What do you think would be more reliable. An E-Force supercharger or a cam and head kit from Trick-Flow. Each claims almost the same horsepower, but I want to do it and forget it, not work on it all the time.

I track my car a couple times a year and can't drive it as fast as it will go now, so I don't think I will abuse the motor either way.

 

I suggest the supercharger because they are still easy on fuel when your easy on the accelarator. Whereas the heads and cam, you are going to lose fuel mileage regardless and also depending on the size of cam, lose driveability.

 

Great Info!

Thanks!

 

That is about as inaccurate as you can get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timd38

What do you think would be more reliable. An E-Force supercharger or a cam and head kit from Trick-Flow. Each claims almost the same horsepower, but I want to do it and forget it, not work on it all the time.

I track my car a couple times a year and can't drive it as fast as it will go now, so I don't think I will abuse the motor either way.

There are things to look at.

The engine was not built for boost. Ideal would be forged with the correct compression to run boost. When we build an engine for boost we use different ring and bearings gaps not to mention a quality piston and rod and rod bolts.

There are band-aids like me th to help with running a s/c. The more moving parts and the more they all have to be coordinated the more chances for something to go wrong IMHO. Not that it cant be done but it isn't just 123 I'm done and runs forever without issue. Someone needs to fill that meth tank.

H/c is very reliable as much if not more than a s/c on an OEM engine.

Your gas mileage may actually increase as your power to weight ratio increases. Put your foot into it and your going to eat gas. Same as with a s/c. You don't make power without eating gas.

How much a s/c head unit weigh? That all goes on the nose of the car and thats 100 extra lbs.
I don't like the whine of a s/c personally so you have that as well. Belt slippage?

A s/c takes power to make power and that belt is on all the time, doesn't matter if your in boost or not it still taking energy to turn the belt.

There are a lot of things to think about.. budget and hp goals, dependability. What engine do you have?

s/c have become almost a fad. They are an awesome way to make big power, but you need an engine that is built for it as well as the fueling system and electronic controls in place to control it and hot days are not friendly to boost. There is a lot more to boost than just slapping on the eforce.

 

I'm listening....

 

I agree and disagreed....

In the past, there were many factory Eaton-type supercharged cars produced. Off the top of my head, there were 2: the Ford Thunderbird SC from 1989 thru 1995 (I owned 2 without any reliability issues) and Pontiac Grand Prix. These were pretty low pressure S/C engines, so the engines survived pretty well if the boost was not turned up. You are correct about forged components and different ring placement for S/C engines but this is more critical for high boost applications.

The Eaton-type S/C have been around a long time, so they are reliable. However, you make an excellent point that the more components there is, the more likely something will break. There is the maintenance of the belt and related components. Crank and rod set up is more critical to stand up to the much higher low RPM torque. The additional torque can put additional stress on other drive train components such as the transmission, clutch, gears, half shafts, etc.

Then there is the issue of weight. You are correct, the S/C systems add weight which can have secondary complications other engine components, suspension parts, bushings, etc.

Then there is the issue of under hood space. There is not much room left so there will be additional heat, which will impact the life of various underhood components.


Of course, cars with a head and cam cars have their issues, too.

Whenever the heads are rebuilt or modified or new aftermarket units, this raises the issue of how well they were built, rebuilt, modified, the quality of new parts, the condition of the core if rebuilt, casting material, etc.

With an aftermarket cam, there is always more lift added which increases the stress on valve train components such as springs, lifters, push rods, rocker arms, valves, valve seats, seals, and valve guides. Generally, more stress translates to a shorter life.

Also with a head/cam package, it will generally be rev'ed higher to produce the additional power,which will also increase stress on a variety of internal components and reduce the life.

However, today's parts are much higher quality, better alloys, and manufactured to closed tolerances than in years past. This means greatly reduced failures. The LX engines do not seem to suffer from any generic weak areas either.

It boils down to a personal choice. For me, I chose a short duration/high lift head/cam/intake/headers set up because I wanted a less complex and stock appearing set up. Also, I was not concerned about making huge numbers on the dyno. I ended up with 457 rwhp or about 40-50 rwhp below the E-Force but am satisfied with my decision.

But I must admit, the new E-Force S/C from Edelbrock is very tempting. It seems to be very well thought out system based on the Eaton 4-lobe TVS design which is similar to the one on the ZR1.

 

Yep all good points.

The h/c combo can be very reliable thought with the right components and I think the same can be said of the s/c with the exception of the engine unless it was built for it.

Not all h/c combo rev higher than stock though so it does really come down to application and what he currently has. Aftermarket heads usually have all the goodies attached already to make them dependable and I wont go into the lifter argument as there are to many non believers out there...LOL but your absolutely right. You need a proper combination if you want reliability.
I'm not a fan of huge cams on the stock bottom end either for just the reason you pointed out... the upper rpms required with that big cam. We've been trying to show people a little better way ( for abut the same price) by increasing cubic inches when it comes to making certain power levels.

Don't get me wrong, we/HKE have some s/c cars and trucks out there that are some of the fastest in the country but that is on a properly built engine for boost.
We offer either n/a engines or boost engines, but we don't like to boost engines built for n/a. I know low boost can get away with it but to me if I'm running boost its 12-16 lbs minimum or why bother

 

jesus, all he asked was what was more reliable. An e-force or a heads and cam. And your talking about belt slip and power to weight ratios and underhood area.

Let some other people put in their 2 cents.

 

For sure, this is not the end of the discussion ..LOL

Reliability is a big picture I tried to touch on some of the quicker details, there is a lot more to it than that.

 

The E-Force supercharger has a by-pass valve that opens during your typical around town cruising which helps to eliminate most of the parasitical loss mentioned above.

Personally, I like the roots style blower over a heads cam motor myself.

Callaway and Magnuson have been making S/C for years for vettes that have proven to be reliable. Elderbrock just joined into market with their systems. I saw it up at Carlisle this year and it seems like really nice system. If you're going to be tracking your car on a road race type circuit, I would stay away from any kind of supercharging and just stay naturally aspirated.

 

I think you see the issue. When you list the pluses and minuses, I struggle with what way to go.

Thanks!

 

Well if you're a serious road racer, like my bro is, then naturally aspirated is the only way to go.

Drop over to the Road Race section and see what the major players over there suggest. Most of the guys there like big cubes and torque for coming out of the corners.

 

Thanks! I think I have my answer.

 

Have you seen our LS2 457?


n/a is my personal preference but there are a lot of boost and n2o people out there as well and we cater to both.

 

Personally I like Elderbrock system since it fits under the hood and requires no hood change, but I'm a street cruiser and not into road racing.

Whats the dimensions on that stroker. To much crank or rod length tends to let the pistons rock a bit on the upper and lower portion of cylinder.

You can have a lot of fun with any engine combination if it's done right.

 

No n2o for me. Been there, done that 25 years ago.

I am leaning towards the TrickFlow Head and Cam kit. I am going to the NHRA event in Las Vegas and then SEMA, so about 6 more weeks until I pull the trigger...

 

4.135 bore x 4.250 stroke