4:10 gears or higher compression and E85 next?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 58
From: Benicia CA
4:10 gears or higher compression and E85 next?
I'm making 500hp and 450ft/lbs of torque, but it feels like my mid range is lacking. Looking for some feedback on which would make my car feel faster. Thinking about doing 4:10 gears or milling my heads .030" and retuning for E85. Right now my car hooks pretty good in first gear with the stock runflats, but I'm guessing it will be useless with the 4:10's. I think the higher compression with E85 will bump up my torque by 25-30. Both should cost about the same, maybe a bit more for the gears.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 14,553
Likes: 1,548
From: Supporting the Corvette Community at Abel Chevrolet in Rio Vista, CA 707-374-6317 Ext.123
St. Jude Donor '08
I'm making 500hp and 450ft/lbs of torque, but it feels like my mid range is lacking. Looking for some feedback on which would make my car feel faster. Thinking about doing 4:10 gears or milling my heads .030" and retuning for E85. Right now my car hooks pretty good in first gear with the stock runflats, but I'm guessing it will be useless with the 4:10's. I think the higher compression with E85 will bump up my torque by 25-30. Both should cost about the same, maybe a bit more for the gears.
E85 is great if setup for it, but it works even better if you can bump the compression more then what milling .030 will do. If you are headed down that road, bite the bullet and make the motor 13:1 or more to take advantage of what's available with corn brew and also modify the fuel system. The seat of the pants difference bewtween the 2 options you listed will likely be better from the gear swap.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
From: Louisville Kentucky
Do you live close to a station with E85 or not plan on taking the car on long trips? With a reduction of ~30% in fuel economy, it will sip the corn brew faster then gasoline.
E85 is great if setup for it, but it works even better if you can bump the compression more then what milling .030 will do. If you are headed down that road, bite the bullet and make the motor 13:1 or more to take advantage of what's available with corn brew and also modify the fuel system. The seat of the pants difference bewtween the 2 options you listed will likely be better from the gear swap.
E85 is great if setup for it, but it works even better if you can bump the compression more then what milling .030 will do. If you are headed down that road, bite the bullet and make the motor 13:1 or more to take advantage of what's available with corn brew and also modify the fuel system. The seat of the pants difference bewtween the 2 options you listed will likely be better from the gear swap.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
From: Columbus IN
Alki has 50% of the BTUs gasoline does so you have to double the amount you dump in just to break even. BUT with alki you can bump the compression 3 - 4 points and kick the spark up because it burns sooo much cooler. More HP.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Adding TQ does not replace the benefits of gearing which include a traction aid by slowing down the rate of rotation of the tires. Yes you break loose easier but it rehooks faster because the car catches up to the rate of rotation. Adding TQ with the same gearing just breaks you loose without slowing rate of rotation down and just like doing a 2nd gear burnout, it takes longer to rehook. A geared car can see a 1/2 sec reduction in 1/4 time from reduced 60 foots.
I have stroker, 17psi, and lots of traction with the MT ET street tire. 0-60 is 2.44 secs as confirmed by scans. JoeG sees 2.7secs 0-60's with his 3.90's and 450rwhp.
Gear it.
I have stroker, 17psi, and lots of traction with the MT ET street tire. 0-60 is 2.44 secs as confirmed by scans. JoeG sees 2.7secs 0-60's with his 3.90's and 450rwhp.
Gear it.
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 58
From: Benicia CA
Thanks for the input everyone. I'm definitely leaning towards the gears, but I don't drag race and don't plan to ever run slicks or even drag radials. The E85 is still a little tempting, but I'm convinced if I do that, I would have to mill the heads at least .050" and flycut the pistons. Since I live in CA, It could even help me pass the sniffer. Can anyone tell me how manageable 4:10's are with street tires?
