4.10 gears: A new perspective
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
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From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
4.10 gears: A new perspective
A Z51 with 4.10's in second gear is still steeper than the ZR1 in 1st gear. You read that right, starting in second is actually steeper but near the same final ratio as a ZR1 in first (meaning its less stress on the clutch for a Z51 starting in 2nd).
The Math:
The ZR1's transmission has a 2.29 first gear and a 3.42 rear gear ratio for a final drive ratio of 7.83.
I know, there is nothing new under the sun; or is there?
The Z51 has a 2.97 first gear and a 2.07 second gear. With 4.10's the Z51 in second gear has a final drive ratio of 8.49
So the Z51 is still steeper in second than a Zr1 in first.
A ZR1 with 3.73's would be 2.29 x 3.73 for a final drive ratio of 8.54.
So if you think the ZR1 has it right, you can of course just start in second gear if you dont want to shift so fast. Its still more gear than a stock ZR1 in 1st gear. You can save 1st gear on your Z51 for needful situations but still relax knowing youre not hurting anything by starting in 2nd.
For those displeased with 4.10's because they think its the reason for spinning tires, save your money, stop whining, and start in 2nd gear...........
Its one of those things that makes you go.....hmmmmmmmm
This isnt meant to be a serious thread..........
The Math:
The ZR1's transmission has a 2.29 first gear and a 3.42 rear gear ratio for a final drive ratio of 7.83.
I know, there is nothing new under the sun; or is there?
The Z51 has a 2.97 first gear and a 2.07 second gear. With 4.10's the Z51 in second gear has a final drive ratio of 8.49
So the Z51 is still steeper in second than a Zr1 in first.
A ZR1 with 3.73's would be 2.29 x 3.73 for a final drive ratio of 8.54.
So if you think the ZR1 has it right, you can of course just start in second gear if you dont want to shift so fast. Its still more gear than a stock ZR1 in 1st gear. You can save 1st gear on your Z51 for needful situations but still relax knowing youre not hurting anything by starting in 2nd.
For those displeased with 4.10's because they think its the reason for spinning tires, save your money, stop whining, and start in 2nd gear...........
Its one of those things that makes you go.....hmmmmmmmm
Now for the really cool feature making 4.10's the freekin bomb!!
2nd gear on a Z51 with 4.10's allows you to run 0-60 without shifting!
This isnt meant to be a serious thread..........
Last edited by SpinMonster; Feb 19, 2011 at 04:17 AM.
Safety Car
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wow... awesome info/new way of looking at things... I had always wondered what I'd do with 1st gear in my Z51 if I made the jump to 4.10's, so I'd just been looking at 3.90's. Very cool info.
Depending on people's power though, 4th gear will now only be good for 126mph w/o requiring a shift to 5th.
I think the 3.90's would still be geared shorter than a zr1 first gear though, correct? And you could run 4th out to 133mph.
Depending on people's power though, 4th gear will now only be good for 126mph w/o requiring a shift to 5th.
I think the 3.90's would still be geared shorter than a zr1 first gear though, correct? And you could run 4th out to 133mph.
Last edited by turbotuner20v; Feb 18, 2011 at 11:16 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,368
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From: dfw Texas
the Zr1 has taller gears but the gear to gear ratio is narrow.. the z51 1-2 is fairly close but 3-5 have much greater RPM drop then the base z06 or Zr1..
3-4 in z51 is TERRIBLE regardless of 3.42s.. 3.90s or 4.10s..
3-4 in z51 is TERRIBLE regardless of 3.42s.. 3.90s or 4.10s..
Safety Car
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Rpm drops:
1st – 2nd : 4,530
2nd – 3rd : 4,490
3rd – 4th : 4,545
4th – 5th : 4,615
5th – 6th : 5,218
Here's the RPM drops for a 6500rpm motor w/ base/Z06 gears:
Rpm drops:
1-2 : 4,350
2-3 : 4,747
3-4 : 5,000
4-5 : 4,810
5-6 : 4,392
Here's the RPM drops for a 6500rpm motor w/ ZR1 gears:
Rpm drops:
1-2 : 4,570
2-3 : 4,885
3-4 : 5,372
4-5 : 5,265
5-6 : 5,377
It's almost like the Z51 is designed to drop you right into the peak of the torque band:
Last edited by turbotuner20v; Feb 18, 2011 at 12:10 PM.
