so my buddy keeps telling me that the best way to shift at the track for maximum performance and traction would be to shift without the clutch after first gear not sure if anyone here on the forum does that or what effect it has on the car and the transmisson

 

It can be done. NOT A GOOD IDEA.

 

anyone else? just looking for feed back from anyone whos done this regularly with positive or negative results

 

back in the day before syncros this was the only way to shift, you had to rev match perfectly to get it to go into gear

now they have syncros, so you dont have to do it, if you wanted to shift without a clutch the revs have to be perfect before going into the next gear otherwise you will trash the syncro, theyre only made of brass in alot of cars

dont do it, dont practice it on your car or you will be grinding into each gear when you damage the sycros

 

If GM put the damn "no-lift shift" option in the Vettes like they did with the Cadi, we wouldn't have to worry.

 

You should definitely use his car to practice.

 

Sure it can be done. Race transmissions(dog box) that are built for this type of clutchless shifting need to be inspected every couple of days at the track (500-2000 dollars pretty easily). Now take a stock transimisson built with syncos and slam gears with it. Then check the cost vs time gained on track vs down time and see where you are at.

Randy

 

No lift shift just holds the revs while you shift with your foot to the floor; it doesn't do away with the need for a clutch...
Plus, you can "no lift shift" Any car, even if it is not equipped with that feature... All that will happen is you will be coming down from a very high RPM when you let the clutch go in the next gear... I see people doing it at the drag strip all the time. I did it once on a 3-4 shift and it didn't even bounce the rev limiter; just chirped the tires and slipped the clutch a bit. Very abusive tough.

 

I've shifted a lot of cars without using the clutch and I can do it very reliably on my C6 without grinding gears.
It is always slower than shifting with the clutch because I have to wait for the revs to match perfectly.
Very pointless in a car with synchros. The best answer I've heard to the question "can you shift without the clutch" was the guy that said: "That's like asking: Can you swallow your food without chewing?"

 

Now that there is funny! Good one Sam...

 

I do it all the time. When i'm driving one of my Peterbilts or Kenworths

 

Shifting without the clutch is EXTREMELY hard on the transmission. A sychronized transmission has a small clutch for every gear. When you push in the clutch it is used to match the gear to the RPM of the clutch disk, prop shaft, and the transmission gears. When you dont use the clutch it has to work against engine power. It's like driving around with your foot on the brakes at wide open throttle.

 

look at the pic's in this thread to answer the question of what speed shifting does to your trans, the synchro's are all rounded over and burnt... http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...m-factory.html

 

True but I'm assuming you'd want to shift without the clutch because it's easier/faster? Like you said though it isn't faster. I would think a no-lift shift would help with this while also not being abusive to the synchros/transmission.

 

The *ONLY* way you can shift without using the clutch is if the RPMs match up perfectly; otherwise the gears will grind but the shifter will simply not go in. On a MN6 transmission the RPM jump from gear to gear is 2000RPMs all the way to 4rth; that means that on every shift you attempt without a clutch, you are going to be waiting or the engine to drop 2000RPMs before you can engage the next gear; on a stock car with a stock flywheel this takes at least a full second; any driver can push the clutch in, put the shifter in the next gear, and drop the clutch in less time than that.

"No Lift Shift" allows you to set a secondary rev limiter. I had it on my Subaru STI: it was very neat, but did nothing for clutchless shifting; I could set the secondary rev limiter, at, say, 4500RPMs and shift from redline (6500) in every gear, having the no lift shift feature help me not grind gears if I take too long to do the shift, but that won't change the fact that I am still going to have to wait for the engine to drop a full 2000RPM before the shifter will pop into gear.
Downshifts are trickier; you have to release your foot off the gas, pull the shifter out of gear, and then blip the throttle while applying slight force to the shifter, trying to force it into a lower gear; when the RPM matches the revs you should be doing in that gear, the shifter will pop right in. If you do it wrong it will grind horribly. I can do a clutchless downshift faster than an upshift since the engine revs up faster than it comes down, but it is still slower than with a clutch...

The only way you can clutchless shift faster than with a clutch is with a dogbox trasmission that does not require the RPMs to be matched... Since the T56 and the T6060 transmissions are not dogboxes (and thankfully so; dogbox tranmissions are extremely loud, harsh and require regular rebuilds), we are better off with the clutch, every time.

In 2004 drove from Vermont to Upper Peninsula Michigan during the height of winter through Canada; it was -32F and snowing VERY heavily... During 18+ hours of that trip I kept myself entertained by clutchless shifting all the gears on my Subaru... I got quite good at it; I could go 5-4-3-2, then 2-3-4-5 without grinding a single one...

 

haha you CAN hold the gas (no lift shift) with out the clutch but do not count on the tranny holding it for more than a few runs.

I have don it ONE time in a 85 mustang, it was the loudest bang then tires spin i have heard. not good.


you can power shift (no lift shift) the car (if done with correct timing) the only major abuse is on the clutch. but most peole are a little off and it will where on the sycros. and later on in the cars life have troubles.

these cars have carbon fiber syncros. not brass.

the dogg cut slider rings and be installed and you can shift like you asked, but they will pop out of grear on a down shift.

 

your buddy not your "friend"

 

Just the opposite. In driving schools they teach you how to use the clutch twice on each downshift (heel/toe downshifting) to get everything turning at the same speed and minimize upsetting the balance of the car.

 

so what you're telling us is that you and you're buddy probably don't own a corvette or probably even have a driver's license. and now we're supposed to get into an indepth discussion on how to shift on the track, I think it's time for a CF where your log-in is your VIN

 

-- -- If you do it, you're inviting trouble.