I'm a newbie to TPMS, and especially to the new radio transmit TPMS on my 09 Z06.

Question, when I mount autox/track wheels/tires do I need the TPMS sensors in the wheels for my sessions to run right? Meaning, does the TPMS connect to the ECU or traction control and tell it to slow the car down because a wheel is not reporting air pressure?

Any other downside to tracking without TPMS besides having the low/no air pressure light on?

Thanks.

 

Personally, I suggest you use the TPS's and buy a TPMS tool so you can reset the sensors when you change back and forth between wheel sets. It's not all that expensive and it eliminates any 'potential' problems (that's what I do).

Virtually all the many C6's I'm familiar with at the track use TPS's with their track wheels/tires. That said I know one C6 owner who ran 20-30 minute sessions without any TPS's and didn't have any problems. I know another C6 racer who doesn't have TPS's in his car tires but he keeps 4 small Go-kart tires (with TPS's) band-clamped to his roll bar in the rear cargo area. He said he had problems running without TPS's. There may be differences in how certain model year C6's react to running without sensors (or perhaps due to the length of time the car runs in a track session).

I know if you have TPS's and one (or more?) sensor isn't registered or working properly the system will prevent you from entering comp mode. This happened to me once and frankly it was dangerous running on the track with TC and AH engaging severely at every corner. I had to exit the track after one lap and get the errant sensor registered properly.

Again, I suggest you use the sensors and buy a TPMS tool but BEZ06 is the resident forum expert on the subject. If he doesn't jump-in soon you might want to PM him. He's quite knowledgeable about the TPMS system. Good luck.

 

:o

Wayne O knows as much as I do, and said it all in his post!!

Like he said, if you have NO sensors you're probably better off than if one or two aren't working or aren't registered.

With no sensors installed, you should be able to drive for approximately one hour before you get a problem, so if your track sessions aren't longer than an hour you should be okay.

That "approximately one hour" is without shutting off the ignition. If you do drive for longer than an hour with no sensors and get a "Service Tire Monitor" message, when you shut down/restart the car you should be able to run for another hour.

When you do get that "Service Tire Monitor" message you won't be able to go into Comp mode or turn AH off completely, and if you were running in Comp or AH off, when you get the message AH will automatically come back full on.

So.....like Wayne O said, probably easiest just to run sensors in your track wheels/tires. It's good to know your pressures on the track, and the tool to do the programming is about 100 bux from forum vendor Tire Rack.

BTW, you definitely need a tool for sensors on a 2005-2009 C6, but I think that you do not need the tool to program 2010 C6 sensors. I think that you can use a tool, but I think that they will also respond to a change of pressure in the tire (i.e., letting out or adding pressure for 8 to 10 seconds) when programming. Unfortunately, the 2010 sensors won't work in an earlier C6 - the TPMS computer in the car is different.

Anybody with a 2010 that can confirm that for us???:

Bob

 

Thanks Wayne and BEZ06

This is exactly the detailed info I was looking for. I guess I'll be buying the tool and sensors.

My car is a 2009, so you've answered my part of the question. Would be nice to have this info for the 2010 too.

Thanks Again.

 

The 2010 has a different RPO code for the TPMS computer in the car, and it uses a sensor with a different part# than the 2005-2009 C6 uses.

I haven't been able to confirm it yet, but I believe the 2010 sensor can be triggered and programmed into the TPMS during a relearn procedure by either using a tool, or by changing air pressure in the tire without the need for the expensive tool. The sensors are cheaper too!! Here's info from forum vendor Gene Culley's website http://www.gmpartshouse.com


Bob

 

BTW, I don't know how the AH on a 2010 acts when there is a bad sensor, or when there aren't any sensors at all, but I assume it's similar to the earlier model years of the C6.

The 2010 has LC (Launch Control), and the ZR1 also has PTM (Performance Traction Managemnt), and these are activated by putting the AH into the Comp mode.

I assume that if there are sensor problems on a 2010 that you won't be able to access the Comp mode, but I don't have any confirmation of that yet.

Bob

 

Quick question- is this an issue for all C6s? I just bought a 2005 that I am building into a T1 car since my C5 got destroyed at the Runoffs.

I heard from someone that this is not an issue with 2005 cars, only 2006 and later. Can someone please confirm?

