Cam selection giving me a headache!!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 193
Likes: 1
Cam selection giving me a headache!!
i have read all the threads on cams and i am still no closer to making a selection. of course everyone agrees it depends on how you will use your car and what your goals are. having said that here is what i have and here is what i want.
i have a daily driver M6 with CAI, LT Headers, 3.90 Gears and a tune. currently at 425/420. i will never add a power adder and my only planned additions are an intake and under drive pulley. i want to keep it very reliable with great driveability. prefer a slighly more agressive lope that you can hear when npp exhaust is open but do not want car to shake. i want power EVERYWHERE as i am not interested in peak numbers. I would like to gain approx 40 hp and ft lbs accross the board so my goal is 465/460. i want to feel the power in 6th gear at 70mph / 2,500 rpm and i want to feel it in every gear at 6,600 rpm..
so what are my choices??
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 1
From: Annandale VA
Boy, you have a lot of good choices! 
I am assuming you have an LS3 based on your existing numbers. If so, this means you can go with a little bit bigger cam, and still retain good driveability and street manners.
Since this is a daily driver, and not a weekend strip warrior, I would suggest you keep the lift under .600". This will keep valvetrain noise down, and valvetrain life up --- you won't be needing to swap out your valvesprings every 20K miles.
I would also recommend keeping the LSA at 114-115. This will do two things. One is that it will keep your TQ curve relatively flat, with good midrange. It will also keep your idle relatively tame. A narrower LSA (112 or so) combined with a relatively larger duration will result in more overlap, and resulting idle and driveability issues.
So, keeping in mind this is a daily driver, I would say a 228-232, .588", 114 grind would suit you very well. This is a fairly standard Comp Cams XE-R lobe, and there are tons of them around. I am reasonably sure that SpinMonster uses a cam with very similar specs.
This is a good starting point. Let the debate begin!
I am assuming you have an LS3 based on your existing numbers. If so, this means you can go with a little bit bigger cam, and still retain good driveability and street manners.
Since this is a daily driver, and not a weekend strip warrior, I would suggest you keep the lift under .600". This will keep valvetrain noise down, and valvetrain life up --- you won't be needing to swap out your valvesprings every 20K miles.
I would also recommend keeping the LSA at 114-115. This will do two things. One is that it will keep your TQ curve relatively flat, with good midrange. It will also keep your idle relatively tame. A narrower LSA (112 or so) combined with a relatively larger duration will result in more overlap, and resulting idle and driveability issues.
So, keeping in mind this is a daily driver, I would say a 228-232, .588", 114 grind would suit you very well. This is a fairly standard Comp Cams XE-R lobe, and there are tons of them around. I am reasonably sure that SpinMonster uses a cam with very similar specs.
This is a good starting point. Let the debate begin!
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,331
Likes: 18
From: Missouri City Texas
Ha ha, maybe it's just me....but getting a cam with a tame idle almost defeats the point of getting a cam.
When I cam this car I want it to sound like the apocalypse is coming when it's loping.
My car is already fast enough for a street vehicle, so really I want a cam for the sound. I miss my firebirds lope
When I cam this car I want it to sound like the apocalypse is coming when it's loping.
My car is already fast enough for a street vehicle, so really I want a cam for the sound. I miss my firebirds lope
Racer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Ha ha, maybe it's just me....but getting a cam with a tame idle almost defeats the point of getting a cam.
When I cam this car I want it to sound like the apocalypse is coming when it's loping.
My car is already fast enough for a street vehicle, so really I want a cam for the sound. I miss my firebirds lope
When I cam this car I want it to sound like the apocalypse is coming when it's loping.
