than 114 lsa. It's about valve events and getting them right that make these heads work - or not. People should not be afraid to run 23x cams with these heads. They consistently produce great low and mid range numbers if you keep the cylinder pressure up and can run enough timing. 1 7/8 LT's have been proven time and time again to produce good power across the board.
It's fine to promote your business and I hope you do well. It's not necessary to........
I agree with the huge cams comment. Many people have failed on other forums trying to run 25x size cams. What is patently untrue is the comment about anything less than 114 lsa. It's about valve events and getting them right that make these heads work - or not. People should not be afraid to run 23x cams with these heads. They consistently produce great low and mid range numbers if you keep the cylinder pressure up and can run enough timing. 1 7/8 LT's have been proven time and time again to produce good power across the board.
It's fine to promote your business and I hope you do well. It's not necessary to........
TSP just did a dyno of 1 3/4 vs 1 7/8 on a 346.
A MUST read for header buyers.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...ighlight=7/8+1
"The very first dyno testing we did compared header primaries & power output from 3000 to 6000rpm. The base engine was completely stock 01 engine with only a Fast intake installed. We dyno tested both the Pacesetter 1 3/4" coated long tubes & the TSP 1 7/8" long tube headers. The goal was to see how the larger primaries would effect power on a basically stock engine. To my suprise the 1 7/8" headers made a considerable amount more power than the 1 3/4" headers! Power output was virtually identical untiL 4800 rpm when the 1 7/8" headers began to outpower the smaller 1 3/4" primaries. The 1 7/8" headers made a peak hp of 414.x hp & 421lb ft while the 1 3/4" headers made 408hp & 419 lb ft of torque. While this isn't a huge difference, it definately shows that even on a basically stock car the larger headers are still a good investment! Power under the 4800rpm point was virtually identical! Infact the 3000 rpm numbers were 209hp 366 tq from the 1 3/4" headers & 209hp 359.9 tq! "
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Working in the shop 24/7 HI
Amen, and they LOVE nitrous!
TSP just did a dyno of 1 3/4 vs 1 7/8 on a 346.
A MUST read for header buyers.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...ighlight=7/8+1
"The very first dyno testing we did compared header primaries & power output from 3000 to 6000rpm. The base engine was completely stock 01 engine with only a Fast intake installed. We dyno tested both the Pacesetter 1 3/4" coated long tubes & the TSP 1 7/8" long tube headers. The goal was to see how the larger primaries would effect power on a basically stock engine. To my suprise the 1 7/8" headers made a considerable amount more power than the 1 3/4" headers! Power output was virtually identical untiL 4800 rpm when the 1 7/8" headers began to outpower the smaller 1 3/4" primaries. The 1 7/8" headers made a peak hp of 414.x hp & 421lb ft while the 1 3/4" headers made 408hp & 419 lb ft of torque. While this isn't a huge difference, it definately shows that even on a basically stock car the larger headers are still a good investment! Power under the 4800rpm point was virtually identical! Infact the 3000 rpm numbers were 209hp 366 tq from the 1 3/4" headers & 209hp 359.9 tq! "
TSP just did a dyno of 1 3/4 vs 1 7/8 on a 346.
A MUST read for header buyers.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...ighlight=7/8+1
"The very first dyno testing we did compared header primaries & power output from 3000 to 6000rpm. The base engine was completely stock 01 engine with only a Fast intake installed. We dyno tested both the Pacesetter 1 3/4" coated long tubes & the TSP 1 7/8" long tube headers. The goal was to see how the larger primaries would effect power on a basically stock engine. To my suprise the 1 7/8" headers made a considerable amount more power than the 1 3/4" headers! Power output was virtually identical untiL 4800 rpm when the 1 7/8" headers began to outpower the smaller 1 3/4" primaries. The 1 7/8" headers made a peak hp of 414.x hp & 421lb ft while the 1 3/4" headers made 408hp & 419 lb ft of torque. While this isn't a huge difference, it definately shows that even on a basically stock car the larger headers are still a good investment! Power under the 4800rpm point was virtually identical! Infact the 3000 rpm numbers were 209hp 366 tq from the 1 3/4" headers & 209hp 359.9 tq! "
Compare the same company (eg. ARH 1-3/4 to ARH 1-7/8) is the correct way to do this type of test.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,328
Likes: 405
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,052
Likes: 14
Right. 1 3/4 flanges vs 1 7/8 flanges have no place in a comparisson. The TSP's are very similar to PC's as a budget header F-body header. They may even have better results with a top quailty header such as Kooks. Let me guess, you guys think you'll see no benefit from N20 on 1 7/8's vs 1 3/4's either, though every nitrous comany will tell you differently.