I'm not interested in reading pressures- I want to run without the sensors and be able to turn off the traction control at will whenever I want.

Thanks,

Jason

 

I have an 05. The issue is there. There are a few errors in the text in this thread. You cannot restart the engine and get "another hour". When the first sensor is missing you need to be prepared to drive 80 miles to get the last sensor to be acknowledges as lost. Then the car knows you are using rims without sensor and you car take the corners without having the electronic try to shut the car down.

PeO

 

Thanks. So I am building a new T1 race car from an 05. Once the car is done and I go to test the first time with no sensors in place, will I only have an issue for the first 80 miles, and than i'll never have it again as long as I never run wheels with sensors?

Or does the system totally reset each time you shut the car off, so next time out your back to having a problem?

Thanks again-

Jason

 

 

Many of the drag racers do not run the sensors. What they have done is take the 4 sensors and install it a small PVC tube and close off both ends. Then pressurize the pvc tube to 30 lbs. Keep the pressurized tube with sensors in rear cubby compartment. Problem solved. The reason for this is to eliminate any problems when you over inflate front tires and under inflate drag slicks. This eliminates any negative effects from throwing codes.

 

1) Was thinking of buying two extra rear rims and installing drag radials without sensors; can you use regular valve stems?

2) I turn the car off after each run so can you run without sensors in the rear and not hurt performance?

3) Just need the "traction control" off for drag racing so can this be done with no sensors in the rear wheels?

PS: completely new to these cars, so I don't know $hit.

12.19 et @117 mph with a 1.86 60 ft. so far, full tank & 250 lb. driver and it's an A6 too.

 

Since this thread has come back to life I thought I'd post an update. I bought the reset tool at Tire Rack. It works great and is easy to use. It only adds an extra minute to the changeover from street tires to autox tires.
The bad news is Tire Rack doesn't carry them anymore.

 

I'm trying to see if there is someway to deal with this other than the pressurized canister trick I have seen!

 

Jason, you are correct. Once you have lost the sensor you will not be bothered with them again. You just have to acknowledge at start up with a button. But the electronics will not limit you.

PeO

 

PeOR, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about, but as I understand you, you're saying the issue will go away after some period of time.

Sorry, but I disagree!!!

I stand by my earlier comments that the "issue" will return every time you start up your car.

Here's an excerpt from the Owner's Manual for a 2007, and it's the exact same thing that the 2007-2011 manuals all say:


The 2005 and 2006 manuals say the same thing except instead of "30 minutes" the 2005 and 2006 manuals say "60 minutes".

Like it says, if you don't have sensors and drive your car for that period of time (30 or 60 minutes, depending on model year) you will not be able to turn off AH or go into Comp mode.

That 30 or 60 minutes is one ignition cycle without shutting down the car. During that period of time you will be able to turn off AH or go into Comp mode, however if you are in Comp or have AH off when that period of time runs out, the AH will automatically come back full on.

If you do drive that long and get the "Service Tire Monitor" message and are not able to go into Comp or turn off AH, all you have to do is shut down the car, start it back up, clear any messages, and you'll have another "about 30 (or 60) minutes" where you can run in Comp or with AH before you'll have a problem again.

Different model years seem to have different tolerances for running with no sensors, but I did rather extensive testing with both my 2005 and 2006, and that's the way they both worked. I haven't done much testing with my 2009.

I run sensors in my track wheels/tires on my 2006 to avoid having any problems when running roadcourse events. An autocross car probably won't have any problems because the runs are short, and every time you start the car you'll have about 30 or 60 minutes before the TPMS will start putting you into the so-called "limp mode". If your're running a roadcourse in a 2005 or 2006, you'll probably be okay for about 60 minutes, and generally HPDE sessions are less than that. If you're in a 2007 or newer you'll only have about 30 minutes before the TPMS might create problems for you - you'd have to drive out of the paddock area and onto the start grid, shut down, restart, and then you should have about 30 minutes from engine start before the TPMS will automatically bump you out of Comp mode or AH off.

For a drag racer, you might be better off running with no sensors at all, rather than 2 in your front street tires and none in your DR's. You may not be able to go into Comp mode or turn AH off completely, but you don't want to do that anyway - you just want to be able to turn off TC, and that won't be a problem with no sensors. If you do have sensors in your DR's, the TPMS may cause problems if you run pressures less than 24 psi. For a drag racer you should never run into a time problem from starting up the car to making your run.