My car is already fast enough for a street vehicle, so really I want a cam for the sound. I miss my firebirds lope
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 995
Likes: 2
From: Virginia Beach VA
My 2 Cents
I'm on board w/ the 228/232 - 114LSA, but I went .598/.601 w/ 6MN Z-51. With a measley 'ol bolt-on LS2 I made 452rwhp/418rwtq, an LS3 will benefit just as much if not more due to better breathing, but will be even more sublte w/ increase in displacement. The 114 or do + will idle smoothly & you can have your tuner make the cam more or less noticeable at idle. I have NPPs & w/ them closed it sounds pretty close to stock (can't hide headers & FAST intake) & drives very smoothly. When properly tuned & "PROPERLY" is the operative word 'cuz the tuner can change the lope and idle dramatically depending on your taste. Check w/ "THE CLEVITE KID" as I recall he had a different choice of cam that runs far closer to stock in the day to day driving but put up very strong numbers. I'm thinking I saw guys running 224/226, but they may have used thinner head gaskets to up the compression, so the combo was very stock driviability w/ power level above what you noted. If I can remember whose car it was I'll send you a pm.
Last edited by Mike V.; May 8, 2009 at 12:20 AM.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
From: cen-tex
What about the Texas Speed 228R cam. .228/.228 duration with .588/.588 lift. I know alot of people have it on LS2's but none i can think on an LS3. I've read its a very streetable, very driveable cam. Also they have a 224R cam i believe. Might want to research that!
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Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,389
Likes: 2,910
From: Fort Worth, Texas
I believe Spin now prefers the XFI lobes, which are a little easier on the valvetrain over the XER lobes b/c they don't open and close as fast initially, yet they have more lift and area under the curve...I'd like to see a 226/232 XFI 114+2 in an ls3...should easily produce the power results you're looking for and with 1 degree of overlap should have a slight lope at idle, yet still being able to pass emissions
Last edited by PRE-Z06; May 8, 2009 at 03:25 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
To me cam + DD and lope + no-shaking really don't go together. A nice DD cam with lope and no idle shake just doesn't exist. If you want lope you'll have to learn to deal with some idle shake.
I've had a G5-X2 in my C5Z for 2.5 years now. It's a 232/240 .595/.608 on a 114lsa. If I could do it all over again I'd have gotten something with a little more low end grunt, but at the time I hadn't gotten my dedicated track car yet and was running HPDEs w/ the car so the G5-X2 was perfect. Now that it's a driver/weekend toy something w/ more low end would be more fun tooling around.
I think these guys have you in the right direction... keep lift below .600, keep the LSA at 114 or higher and consider the XFI lobe profile which is a little easier on the valve-train.
You have to remember there's a reason these cars come with the stock cams like they do... GM tries to make the best of all worlds when it comes to longevity, emissions, and drivability... you have to sacrifice somewhere when you put a cam in.
I've had a G5-X2 in my C5Z for 2.5 years now. It's a 232/240 .595/.608 on a 114lsa. If I could do it all over again I'd have gotten something with a little more low end grunt, but at the time I hadn't gotten my dedicated track car yet and was running HPDEs w/ the car so the G5-X2 was perfect. Now that it's a driver/weekend toy something w/ more low end would be more fun tooling around.
I think these guys have you in the right direction... keep lift below .600, keep the LSA at 114 or higher and consider the XFI lobe profile which is a little easier on the valve-train.
You have to remember there's a reason these cars come with the stock cams like they do... GM tries to make the best of all worlds when it comes to longevity, emissions, and drivability... you have to sacrifice somewhere when you put a cam in.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 1
From: Annandale VA
To me cam + DD and lope + no-shaking really don't go together. A nice DD cam with lope and no idle shake just doesn't exist. If you want lope you'll have to learn to deal with some idle shake.
I've had a G5-X2 in my C5Z for 2.5 years now. It's a 232/240 .595/.608 on a 114lsa. If I could do it all over again I'd have gotten something with a little more low end grunt, but at the time I hadn't gotten my dedicated track car yet and was running HPDEs w/ the car so the G5-X2 was perfect. Now that it's a driver/weekend toy something w/ more low end would be more fun tooling around.
I think these guys have you in the right direction... keep lift below .600, keep the LSA at 114 or higher and consider the XFI lobe profile which is a little easier on the valve-train.