Team Owner
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From: salem OR
Here is the RPM drops for a 6500rpm motor w/ Z51 gears:
Rpm drops:
1st – 2nd : 4,530
2nd – 3rd : 4,490
3rd – 4th : 4,545
4th – 5th : 4,615
5th – 6th : 5,218
Here's the RPM drops for a 6500rpm motor w/ base/Z06 gears:
Rpm drops:
1-2 : 4,350
2-3 : 4,747
3-4 : 5,000
4-5 : 4,810
5-6 : 4,392
Here's the RPM drops for a 6500rpm motor w/ ZR1 gears:
Rpm drops:
1-2 : 4,570
2-3 : 4,885
3-4 : 5,372
4-5 : 5,265
5-6 : 5,377
Rpm drops:
1st – 2nd : 4,530
2nd – 3rd : 4,490
3rd – 4th : 4,545
4th – 5th : 4,615
5th – 6th : 5,218
Here's the RPM drops for a 6500rpm motor w/ base/Z06 gears:
Rpm drops:
1-2 : 4,350
2-3 : 4,747
3-4 : 5,000
4-5 : 4,810
5-6 : 4,392
Here's the RPM drops for a 6500rpm motor w/ ZR1 gears:
Rpm drops:
1-2 : 4,570
2-3 : 4,885
3-4 : 5,372
4-5 : 5,265
5-6 : 5,377
So refigure them then repost, Because the base tranny is closer ratio in
1-4 over the Z-51. So it has Less RPM drop, you show more first to second. It's wrong!
Safety Car
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,368
Likes: 30
From: dfw Texas
the z51 is good for a right RR coarse.. but for Standing mile or a drag race . base/z0/zr1 > Z51.
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Tech Contributor
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From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
For the standing mile event it doesn't matter as you are at or near redline in 5th by the end.
I don't think I could get my 2.625 second 0-60 time starting out in 2nd gear...but I guess I could try!
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
I have no clue how there are two of the same thread???
Anyway, to the guy that posted about RPM drops, modded cars raise the rev limiter and thus add about 400rpm up top and they fall to a higher rpm by that amount.
The Z06 rev limiter is 7200 and the ZR1 I dont know but asume its higher than 6500.
All base C6's are 6600.
Anyway, to the guy that posted about RPM drops, modded cars raise the rev limiter and thus add about 400rpm up top and they fall to a higher rpm by that amount.
The Z06 rev limiter is 7200 and the ZR1 I dont know but asume its higher than 6500.
All base C6's are 6600.
Tech Contributor
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From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
Base transmissions almost always seem to trap higher then the Z51 cars because on the 3-4 shift the z51 cars drop well out of the power band VS the Base car drop to 5200ish on 3-4 and are still well in the meat of the tire.
Almost every car on the "Fastest list" has a Base tranny if i recall right. the z51 tranny ratios are better suited to road racing.
Almost every car on the "Fastest list" has a Base tranny if i recall right. the z51 tranny ratios are better suited to road racing.
Look where the z51 trans puts you for each shift and look where the torque peak is. I happened to type this up a while back so it's handy.
Here is my scan from my 11.168 run.
Note I was accelerating to 100% just before launch and I left it matted throughout the entire launch process. RPM is the red line on top and TPS (accelerator) is the green line in the 3rd section.
Launch RPM 5648
RPM dropped to 3890 during launch despite throttle at 100% prior to car moving.
1-2 shift 6946
2nd starts at 5267
2-3 shift 6795
3rd starts at 5180
3-4 shift 6843
4th starts at 4833
Here is the the scan and the dyno sheet for your analysis convenience.