If you do not have sensors in your track wheels/tires, your DIC should display the last known pressures that were reported by the sensors in your street tires. For that 30 or 60 minutes the TPMS is listening for a signal from the sensors, and when the time runs out and the TPMS never got a signal, it will start to create problems.

If you take off your street wheels/tires/sensors and put on a set of wheels with no sensors in them, as mentioned above, the TPMS and DIC are working with the last known pressures. If, however, you put on your track wheels and lose battery power (it either runs down, or you disconnect it) those last known tire pressures will be lost from TPMS memory, and on my '05 and '06 I have an immediate problem. With no pressures indicated in the DIC ("xx psi"), as soon as I start the car I'm unable to go into Comp or turn off AH completely.

I've tried running a session with a TPMS/sensor problem and it wasn't pretty!!!! The AH was jerking the car around when it applied individual brakes at turn-in, and when you try to accelerate out the turns the car pulled power - if there was any turn still being sensed by the yaw rate sensor I could put the pedal to the floor and get absolutely no power until the car was going straight. It really sucked and was actually dangerous if other cars were around me and I was slow going into a turn and slower coming out!!!! I limped one lap around the track and back to the pits to do another relearn procedure and get all the sensors registered properly. When I went back out for the rest of the session I had no problems.

So.....I recommend running sensors in your track wheels to avoid AH and limp mode problems.

Bob

 

There's no way that I know of to disable the TPMS.

However, there may be somebody that does know!!

I'm not sure, but these guys may have a solution for a track-only race car: http://www.phoenixperformance.net

Good luck!!

Bob

 

Bob,

I have not tested that since I have only done 25 - 35 minutes sessions. So I trust you are right. But I can for sure turn off the full nanny even when I have XX on the sensors on my 05. But only if I have XX on all of them. If one has a value, there is no reason to enter track since it will be just like describe when the electronics try to protect you from yourself.

When getting the last set of r tires I adedd the tpms sensors and have a resetting tool. Not that I will do longer sessions, the breaks are pretty happy to get a rest at that point. And me too.

PeO.

 

Yes - my experience is that if you drive more than 30 or 60 minutes (depending on model year) that you'll get a DIC message "Service Tire Monitor", possibly followed by a "Limit Speed to 55mph".

When you do get that message you'll be able to turn off TC, but you won't be able to turn off AH completely or go into Comp mode. If you did have AH off completely or were in Comp mode, AH will automatically come back full on when the message appears.

PeOR, you have an '05 so you should have the 60 minute time period. You probably never had a 60 minute engine run time from starting up in the paddock to finishing a session, so you just never ran into the problem.

What is displayed in your DIC for tire pressure when you're running your track wheels? Is it a normal pressure (something like 32 psi), or is it xx psi?

Until you run for the 60 minute time period your DIC is probably displaying normal tire pressures from the last known pressures it received from your street tires.

However, if you disconnect the battery and the DIC displays xx psi instead of normal pressures, you probably won't be able to go into Comp or turn off AH all the way. But, if you have your street tires in the pits, the TPMS will probably pick up transmissions from their sensors (if those are the ones programmed into the TPMS memory) and you'll be okay for the 60 minute time period.

The situation above (street tires in the pits) would be similar to running with sensors in a pressurized container. However, in both cases, you could still have intermittent problems.

When the car is parked for more than 15 minutes the sensors go into a sleep mode to conserve battery life and only transmit once every 60 minutes. When you drive faster than 20 mph the sensors wake up and start transmitting once every 60 seconds.

So.....if you have sensors in a pressurized container, they aren't spinning and will only transmit once per hour. That could definitely lead to problems with a 2007 or newer TPMS that will only run 30 minutes without receiving any sensor signals before it automatically turns AH back full on.

At least that's the way it works in my '05 (now owned by my brother-in-law) and my '06.

Bob

 

Bob,

I edited my response a bunch of times. Sorry for that. I have XX on the readings for all tires (after doing the 80 miles in one go). Only then can i turn of AH fully. I don't think I can get the computer into competition mode though. But I don't use that anyway to make sure the breaks get maximum rest between break zones.

PeO.