You have to remember there's a reason these cars come with the stock cams like they do... GM tries to make the best of all worlds when it comes to longevity, emissions, and drivability... you have to sacrifice somewhere when you put a cam in.
I've had a G5-X2 in my C5Z for 2.5 years now. It's a 232/240 .595/.608 on a 114lsa. If I could do it all over again I'd have gotten something with a little more low end grunt, but at the time I hadn't gotten my dedicated track car yet and was running HPDEs w/ the car so the G5-X2 was perfect. Now that it's a driver/weekend toy something w/ more low end would be more fun tooling around.
I think these guys have you in the right direction... keep lift below .600, keep the LSA at 114 or higher and consider the XFI lobe profile which is a little easier on the valve-train.
You have to remember there's a reason these cars come with the stock cams like they do... GM tries to make the best of all worlds when it comes to longevity, emissions, and drivability... you have to sacrifice somewhere when you put a cam in.
The 228/232 is a nice grind, but even better for driveability would be a 228/228. You give up a little on the top end (less peak HP), but overall average TQ might even go up.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
I disagree. On a previous car (LS1) I had a cam that gave me good power, but was virtually undetectable, even by a group of experienced modders in my local car club. I drove that car over 50K miles, and my wife never knew it had a cam in it. The trick is to keep overlap down.
The 228/232 is a nice grind, but even better for driveability would be a 228/228. You give up a little on the top end (less peak HP), but overall average TQ might even go up.
The 228/232 is a nice grind, but even better for driveability would be a 228/228. You give up a little on the top end (less peak HP), but overall average TQ might even go up.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 1
From: Annandale VA
The point is that the cam I picked had no lope, no shake. NONE.
Only way anyone listening to it could possibly tell was the idle speed was 50 RPMs higher. Most people cannot hear that.
IMHO, many cams can result in a mild lope, but not have any shake. To me, shake is when the idle roughness is externally visible.
Maybe we just have a diferent understanding of the terminology.
Only way anyone listening to it could possibly tell was the idle speed was 50 RPMs higher. Most people cannot hear that.
IMHO, many cams can result in a mild lope, but not have any shake. To me, shake is when the idle roughness is externally visible.
Maybe we just have a diferent understanding of the terminology.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 193
Likes: 1
let me clarify what i meant.. i understand adding a cam will typically add "shake" to the car while at idle.. i just do not want a lot of it.. even the stock cam shakes a little. as far as sound goes, i would like to have it so when the baffles are closed on the npp exhaust you can't really hear it but want to be able to hear it when i open the baffles..
i just got off the phone with comp and they said based on what i am looking for this would be the way to go. their xfi cam 566/576 - 222/234 - lsa 113. these numbers mean nothing to me but this is what they said..
i just got off the phone with comp and they said based on what i am looking for this would be the way to go. their xfi cam 566/576 - 222/234 - lsa 113. these numbers mean nothing to me but this is what they said..
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,537
Likes: 1,404
From: Bethesda MD
The point is that the cam I picked had no lope, no shake. NONE.
Only way anyone listening to it could possibly tell was the idle speed was 50 RPMs higher. Most people cannot hear that.
IMHO, many cams can result in a mild lope, but not have any shake. To me, shake is when the idle roughness is externally visible.
Maybe we just have a diferent understanding of the terminology.
Only way anyone listening to it could possibly tell was the idle speed was 50 RPMs higher. Most people cannot hear that.
IMHO, many cams can result in a mild lope, but not have any shake. To me, shake is when the idle roughness is externally visible.
Maybe we just have a diferent understanding of the terminology.
You can do a cam with:
almost no detectable lope and no shake
detecable lope but no real shake
lope and shake.
Idle speed has a lot to do with it. At 800 rpm, a lot of DD cams idle like stock. Pull the idle speed back 50, - 75 rpm and you hear a little lope but it still remains smooth. Dial back to 675 - 700 rpm and some shake starts to occur. Obviously, these rpms are example and vary by cam.