LS3's with headers come inside ...
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,017
Likes: 2
I'm interested too, but I'd like to know what the headers really contributed. If the car already had as good a tune as possible for a baseline, then added headers and re-tuned, then the headers value would be established. Using a car without a tune as a baseline only tells me what a header/tune combo produces.
Using the above example which gained 28hp, did the $1800 headers gain 8hp and the $400 tune 20hp? Could you have gained 20hp with just the tune or only 15hp? Maybe the headers were good for 18hp and the tune the last 10hp. Your guess is as good as anyone's.
There's no way to know when you do several mods at the same time, which ones really helped.
Using the above example which gained 28hp, did the $1800 headers gain 8hp and the $400 tune 20hp? Could you have gained 20hp with just the tune or only 15hp? Maybe the headers were good for 18hp and the tune the last 10hp. Your guess is as good as anyone's.
There's no way to know when you do several mods at the same time, which ones really helped.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,557
Likes: 2,106
From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
To use the Z06 mufflers on a std. C6, simply cut the Z06 pipe off the muffler leaving about 3/4" remaining. Then cut the std. pipe off the std. muffler as close as possible. Slip the std. pipe into the tapered stub on the Z06 muffler and weld in place.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,557
Likes: 2,106
From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
If I remember correctly the first readout post header install was was 412hp. Then the tuner did his work. The car ran 3-4 runs on the dyno after the header install. Remember a tune is not just A/F ratio on these cars. Torque management is reduced or eliminated, the rear O2 sensors have to be dealt with, and CAGS removed. I watched as he ran the car several times holding the car at certain RPM (Mustang Dyno) to check for KR.
Untuned w/o headers vs. tuned w/headers is not apples to apples.
Le Mans Master<br><img src="/forums/images/ranks/5k-6k.gif" border="0">
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,404
Likes: 1
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
All make about the same peak HP.
- LG make more torque below peak, but don't fit as well and are a pain since they have slip fit connections.
- ARH & Kooks are both easy to install and don't have the slip fit connections. I like ARH because (IMO) the quality of the construction is better.
When you do headers, make sure you do the intake at the same time. If you can't get the air into the engine, there's no sense in trying to get it out easier.
Since it looks like you're the kind of guy that really wants a good performing car, I'll tell you a few mods that most people like to keep secret.
- Pulstar plugs will add about 25 RWHP
- Vararam throttle body spacer adds 10 RWHP
- Tornado is needed to see any of these gains. Most people skip this step and then complain when they get low a dyno number.
Oh, if you get these mods done and don't see the gains you expected, just take your car to another shop and get it dyno'd again. Sometimes the first dyno session doesn't take and you have to do it a couple of times. Try different shops each time. It's better that way.
Take care and good luck. Be sure and come back and tell us how it all works out.
-Ben
- LG make more torque below peak, but don't fit as well and are a pain since they have slip fit connections.
- ARH & Kooks are both easy to install and don't have the slip fit connections. I like ARH because (IMO) the quality of the construction is better.
When you do headers, make sure you do the intake at the same time. If you can't get the air into the engine, there's no sense in trying to get it out easier.
Since it looks like you're the kind of guy that really wants a good performing car, I'll tell you a few mods that most people like to keep secret.
- Pulstar plugs will add about 25 RWHP
- Vararam throttle body spacer adds 10 RWHP
- Tornado is needed to see any of these gains. Most people skip this step and then complain when they get low a dyno number.
Oh, if you get these mods done and don't see the gains you expected, just take your car to another shop and get it dyno'd again. Sometimes the first dyno session doesn't take and you have to do it a couple of times. Try different shops each time. It's better that way.
Take care and good luck. Be sure and come back and tell us how it all works out.
-Ben
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,017
Likes: 2
The point I'm trying to make is: The value that headers make can only be established by the difference between a tuned car without the headers and the same car tuned with headers. And yes, the car needs to be re-tuned after header install to take full advantage of the header mod.
Untuned w/o headers vs. tuned w/headers is not apples to apples.
Untuned w/o headers vs. tuned w/headers is not apples to apples.
Last edited by nwc6; Jan 16, 2009 at 11:51 AM.
Thread Starter
aka allbottle¬hrottle
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,759
Likes: 0
From: Brooklyn New York The DVL and the chicken sleep with the fishes....
St. Jude Donor '08
All make about the same peak HP.
- LG make more torque below peak, but don't fit as well and are a pain since they have slip fit connections.
- ARH & Kooks are both easy to install and don't have the slip fit connections. I like ARH because (IMO) the quality of the construction is better.
When you do headers, make sure you do the intake at the same time. If you can't get the air into the engine, there's no sense in trying to get it out easier.
Since it looks like you're the kind of guy that really wants a good performing car, I'll tell you a few mods that most people like to keep secret.
- Pulstar plugs will add about 25 RWHP
- Vararam throttle body spacer adds 10 RWHP
- Tornado is needed to see any of these gains. Most people skip this step and then complain when they get low a dyno number.
Oh, if you get these mods done and don't see the gains you expected, just take your car to another shop and get it dyno'd again. Sometimes the first dyno session doesn't take and you have to do it a couple of times. Try different shops each time. It's better that way.
Take care and good luck. Be sure and come back and tell us how it all works out.
-Ben
- LG make more torque below peak, but don't fit as well and are a pain since they have slip fit connections.
- ARH & Kooks are both easy to install and don't have the slip fit connections. I like ARH because (IMO) the quality of the construction is better.
