We're going to see how these heads work out with a 235/245 0.642"/0.608" 111 LSA cam. 18º of overlap... but hell, the cam in my LS7 has 23º and I've made the car plenty drivable. Should be interesting.

 

I don't go quite that wide on the split. I'm a 232/237ish kinda guy in LS2 driver setups

 

wow really good info in here guys. im in the mist of doing this. just trying to decide on a cam.

Thinking about the Vengeance stage III. 231/243 .617/.624 115+3

Just dont want to fly cut.

 

I'm going to be this set-up myself. I have my heads and other parts, but have not picked a cam. I looked at this cam too, but thought it had to big of a spit. By chance did you read Spins write ups?

 

LS2 TB = 90mm

 

Its best to just get a proven cam with results that can be compared. You can however, see two dyno sheets of 2 cams that make the same power but a 231/235 115+3 and a 231/243 115+3 may have very different driveability characteristics. These heads hate overlap and you may be surprised just how much less power the bigger split may get you.

The big split theorists came along when someone thought the 193cfm exhaust flow spec looked weak and thinking the exhaust runner needs help they added exhaust duration. The reality is, during the overlap period, the exhaust gas doesnt go out the exhaust if the intake runner is an easier route to take....this is called reversion. Overlap is evil and big splits make bigger overlap.

A 230xfi/234xer 114+2 made between 480 and 500rwhp for many cars already. Why anyone would search farther makes no sense. At +4 overlap, its a very well mannered cam.

 

I'm going with a 280*/ 292* @ 112 split, do I win??

Lots of great info in this thread, but it seems like many of the subscribers are not listening. SMALL OVERLAP. No need to go so big to achieve great numbers, as spin and others have pointed out.

 

I dont think 280 would fit without flycutting.

 

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamo...ce-racing.html

502 REAL RWHP/457 REAL RWTQ 239/251 .624/.624 113+3

fly cut and heads milled.

Its their stage IV cam. Spoke with ron via pm several times and he recomended the stage III

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286447

Post number 7.

Theres a list of 20 + setups of L92 heads/cam cars.

There is quite a few that used the flowtech tiger shark cam

232/236 .600/.600 113

Look at PBANDPKGTO. His impresed me the most.

451/403 A4 Through non ported L92s with that tiger shark cam. He also trapped 120 in a A4 gto.

That with the heads milled 30 thousanths on stock gaskets clear without fly cutting. That was the setup I was going to go with untill I found vengeance's results (granted it was a LS3).


Its going to be one of those 2 cams that im going to run.. just still deciding. Everyone is on the big split train with L92s except you and a couple others. Both seem to work well when the cam is spec'd right.

 

Although very impressive, Spin’s combo is coming in between 480-500 rwh using an LS2 with an OEM intake and a smaller cam. The combo you are looking at got the same numbers with a bigger cam, bigger engine (LS3) and a Fast Intake. Please understand I’m not knocking you or your pick just pointing out some info.

 

No offense, but one cam and a single pattern for every customer every time makes no sense either. Different goals, different uses, different total setups and supporting mods all change cam recommendation. We pretty much agree on what an ideal setup for an average driver would be and ours are very similar, but one cam for every car and saying no one needs to look further is closed minded and will only get it right for so many customers. Bigger splits have a purpose regardless of how much you downplay them, and it still makes for the best grind with L92 heads in some certain setups depending on the total setup and end goals. Depending on the customer ideal specs can vary a lot, including larger durations and larger splits between intake/exhaust durations.

Again, not trying to start a war. I think your ideal driver cam is spot on and I like it alot, but there are very good reasons and situations to go with other grinds that venture into duration/split territory.

 

completely understand and noted

This is why I still havent bought a cam yet lol

 

First off a 232/236 is not a big split.

Second, results from an LS3 are not comparable to a LS2 with LS3 heads. I got 463rwhp on an A6 with a 224 single pattern cam on a 115LSA on an LS3 engine.

The point being made is not that big split cams dont work for power but rather, the same power can be made with better driveability. The texas speed 228R is a zero overlap cam that has the awesome driveability of a zero overlap cam. If two cam makes the same power why not go with the one that has no bucking, surging, and works with a supercharger?

If a 230/234 made 501 rwhp, then why use a 232/238 that makes the same power? He posted his results for both track and dyno here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...ivability.html

If the same power is made with a 230 intake duration why not take advantage of the lower overlap and better fitment?

The 501rwhp cam did a 127 trap speed at a 1400DA. Another guy got 486rwhp with it:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...right-now.html

Most people talk themselves into their bigger cam being ok to live with driveability wise but in a side by side comparison with a lower overlap cam, the smaller cam would be chosen by that owner.

Next up is a 232 intake duration on a 114 is not going to fit without flycutting with the compression needed for such a huge cam. It is near 11.7:1 for the same dynamic compression as the stock cam has. I saw a 234 intake duration on a 111LSA and it has .047" clearance which was well outside the safe margin of .080" minimum. These heads have a .140" valve drop from the valve seat to begin with. A 228 cam on a 114LSA with no advance is therefore .090" clearance at .050" off the seat. Now use a thinner gaskets or milling for compression and even a little 228 cam needs flycutting. So if someone told you they got a 232 111LSA with .030" milled and didnt flycut, they do not in any way in hell get a clearance of .080". Nor with a 232 111LSA drive as good as as 230 114LSA.