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 14,553
Likes: 1,548
From: Supporting the Corvette Community at Abel Chevrolet in Rio Vista, CA 707-374-6317 Ext.123
St. Jude Donor '08
Thanks for the input everyone. I'm definitely leaning towards the gears, but I don't drag race and don't plan to ever run slicks or even drag radials. The E85 is still a little tempting, but I'm convinced if I do that, I would have to mill the heads at least .050" and flycut the pistons. Since I live in CA, It could even help me pass the sniffer. Can anyone tell me how manageable 4:10's are with street tires?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,073
Likes: 5
From: NJ
Is your car a z51 or base trans? Any hpde use?
I put in 3.90 gears in my c6 z51 4 years ago, and removed it before I had 700 miles on them. I absolutely hated it. With the low 1st gear in the z51 trans, it was annoying to drive. The increased noise from the trans gear noise, engine rpm, and constant shifting annoyed me to. On the road course I was shifting waaay too much. I sold my rear right away and went back to 3.42 and have never regretted it.
Now I may have felt differently if I had a base, or zr1 gearing, and I'm sure I would of loved it if I was still into drag racing.
I'm not knocking them or saying anyone is wrong for suggesting them, I'm just offering another perspective from first hand experience.
I should also note, that at the time, I had a 402 stroker with a fair amount of torque. The 3.42 made the engine much more drivable/usable.
I'm currently running a 468ci with over a 150 more rwtq than the 402 had, and now I don't like my z51 trans gearing and bought a new zr1 trans to use for the taller 1,2,3 gears. My only reservation is the shorter 6th gear in the zr1 trans. I want to see if I can re-gear 6th in the 6060 before it goes in.
I was actually thinking of installing a 3.15 rear with the z51 trans before I bought the tr6060.
To each their own.
I put in 3.90 gears in my c6 z51 4 years ago, and removed it before I had 700 miles on them. I absolutely hated it. With the low 1st gear in the z51 trans, it was annoying to drive. The increased noise from the trans gear noise, engine rpm, and constant shifting annoyed me to. On the road course I was shifting waaay too much. I sold my rear right away and went back to 3.42 and have never regretted it.
Now I may have felt differently if I had a base, or zr1 gearing, and I'm sure I would of loved it if I was still into drag racing.
I'm not knocking them or saying anyone is wrong for suggesting them, I'm just offering another perspective from first hand experience.
I should also note, that at the time, I had a 402 stroker with a fair amount of torque. The 3.42 made the engine much more drivable/usable.
I'm currently running a 468ci with over a 150 more rwtq than the 402 had, and now I don't like my z51 trans gearing and bought a new zr1 trans to use for the taller 1,2,3 gears. My only reservation is the shorter 6th gear in the zr1 trans. I want to see if I can re-gear 6th in the 6060 before it goes in.
I was actually thinking of installing a 3.15 rear with the z51 trans before I bought the tr6060.
To each their own.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,597
Likes: 3
From: READING PA
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,537
Likes: 1,403
From: Bethesda MD
I shift more going up through the gears, but then I don't have to come out of a high gear as often, so there is less downshifting in traffic.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 58
From: Benicia CA
I had 4:10s in my C5Z with about the same power you are making. It was a blast to drive, but 1st gear was completely worthless on street tires. 2nd would bairly hook if done just right and would blow them off if you simply stabbed the throttle. Seat of the pants gains were great, but it makde a much bigger difference on the drag strip.
Is your car a z51 or base trans? Any hpde use?
I put in 3.90 gears in my c6 z51 4 years ago, and removed it before I had 700 miles on them. I absolutely hated it. With the low 1st gear in the z51 trans, it was annoying to drive. The increased noise from the trans gear noise, engine rpm, and constant shifting annoyed me to. On the road course I was shifting waaay too much. I sold my rear right away and went back to 3.42 and have never regretted it.
Now I may have felt differently if I had a base, or zr1 gearing, and I'm sure I would of loved it if I was still into drag racing.
