2011 GS - Axle Nuts Loose
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 7
From: Bristol raceway area
TSB 07-04-95-001a
LINK- Scroll down to "airbuspilot"
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...a-warning.html
LINK- Scroll down to "airbuspilot"
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...a-warning.html
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 772
Likes: 6
From: Huntsville AL
New nuts is because of stretching of the threads. Same as why you use new head bolts. When a bolt or nut is torqued, there is a certain amount of stretch. Every time you retorque, you get more stretch. Eventually the bolt/nut will fail from metal fatigue due to this stretching.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,697
Likes: 2
From: Houston Texas
TSB 07-04-95-001a
LINK- Scroll down to "airbuspilot"
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...a-warning.html
LINK- Scroll down to "airbuspilot"
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...a-warning.html
Thank you!
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,548
Likes: 609
From: Southeast, WI
Never said anything about checking them constantly for tightness. When i discovered this issue on the forum i checked mine and as stated, the Right Nut was only Finger Tight. If that is fine with you, great. That Is Not acceptable to me. They shouldn't have to be checked at all. I don't share your approach on this. There is no lack of evidence because of all the loose axle nuts reported. If it wasn't an issue GM wouldn't have issued a TSB on it.
I stand by my statement earlier that if enough lateral "movement" is introduced to the axle shaft by way of a loose axle nut to possibly cause damage then it is a Quality problem and it's been going on for years.
I stand by my statement earlier that if enough lateral "movement" is introduced to the axle shaft by way of a loose axle nut to possibly cause damage then it is a Quality problem and it's been going on for years.
If it wasn't a big deal, they wouldn't have put the nut on in the first place.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
I have an 06 and the nuts kept coming loose. I know it is part of the TSB, but they were still coming loose after the fix. I installed the SKF performance bearings that Pfadt and LG sell and used new nuts again and they have not come loose since.
Maybe the bearings can't take the load, so that makes the nut appear to be loose, even though it was torqued to the proper spec.
Just a thought.
Maybe the bearings can't take the load, so that makes the nut appear to be loose, even though it was torqued to the proper spec.
Just a thought.
Your narrative here makes absolute sense and for those who will heed the warning: I marked the axle nut and axle with a dab of red paint. When my axle came loose the marks were stilll aligned.
Deciper meaning: The nuts arent turnng on the axle. They are crushing the bearing with the load thats too high or its pulling along the length of the axle weakening the tensile strength.
My solution: Red locktite and TQ to 100lbs. If 100 can keep the wheels on, they arent going anywhere. The axles cant 'fall out'. The car would still function if the nuts fell off. The end result is that if the nuts arent off, they are tight enough to hold the axle in place.
Mark the nut and axle in this way. If the mark is aligned, dont take out your TQ wrench. eventually the repeated tightening and over TQ'ing to 160 will cause the break at the base of the spindle in much the same way you used to snap a drinking straw in half in the elementary school lunch room with the flick of your finger. Pulling along the length of the spindle with that much TQ, weakens it.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Some guys heard a rattle and found that the nut actually fell off and it was still drivable. I would rather have the nut fall off than the axle break in 1/2 on the hiway, locking up a wheel or taking out the cradle.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
My dealer replaced the axle nuts on my new 09 Z06 with only 380 miles on it. It is important to put new nuts on and loctite them. Don't reuse the old nuts, as you can't get an accurate torque reading.
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Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,231
Likes: 451
From: Maryland
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 3
From: Austin, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Dallas, Hong Kong, Elgin, etc.. Texas
Long ago i stopped wasting my time when people would say GM knows best but here is my experience: I broke 2 axles and both were after the GM 'fix.
Your narrative here makes absolute sense and for those who will heed the warning: I marked the axle nut and axle with a dab of red paint. When my axle came loose the marks were stilll aligned.
Deciper meaning: The nuts arent turnng on the axle. They are crushing the bearing with the load thats too high or its pulling along the length of the axle weakening the tensile strength.
My solution: Red locktite and TQ to 100lbs. If 100 can keep the wheels on, they arent going anywhere. The axles cant 'fall out'. The car would still function if the nuts fell off. The end result is that if the nuts arent off, they are tight enough to hold the axle in place.