Use what you want but the results are track and dyno verified by others and not JUST ME. You wont get better power and you wont have better driveability.

 

No offense taken.

I dont have one cam pattern for all applications. I only showed the results of that one cam to illustrate why anyone would go with a bigger cam that makes the same power or less when its been shown by the threads I posted above that the 230/234 cam makes 486rw and 501rw on two cars with dyno proof at a shop independent of me and track run proof to back it up.

I use a 230/230 115+2 for A6 cars with a converter and a 224/224 115 for LS3 cars with an A6. The only changes are reducing overlap in each case. I have never seen a cam do better for top end or area under the curve regardless of its size. Cartek, LG, and ECS have all made bigger cams that with head work hit a 132 trap speed and if you want that level you need those packages. I send people their way but in none of those cases should you expect the driveability of a cam with +4 overlap (I think Cartek's is a +4 but not sure). I made a cam people can easily live with for all but the most **** of C6 owners and I wasnt looking to make the best power cam that ignored the comfort so I only need one cam for each application.

My car uses what I preach. I have a 228/232 XER with L92 heads (I bought from you). They are unported and did 471 throigh 4.10 gears and its now my blower cam well over 700rwhp. Craigster05's car used a similar cam and got 462rw thorugh 4.10's. This exact same cam just did 461rwhp on an LS2 with stock 243 heads and a FAST intake.....thorugh 4.10's. So it seems to be the sweet spot cam for 6 liter engnes to be in this 228 to 230 intake duration. The reason for the 228 to 230 attempt was that the XFI lobe came out that following year and I used a 230 XFI intake lobe. The next up lobe was a 236 XFI and that lost power over the 234 XER.

Again all of these cars were dyno'ed at independent shops and other than Craig's and mine they werent installed by me. I figured if I show my installed results that I tuned on my rented dyno, foul would be called.

All of the above results are with bone stock unported heads and no compression bump. If they want more power then a FAST 102 is first and a porting would be second. Until I see a cam only car do better I see no reason to think it isnt the optimum cam.

I dont sell cams and I dont care if anyone buys it. I shared the info I found on 8 cars with that cam. I dont think I have to fix what works.

I think the people trying big (10 to 12 degree) splits never tried the same cam with a 4 degree split. If they did they would admit the driveability artifacts at 1600rpm go down sharply and in 99% of the cases, they lose no power. A 236 single pattern cam makes 500rwhp on an LS2 with LS3 heads so big cams do work with these heads but to keep the power from falling off you need a wide LSA and a big flycut for compression.

Well thats what I tried in real engines and shared what worked best. I see dyno sheets of bigger cams so I never tried one since they dont do better.....yes they can make the same power but driveability always suffers.

Your 232/236 is the same split as mine. I suspect that a 116+3 would make the same power or slightly better but it isnt a XFI lobe for the intake and a 230 XFI will flow as well as a 232 XER so I never tried it. Can you post the results from it? If its better, I'll push it to others in the many PM's I get from members looking for advice. This isnt a pride thing for me. I'm just helping out.

 

Also known as 8bygoat. I don't post on here since I don't own a vet-I just troll lol.

But I am going to post now.

I "owe" a lot of the results to Spin. Years ago when I did the swap I just researched and looked. Then the guy that built my car and myself sat down and talked and the cam we came up with is the one I run.

I have said for years that a big split is NOT needed to produce great dyno and track #'s. A lot of people are resistant though because of all of the "experts".

Once again, thanks Spin.

 

Thanks and you're welcome.

Years ago the magic cam that was out and is still the record holder was the Cartek 2x cam for the 5.7 liter C5 corvette. It was the first of its kind and many people raised the BS flag because it seemed too small. The lobes at the time were proprietary....they invented the lobe. LAter it was copied by everyone. Tont Mamo used it as the perfect AFR 205 cam. Comp Cams directly copied the lobe profile and marketed it under the XER lobe.

The cam?

It was a 224/228 XER and sent many C5's into the 10's.

As you climb the latter of displacement it makes sense the cams would be bigger. A 6-liter likes a 228/232. LG has a G1 cam thats 228/232 and made 450+rwhp on stock heads as did Leon using a slightly different LSA and he did 461 through 4.10's with stock heads. A 6.2 liter likes a 230 to 232 intake duration. I recently got 586rwtq on a A4 car with a 427 in it. The heads were trick flow 235's and the owner of the car is in this thread. That cam is a 236/242. Over camming usually makes less power under the curve and not much more up top. It is a nitrous car so I didnt go with a 236/236. It works out great.

In all these cases the TQ was above average....not stellar but above the average. Leon got 420+ and LG got 440rwtq. Area under the curve is better with smaller cams. Peak power is close to the best although there are cams that may hit 8-10 more but at a cost.