When you do headers, make sure you do the intake at the same time. If you can't get the air into the engine, there's no sense in trying to get it out easier.
Since it looks like you're the kind of guy that really wants a good performing car, I'll tell you a few mods that most people like to keep secret.
- Pulstar plugs will add about 25 RWHP
- Vararam throttle body spacer adds 10 RWHP
- Tornado is needed to see any of these gains. Most people skip this step and then complain when they get low a dyno number.
Oh, if you get these mods done and don't see the gains you expected, just take your car to another shop and get it dyno'd again. Sometimes the first dyno session doesn't take and you have to do it a couple of times. Try different shops each time. It's better that way.
Take care and good luck. Be sure and come back and tell us how it all works out.
-Ben
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Racer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 410
Likes: 9
Racer
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere in Portland,OR
Halltech
Tstate 160
Tune
441rwhp / 435tq
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,933
Likes: 905
From: salem OR
No there all like he posted in your quote! 2 1/2 inlet. Z-06 has 3inch to the muffler that is swaged down at the inlet! I was 372 370 stock then 421 410 with headers, then z-06 mufflers,423 417 msd wires plug tune gave me a best N/a of 433 428 on a day with unreal air. Get the 1 7/8's if you do! 3 inch x-pipe!
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; Jan 16, 2009 at 08:44 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,922
Likes: 4
From: Cheektowaga NY
St. Jude Donor '08
All make about the same peak HP.
- LG make more torque below peak, but don't fit as well and are a pain since they have slip fit connections.
- ARH & Kooks are both easy to install and don't have the slip fit connections. I like ARH because (IMO) the quality of the construction is better.
When you do headers, make sure you do the intake at the same time. If you can't get the air into the engine, there's no sense in trying to get it out easier.
Since it looks like you're the kind of guy that really wants a good performing car, I'll tell you a few mods that most people like to keep secret.
- Pulstar plugs will add about 25 RWHP
- Vararam throttle body spacer adds 10 RWHP
- Tornado is needed to see any of these gains. Most people skip this step and then complain when they get low a dyno number.
Oh, if you get these mods done and don't see the gains you expected, just take your car to another shop and get it dyno'd again. Sometimes the first dyno session doesn't take and you have to do it a couple of times. Try different shops each time. It's better that way.
Take care and good luck. Be sure and come back and tell us how it all works out.
-Ben
- LG make more torque below peak, but don't fit as well and are a pain since they have slip fit connections.
- ARH & Kooks are both easy to install and don't have the slip fit connections. I like ARH because (IMO) the quality of the construction is better.
When you do headers, make sure you do the intake at the same time. If you can't get the air into the engine, there's no sense in trying to get it out easier.
Since it looks like you're the kind of guy that really wants a good performing car, I'll tell you a few mods that most people like to keep secret.
- Pulstar plugs will add about 25 RWHP
- Vararam throttle body spacer adds 10 RWHP
- Tornado is needed to see any of these gains. Most people skip this step and then complain when they get low a dyno number.
Oh, if you get these mods done and don't see the gains you expected, just take your car to another shop and get it dyno'd again. Sometimes the first dyno session doesn't take and you have to do it a couple of times. Try different shops each time. It's better that way.
Take care and good luck. Be sure and come back and tell us how it all works out.
-Ben
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,557
Likes: 2,106
From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
I was on the fence regarding headers, because the price per hp didn't seem too well established. These two examples average about $85/hp. While a little on the high side, it's still a lot lower than NPP at $200/hp. Now all that's left is to find where I hid that mod money.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 410
Likes: 9
What it comes down to is...headers make more power..probably on average if you hold eveything else constant somewhere between 15- 25 hp versus stock. Problem is they do make more noise and are illegal in some states. The ZO6 intake manifold plus headpipes is like a probably legal shortie header and on a different thread a guy from San Fran stated he got about 11 hp with this mod...either way by the time things are finalized/installed and working!.. which ever way you go it is about $100.00/hp.
Banned Scam/Spammer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,083
Likes: 3,869
From: Bonita Springs FL
Once again peak HP #s are being used as the absolute yardstick. LT's significantly bump midrange torque which makes the LT headered car more responsive and fun to drive. You can install a cam that will kick *** in the highest rpm ranges and suck where you drive the car 99%+ of the time.
Joe Blows car made 440 HP on a Dyno, Great, how much time does he spend running his LS motor @ 6,500 rpm.
Joe Blows car made 440 HP on a Dyno, Great, how much time does he spend running his LS motor @ 6,500 rpm.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,557
Likes: 2,106
From: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Once again peak HP #s are being used as the absolute yardstick. LT's significantly bump midrange torque which makes the LT headered car more responsive and fun to drive. You can install a cam that will kick *** in the highest rpm ranges and suck where you drive the car 99%+ of the time.
Joe Blows car made 440 HP on a Dyno, Great, how much time does he spend running his LS motor @ 6,500 rpm.
Joe Blows car made 440 HP on a Dyno, Great, how much time does he spend running his LS motor @ 6,500 rpm.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 296
Likes: 23
From: Mooresville NC
I had Stainless Works headers and converters installed on my 2008 C6 automatic at MTI Racing in Atlanta. I kept the stock NPP mufflers. They also dyno tuned the car. The result at the rear wheels is 410.67 HP with max torque of 411. On Monday MTI will be installing a Callaway Honker air intake. This should give me a few more pony's.