Mark the nut and axle in this way. If the mark is aligned, dont take out your TQ wrench. eventually the repeated tightening and over TQ'ing to 160 will cause the break at the base of the spindle in much the same way you used to snap a drinking straw in half in the elementary school lunch room with the flick of your finger. Pulling along the length of the spindle with that much TQ, weakens it.
Your narrative here makes absolute sense and for those who will heed the warning: I marked the axle nut and axle with a dab of red paint. When my axle came loose the marks were stilll aligned.
Deciper meaning: The nuts arent turnng on the axle. They are crushing the bearing with the load thats too high or its pulling along the length of the axle weakening the tensile strength.
My solution: Red locktite and TQ to 100lbs. If 100 can keep the wheels on, they arent going anywhere. The axles cant 'fall out'. The car would still function if the nuts fell off. The end result is that if the nuts arent off, they are tight enough to hold the axle in place.
Mark the nut and axle in this way. If the mark is aligned, dont take out your TQ wrench. eventually the repeated tightening and over TQ'ing to 160 will cause the break at the base of the spindle in much the same way you used to snap a drinking straw in half in the elementary school lunch room with the flick of your finger. Pulling along the length of the spindle with that much TQ, weakens it.
For the first time, I checked my axle nuts over the weekend and they were both loose. I turned them about 1/4 turn but did not put a torque wrench on them or locktite yet.
Something tells me the issue with the high initial torque is to get the axle to properly seat with the hub assembly. I would have to think the reason for the nuts coming loose is axle/threads stretch as someone stated earlier. Can someone confirm this?
From what I understand, to keep re-torquing the nut does not seem a good procedure and ,as Spin states, could cause the axle to eventually to break. All you want to do is make sure they don't come off which Locktite will do.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
The nuts are designed with some distorted threads to help keep them from loosening . This creates a drag when tightning the nut. Once the nuts have been used, there is less drag when tightning, thus it throws off the torque reading. It's just like tightning a dry nut vs an oiled nut. You use less torque when tighning an oiled nut then a dry one or you will over stretch the bolt.
160 lbs ft of torque on a new nut will not stretch the lug bolt as much as tighning an old bolt. If you keep tighning a nut without the disorted threads, to the torque required for a new one, you will stretch the bolt each time you retighten, evenually ending in failure of the bolt.
160 lbs ft of torque on a new nut will not stretch the lug bolt as much as tighning an old bolt. If you keep tighning a nut without the disorted threads, to the torque required for a new one, you will stretch the bolt each time you retighten, evenually ending in failure of the bolt.
Last edited by JoesC5; Mar 29, 2011 at 07:39 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,231
Likes: 451
From: Maryland
Did not know that the nuts were designed with some distorted threads which would change the effective/actual torque but then again so would using liquid thread locker which the factory did not use. Thread locker would eliminate the need for distorted threads so reusing the nuts with Loctite and say 100/120 ft. lbs. of torque should do the job permanently being that the assembly has already been seated.
So the next time that I take the rear wheels off I am going to take the nuts off and clean the shaft threads with a good cleaner like gumout or brake clean, than add some 272/red loctite to the shaft threads and retorque the nuts to 100 ft. lbs. like SpinMonster suggested. OH, and like Spin said mark the nut to shaft thread placement for future reference.
PS: You could also give those "shafts and nuts"
a light coating of spray paint so no rust appears for a long time.
So the next time that I take the rear wheels off I am going to take the nuts off and clean the shaft threads with a good cleaner like gumout or brake clean, than add some 272/red loctite to the shaft threads and retorque the nuts to 100 ft. lbs. like SpinMonster suggested. OH, and like Spin said mark the nut to shaft thread placement for future reference.
PS: You could also give those "shafts and nuts"
a light coating of spray paint so no rust appears for a long time.
Last edited by C7/Z06 Man; Mar 30, 2011 at 01:03 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,024
Likes: 13
From: Loveland CO to Central Coast CA
"...The spindle nuts are not intended to be re-torqued because they have a concave surface on the bottom that flattens at torque to mate intimately with the face. This is intended to really be a one shot deal..."
See Talon90's posts 36 - 39: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...-danger-2.html
See Talon90's posts 36 - 39: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...-danger-2.html
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 32
From: Central Florida
At track rentals and events, routine pre-pass PM includes (1) cleaning up racers' the clutch fluid and checking the rear axle nuts for correct torque.