I'm not knocking them or saying anyone is wrong for suggesting them, I'm just offering another perspective from first hand experience.
I should also note, that at the time, I had a 402 stroker with a fair amount of torque. The 3.42 made the engine much more drivable/usable.
I'm currently running a 468ci with over a 150 more rwtq than the 402 had, and now I don't like my z51 trans gearing and bought a new zr1 trans to use for the taller 1,2,3 gears. My only reservation is the shorter 6th gear in the zr1 trans. I want to see if I can re-gear 6th in the 6060 before it goes in.
I was actually thinking of installing a 3.15 rear with the z51 trans before I bought the tr6060.
To each their own.
I put in 3.90 gears in my c6 z51 4 years ago, and removed it before I had 700 miles on them. I absolutely hated it. With the low 1st gear in the z51 trans, it was annoying to drive. The increased noise from the trans gear noise, engine rpm, and constant shifting annoyed me to. On the road course I was shifting waaay too much. I sold my rear right away and went back to 3.42 and have never regretted it.
Now I may have felt differently if I had a base, or zr1 gearing, and I'm sure I would of loved it if I was still into drag racing.
I'm not knocking them or saying anyone is wrong for suggesting them, I'm just offering another perspective from first hand experience.
I should also note, that at the time, I had a 402 stroker with a fair amount of torque. The 3.42 made the engine much more drivable/usable.
I'm currently running a 468ci with over a 150 more rwtq than the 402 had, and now I don't like my z51 trans gearing and bought a new zr1 trans to use for the taller 1,2,3 gears. My only reservation is the shorter 6th gear in the zr1 trans. I want to see if I can re-gear 6th in the 6060 before it goes in.
I was actually thinking of installing a 3.15 rear with the z51 trans before I bought the tr6060.
To each their own.
My cam is fine, i think it is just the ls3 in general.
Last edited by hungryhippo; Nov 21, 2010 at 07:09 PM.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 369
Likes: 2
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: Oklahoma City Oklahoma
I had 4.10 in my car with 630whp, and I hated them. Down low my car was a blast, but midway in 3rd/4th it would loose steam.
I called a few corvette shops, and all of them told me to put in 3.42. I should also say I don't do any dig racing, all of my racing is from a 40mph roll to about 140-150, that may of played a roll in them telling me that. But ECS did tell me all of the supercharged cars they do they leave 3.42 in them.
I called a few corvette shops, and all of them told me to put in 3.42. I should also say I don't do any dig racing, all of my racing is from a 40mph roll to about 140-150, that may of played a roll in them telling me that. But ECS did tell me all of the supercharged cars they do they leave 3.42 in them.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
From: Diamondhead Mississippi
Gears are for cars that don't make power (mustangs) or if you run on the drag strip if your in neither of these boats then find the real problem of why you are lacking in mid-range (cam) and fix it.
Usually my way of fixing things: Start out with the most simple/lease expensive solution and go from there. The last time I didn't follow that rule it cost me a crank.
Usually my way of fixing things: Start out with the most simple/lease expensive solution and go from there. The last time I didn't follow that rule it cost me a crank.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,999
Likes: 200
From: Bay Area Ca.
http://www.dtepowertrain.com/dte_06_z06_c6_diff.htm
DTE has complete Differential exchange starting at $1500. I have the stage 2 for $1850. Any gear ratio you want. They will want your old working Diff as a core deposit or you will be charged an xtra $1800. DTE has a excellent reputation for their Differentials. Another Vendor is RPM. Both are Forum sponsors, at least the last time I checked. In this economy hard to keep up.
DTE has complete Differential exchange starting at $1500. I have the stage 2 for $1850. Any gear ratio you want. They will want your old working Diff as a core deposit or you will be charged an xtra $1800. DTE has a excellent reputation for their Differentials. Another Vendor is RPM. Both are Forum sponsors, at least the last time I checked. In this economy hard to keep up.