Note I was accelerating to 100% just before launch and I left it matted throughout the entire launch process. RPM is the red line on top and TPS (accelerator) is the green line in the 3rd section.
Launch RPM 5648
RPM dropped to 3890 during launch despite throttle at 100% prior to car moving.
1-2 shift 6946
2nd starts at 5267
2-3 shift 6795
3rd starts at 5180
3-4 shift 6843
4th starts at 4833
Here is the the scan and the dyno sheet for your analysis convenience.
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
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From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
As I posted in the other thread, this was a spoof on the people who think 4.10's make 1st gear useless.
It wasnt meant to be serious even though it seems to make sense.
It wasnt meant to be serious even though it seems to make sense.
Safety Car
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so which is easier to launch... a Z51 car w/ 4.10's in 1st gear or in 2nd gear?
I know there have been some times where i've been on a track in mexico where there was no prep and traction was difficult at launch, as well as the 1-2 shift... if I had a gearing setup where I could more easily start from 2nd and not have to make the 1-2 shift, it would probably result in a better start to the race.
I see now that this idea was some kind of joke for the guys who didn't like Z51 1st gear w/ 4.10's, but I'm actually interested how the ease of driveability would compare.
On a prepped track that more easily holds the launch as well as a hard 1/2 shift, the lower gearing of 1st w/ the 4.10's is probably an advantage to get out of the hole better... but that's not always the conditions.
I know there have been some times where i've been on a track in mexico where there was no prep and traction was difficult at launch, as well as the 1-2 shift... if I had a gearing setup where I could more easily start from 2nd and not have to make the 1-2 shift, it would probably result in a better start to the race.
I see now that this idea was some kind of joke for the guys who didn't like Z51 1st gear w/ 4.10's, but I'm actually interested how the ease of driveability would compare.
On a prepped track that more easily holds the launch as well as a hard 1/2 shift, the lower gearing of 1st w/ the 4.10's is probably an advantage to get out of the hole better... but that's not always the conditions.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,393
Likes: 2,911
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Here is the RPM drops for a 6500rpm motor w/ Z51 gears:
Rpm drops:
1st – 2nd : 4,530
2nd – 3rd : 4,490
3rd – 4th : 4,545
4th – 5th : 4,615
5th – 6th : 5,218
Here's the RPM drops for a 6500rpm motor w/ base/Z06 gears:
Rpm drops:
1-2 : 4,350
2-3 : 4,747
3-4 : 5,000
4-5 : 4,810
5-6 : 4,392
Here's the RPM drops for a 6500rpm motor w/ ZR1 gears:
Rpm drops:
1-2 : 4,570
2-3 : 4,885
3-4 : 5,372
4-5 : 5,265
5-6 : 5,377
It's almost like the Z51 is designed to drop you right into the peak of the torque band:
Rpm drops:
1st – 2nd : 4,530
2nd – 3rd : 4,490
3rd – 4th : 4,545
4th – 5th : 4,615
5th – 6th : 5,218
Here's the RPM drops for a 6500rpm motor w/ base/Z06 gears:
Rpm drops:
1-2 : 4,350
2-3 : 4,747
3-4 : 5,000
4-5 : 4,810
5-6 : 4,392
Here's the RPM drops for a 6500rpm motor w/ ZR1 gears:
Rpm drops:
1-2 : 4,570
2-3 : 4,885
3-4 : 5,372
4-5 : 5,265
5-6 : 5,377
It's almost like the Z51 is designed to drop you right into the peak of the torque band:
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
so which is easier to launch... a Z51 car w/ 4.10's in 1st gear or in 2nd gear?
I know there have been some times where i've been on a track in mexico where there was no prep and traction was difficult at launch, as well as the 1-2 shift... if I had a gearing setup where I could more easily start from 2nd and not have to make the 1-2 shift, it would probably result in a better start to the race.
I see now that this idea was some kind of joke for the guys who didn't like Z51 1st gear w/ 4.10's, but I'm actually interested how the ease of driveability would compare.