Virtually all the Corvettes I've checked (C5, C6, Z06, ZR1) have had one or both side axle nuts loose. We routinely retorque them to 160. None has come loose again when rechecked at the subsequent events.
Passenger-side tends to show more looseness because that one takes a heavier torque load on launch due to the rotational force of driveline.
FYI, I retorqued my axle nuts with lock-tite blue in CY2006. 200+ passes at the drag strip later, the nuts have not come loose again.
Ranger
Virtually all the Corvettes I've checked (C5, C6, Z06, ZR1) have had one or both side axle nuts loose. We routinely retorque them to 160. None has come loose again when rechecked at the subsequent events.
Passenger-side tends to show more looseness because that one takes a heavier torque load on launch due to the rotational force of driveline.
FYI, I retorqued my axle nuts with lock-tite blue in CY2006. 200+ passes at the drag strip later, the nuts have not come loose again.
Ranger
Last edited by Ranger; Apr 15, 2011 at 07:23 AM.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 486
Likes: 2
From: The Villages FL
Those of you who have concerns about the rear wheel axle nuts comming loose I suggest that your read and reread posts 12, 19 and 26. The TSB on this subject is a solution to a non existant problem. The proper torque for that nut is 118 lb-ft. you can reassemble with loctite or double nut with PN 10257766 torqued 100 lb-ft. DO NOT RETORQUE THE ASSEMBLY OVER AND OVER AS YOU WILL FAIL THE DRIVE SHAFT. Bill S.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 32
From: Central Florida
At track rentals and events, routine pre-pass PM includes (1) cleaning up racers' the clutch fluid and checking the rear axle nuts for correct torque.
Virtually all the Corvettes I've checked (C5, C6, Z06, ZR1) have had one or both side axle nuts loose. We routinely retorque them to 160. None has come loose again when rechecked at the subsequent events.
Passenger-side tends to show more looseness because that one takes a heavier torque load on launch due to the rotational force of driveline.
FYI, I retorqued my axle nuts with lock-tite blue in CY2006. 200+ passes at the drag strip later, the nuts have not come loose again.
Ranger
Virtually all the Corvettes I've checked (C5, C6, Z06, ZR1) have had one or both side axle nuts loose. We routinely retorque them to 160. None has come loose again when rechecked at the subsequent events.
Passenger-side tends to show more looseness because that one takes a heavier torque load on launch due to the rotational force of driveline.
FYI, I retorqued my axle nuts with lock-tite blue in CY2006. 200+ passes at the drag strip later, the nuts have not come loose again.
Ranger
I've personally checked the axle nut torque on around 100 Corvettes at the track. We've set them all to 160. And that assortment of cars has subsequently run thousands of passes down 1320' of prepared racing surface, where traction on launch and shift transitions stresses the driveline, including the connectors attaching the wheels.
None of these cars have broken a single driveline part nor sustained a warranty issue relating to axles or differentials.
While opinions expressed in this thread vary...I'll continue using the 160 torque figure specified by GM because it's a one-shot fix proven through testing at the track I've personally conducted.
Ranger
Racer
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 486
Likes: 2
From: The Villages FL
GM sets the torque spec for the axle nuts at 160. And the company bears the warranty responsibility. That should tell you something.
I've personally checked the axle nut torque on around 100 Corvettes at the track. We've set them all to 160. And that assortment of cars has subsequently run thousands of passes down 1320' of prepared racing surface, where traction on launch and shift transitions stresses the driveline, including the connectors attaching the wheels.
None of these cars have broken a single driveline part nor sustained a warranty issue relating to axles or differentials.
While opinions expressed in this thread vary...I'll continue using the 160 torque figure specified by GM because it's a one-shot fix proven through testing at the track I've personally conducted.
Ranger
I've personally checked the axle nut torque on around 100 Corvettes at the track. We've set them all to 160. And that assortment of cars has subsequently run thousands of passes down 1320' of prepared racing surface, where traction on launch and shift transitions stresses the driveline, including the connectors attaching the wheels.
None of these cars have broken a single driveline part nor sustained a warranty issue relating to axles or differentials.
While opinions expressed in this thread vary...I'll continue using the 160 torque figure specified by GM because it's a one-shot fix proven through testing at the track I've personally conducted.
Ranger