 

Alot of people realize that "experts" take into account each individual car, rather than issue a blanket statement as to whether big splits are good or bad. You are right that big splits are not needed to produce great power but you have to add to that in setups not requiring that cam profile, but in setups that require and/or can benefit from a more aggressive profile they can dang sure make alot more power or shift the power band to where it needs to be in comparison to a lower duration single pattern cam. In the same light, certain setups such as yours are call for a lower duration single pattern cam and so there are no significant gains to be had from going more aggressive with it.

Your post is aggressive towards the experts and acts as if you know more than them because your less aggressive cam was right in your setup. I'm not sure why this aggression is justified simply because you got the right cam for your setup and you don't understand why a larger split/duration profile isn't right for someone else. Of course they are not right in every situation and cams like yours can be a better answer sometimes. Conversely, yours is not right in every situation and setup either. What makes someone an "expert" is an ability to spec cams to meet needs for different setups with different mods and intentions. You can NEVER say that lower durations, higher durations, tighter splits, wider splits, certain LSA, certain advance etc are always right or always wrong or that they always produce better results that the other, plain and simple.

 

No one is saying a single set of cam specs is best and again you seem to be latching onto that. As duration grows there are limited things to do to keep overlap down. The first to go should be the split size since LSA is more closely tied to the width of power band.

He was making fun of the 231/244 cam experts and not you.

I can think of no car that needs a 10-12 degree split with any set of mods.

The overwhelming PM topic I get is:

I got XYZ cam from tuner X and it bucks at 1600rpm, what can I do?

 

Lets play devil's advocate here.

Forum member Hoffie installed a 228/232 113+1 and got 428rwhp on his 2005 C6. LS2 with stock 243 heads no FAST intake. Kooks 1 3/4 headers and Insanely loud bullets for the exhaust.

Welcome2try installed the same 228/232 and got the same rwhp before his FAST. Cameron had a different cold air intake and the stock exhaust. He was right at 430rwhp.

Verifying again the unusual strong TQ from not overcamming, the LG G1 cam (228/232 durations) did 431/420 with stock heads, no FAST and LG headers/stock exhaust on an LS2:
http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/dis...album=3&pos=51

Forum member LSCHLEM with a 228/232 114 LSA with the following mods did 461/423: LG 1 3/4 headers, FAST, 4.10's, stock 243 heads, UD PULLEY, and a Vararam.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...hru-4-10s.html

LG Motor Sports lists various installs on thier website with dyno results ranging the span of every mod out there including their G1 cam....a 228/232 cam and it made 457/447. Mods were LG headers, cold air intake, borla exhaust, UD pulley. It had stock 243 unported heads.
http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/dis...?album=3&pos=1

Texas speed did 460rwhp with a single pattern 228/228 cam (they sell it as a 228R cam). Even on other forums it does unusually well. I bring it up because it isnt a wide split yet has consistent great results for what is still a 228 cam.

My car did 471/435 when it was H/C with a 228/232 114+0. Mods were: L92 heads, 4.10's LG headers, UD pulley, Alum flywheel/ LS7 clutch, Ported stock TB and ported L76 intake manifold. I also had a Z06 exhaust with NPP controller.

The best to date IMO is DTE results with a 224/230 cam: 470rwhp and the detail of that thread was great.

Later with a 90 shot (it was jetted for 75) it did 560rwhp/611rwtq....same cam.

Later it did 704rwhp with a 1500 paxton at 11.5psi and meth injection.....same cam.

I dont see anywhere that it didnt keep up with the averages even though the specific headers and air cleaner assemblies were different and no where was an aftermarket exhaust helping over a stock exhaust.

I would say that the average guy would find the 228/232 work horse or its 230XFI counterpart to fit most applications. It seems to work great with a 243 or LS3 head too. The 230XFI/234 XER cam makes 432 on average with stock 243 heads and no FAST and has more power under the curve. It makes 460 with a FAST and stock 243 heads. On the LS3 we saw the results 486 to 501 from forum members. I think its a best bet. None of these cars used the FAST 102 yet with it.

When choosing a cam, you use the one with the smallest duration and least overlap for the best driveability. Yes a 235/248 may make the same power but it wont drive the same as a 2 or 4 degree overlap cam. If two cams both make the same power, use the smaller one makes sense to me.

Now if you change to a completely maximized flow head like a trick flow 225, you can go much bigger and take adavantage of the better flowing and yet still small intake runners with 236 cams. That will beat the averages if you are ok with the driveability trade offs. 500rwhp is a given with a best of 520rwhp to date on a LS2.

I close with a quote:

same thread:

The thread:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...and-c-ls2.html

 

I both agree and disagree LOL. For the most part for this discussion, we are talking about stock bottom end LS2's or LS3's with L92/LS3 topends that are daily driven. So yes my blanket statement covers MOST of this discussion. DD's want good dyno and track results without having the car go to s..t on the street. But there is no one miracle cam. But I would love to see someone with a Vet use the setup I have and see what they could run.

My post was NOT directed at you. My post is more directed toward people that jump on the "big split" band wagon don't even have cars with L92 or LS3 topends. They just echo "you need a wide split" because they read it on the internet.