On a prepped track that more easily holds the launch as well as a hard 1/2 shift, the lower gearing of 1st w/ the 4.10's is probably an advantage to get out of the hole better... but that's not always the conditions.
I know there have been some times where i've been on a track in mexico where there was no prep and traction was difficult at launch, as well as the 1-2 shift... if I had a gearing setup where I could more easily start from 2nd and not have to make the 1-2 shift, it would probably result in a better start to the race.
I see now that this idea was some kind of joke for the guys who didn't like Z51 1st gear w/ 4.10's, but I'm actually interested how the ease of driveability would compare.
On a prepped track that more easily holds the launch as well as a hard 1/2 shift, the lower gearing of 1st w/ the 4.10's is probably an advantage to get out of the hole better... but that's not always the conditions.
It's hard I guess to understand until you've driven it, and hard to explain, but here's perhaps an example.
My buddy wanted me to do a burnout for his kid on the street the other day. I found I couldn't do a burnout - the car was just spinning a little, then hooking up and going. If I'd started in 2nd gear, it would have just spun wildly, it would just sit there and spin and do a smoke show. You know how it is when you get a car spinning and it loses forward momentum and just sits and spins? You can't really do that with the z51 trans and 4:10's. It will start spinning but the car catches up to the spin (unless you're using a line lock) and it goes.
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
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From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Why? Because while the overall final drive ratio may be the same, the ZR1 trans would see much less stress because those gears are 30% beefier. The trans gear is 10% more gear with 20% less gear in the diff. (Less stress at the transmission).
A friend of mine used this very same idea and used to run his car (TT 1050rw Z51-at sea level in NY) from 3rd down low at 30 all the way to 105. He cracked 3rd gear in the trans twice.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
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From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
I should also note that I've got 50,000+ miles and 433 hard 5000-6000 rpm launches on my original equipment clutch. Was getting 1.49-1.55's at my last outing.
I don't think I would have gotten near the life out of my clutch with 3:42 gears. The 2.97 first gear and 4.10 rear are giving me a lot of leverage out of the hole which eases the burden on my clutch.
I don't think I would have gotten near the life out of my clutch with 3:42 gears. The 2.97 first gear and 4.10 rear are giving me a lot of leverage out of the hole which eases the burden on my clutch.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,393
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From: Fort Worth, Texas
I should also note that I've got 50,000+ miles and 433 hard 5000-6000 rpm launches on my original equipment clutch. Was getting 1.49-1.55's at my last outing.
I don't think I would have gotten near the life out of my clutch with 3:42 gears. The 2.97 first gear and 4.10 rear are giving me a lot of leverage out of the hole which eases the burden on my clutch.
I don't think I would have gotten near the life out of my clutch with 3:42 gears. The 2.97 first gear and 4.10 rear are giving me a lot of leverage out of the hole which eases the burden on my clutch.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
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From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
But when it finally goes I'll be calling you for a Monster...I got a report today from MIR that FARTPIPE is Wailing on his and it keeps coming back for more!
I just need someone to make gears for the z06 rear, I was speaking to RatttG last week at the track and if HE can't break k
one of those with 1.36 off the rev limiter nos induced 60 foots.....they must be just about unbreakable. He said he laughs himself every time he launches...he can't believe what that thing takes.
Team Owner
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From: salem OR
spreads between gears
1.ZO6 2.Z51
1-2 .88 .90
2-3 .48 .64
3-4 .30 .43
4-5 .26 .29
So these mean your figures are wrong. The base/zo6 tranny is closer
ratio in the first five. So here you go! The smaller the spread the less
the RPM drop.
1.ZO6 2.Z51
1-2 .88 .90
2-3 .48 .64
3-4 .30 .43
4-5 .26 .29
So these mean your figures are wrong. The base/zo6 tranny is closer
ratio in the first five. So here you go! The smaller the spread the less
the RPM drop.
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; Feb 18, 2011 at 10:34 PM.