Recommend a stroker for me (LS2)
05-11-2011, 02:04 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Member Since: Aug 2008
Location: Tampa (Cigar City) (The Big Sombrero)
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Recommend a stroker for me (LS2)
First let me say that I have very little mechanical knowledge, so some of these questions might seem elementary.
I am debating pulling my LS2 and making it into a stroker. When I had a brief discussion with some friends that know a thing or two about strokers, they suggested that I do a 414ci stroker. I’m assuming(?) that is done by purchasing a 403/404 stroker kit with a bigger crank?
Anyway, I’d like to hear some recommendations. Which stroker kit should I look at.
Should I also change my cam to one that would work better with a stroker kit, or is the one that I have a good match? I currently have a 231/235 113.0 cam. If I do change the cam, I am assuming that the labor would be MUCH cheaper than a regular cam swap, since the motor would be apart anyway.
Should I look for different heads. I currently have ETP 225s. I’m assuming that the labor on the heads change would also be cheaper than a normal head swap since the engine would already be apart (?).
I currently put down 476rwhp/425rwtq uncorrected through an A6. What would be a realistic estimated rwhp/rwtq if I went with a 404 or 414 stroker?
Also what disadvantages would I be looking at. I’ve read that I might not be able to take the RPMS as high. Maybe I read that wrong.
Anyone regret doing a stroker?
What would I be looking at as far as an estimated labor charge to pull the engine and put the stroker together, then reassemble? I need an estimated total turnkey price so that the boss can say yea or nay.
Any recommendations/advice would be greatly appreciated.
I am debating pulling my LS2 and making it into a stroker. When I had a brief discussion with some friends that know a thing or two about strokers, they suggested that I do a 414ci stroker. I’m assuming(?) that is done by purchasing a 403/404 stroker kit with a bigger crank?
Anyway, I’d like to hear some recommendations. Which stroker kit should I look at.
Should I also change my cam to one that would work better with a stroker kit, or is the one that I have a good match? I currently have a 231/235 113.0 cam. If I do change the cam, I am assuming that the labor would be MUCH cheaper than a regular cam swap, since the motor would be apart anyway.
Should I look for different heads. I currently have ETP 225s. I’m assuming that the labor on the heads change would also be cheaper than a normal head swap since the engine would already be apart (?).
I currently put down 476rwhp/425rwtq uncorrected through an A6. What would be a realistic estimated rwhp/rwtq if I went with a 404 or 414 stroker?
Also what disadvantages would I be looking at. I’ve read that I might not be able to take the RPMS as high. Maybe I read that wrong.
Anyone regret doing a stroker?
What would I be looking at as far as an estimated labor charge to pull the engine and put the stroker together, then reassemble? I need an estimated total turnkey price so that the boss can say yea or nay.
Any recommendations/advice would be greatly appreciated.
05-11-2011, 07:40 AM
#3
The going rate seems to be $2k or so... I'm doing a stroker now. I called several shops and most of them are in that ballpark for the swap.
First let me say that I have very little mechanical knowledge, so some of these questions might seem elementary.
I am debating pulling my LS2 and making it into a stroker. When I had a brief discussion with some friends that know a thing or two about strokers, they suggested that I do a 414ci stroker. I’m assuming(?) that is done by purchasing a 403/404 stroker kit with a bigger crank?
Anyway, I’d like to hear some recommendations. Which stroker kit should I look at.
Should I also change my cam to one that would work better with a stroker kit, or is the one that I have a good match? I currently have a 231/235 113.0 cam. If I do change the cam, I am assuming that the labor would be MUCH cheaper than a regular cam swap, since the motor would be apart anyway.
Should I look for different heads. I currently have ETP 225s. I’m assuming that the labor on the heads change would also be cheaper than a normal head swap since the engine would already be apart (?).
I currently put down 476rwhp/425rwtq uncorrected through an A6. What would be a realistic estimated rwhp/rwtq if I went with a 404 or 414 stroker?
Also what disadvantages would I be looking at. I’ve read that I might not be able to take the RPMS as high. Maybe I read that wrong.
Anyone regret doing a stroker?
What would I be looking at as far as an estimated labor charge to pull the engine and put the stroker together, then reassemble? I need an estimated total turnkey price so that the boss can say yea or nay.
Any recommendations/advice would be greatly appreciated.
I am debating pulling my LS2 and making it into a stroker. When I had a brief discussion with some friends that know a thing or two about strokers, they suggested that I do a 414ci stroker. I’m assuming(?) that is done by purchasing a 403/404 stroker kit with a bigger crank?
Anyway, I’d like to hear some recommendations. Which stroker kit should I look at.
Should I also change my cam to one that would work better with a stroker kit, or is the one that I have a good match? I currently have a 231/235 113.0 cam. If I do change the cam, I am assuming that the labor would be MUCH cheaper than a regular cam swap, since the motor would be apart anyway.
Should I look for different heads. I currently have ETP 225s. I’m assuming that the labor on the heads change would also be cheaper than a normal head swap since the engine would already be apart (?).
I currently put down 476rwhp/425rwtq uncorrected through an A6. What would be a realistic estimated rwhp/rwtq if I went with a 404 or 414 stroker?
Also what disadvantages would I be looking at. I’ve read that I might not be able to take the RPMS as high. Maybe I read that wrong.
Anyone regret doing a stroker?
What would I be looking at as far as an estimated labor charge to pull the engine and put the stroker together, then reassemble? I need an estimated total turnkey price so that the boss can say yea or nay.
Any recommendations/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by xstang; 05-11-2011 at 07:42 AM.
05-12-2011, 11:25 AM
#5
I can't help you with referances ; but keep in mind that you are now making about 1.25 HP /c.i. - so stroking with out changing anything else should net you about 45 HP.
Also remember you are at a level that mandates the componets work together ; so your changes must work ,or you will be disappointed.
Also remember you are at a level that mandates the componets work together ; so your changes must work ,or you will be disappointed.
05-12-2011, 10:39 PM
#7
Safety Car
what power level are you trying to reach? FI might be a better way to go.
Another thing to consider is selling your motor and staring from scratch. Match the heads and cam to the displacement.
Another thing to consider is selling your motor and staring from scratch. Match the heads and cam to the displacement.
05-12-2011, 11:37 PM
#8
Do you plan on pulling the motor yourself and reinstalling it yourself? I had a 412ci stroker built for my car over the fall. It's going to be more expensive than slapping on a blower. Final price will certainly depend on the parts you use but to give you a ballpark I'd say anywhere between 7-10k depending on the heads and cam you use. That's including parts, install, dyno, etc. Many perks from going with the stroker for myself so I don't regret doing it. Reliable, sounds great, makes good low end torque. Daily drive mine as well. GL on the build.
Greg
Greg
05-13-2011, 02:00 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Member Since: Aug 2008
Location: Tampa (Cigar City) (The Big Sombrero)
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I already have ETP 225 heads, so unless there is something that would be a great improvement over these heads, I wont have to spend $ on heads. But if you think there is a better match for a 414ci LS2 stroker, then please tell me which heads I should look at. Same with the cam.
I don't have any rwhp goals, other than MORE. I'm at 476 rwhp now through an A6, is 550rwhp out of the question with a N/A 414 stroker build?
I want to keep the build N/A so I dont want a blower. Plus I would definetly have to buy different heads with a blower. I'm not opposed to buying new heads (if the gain would be significantly more then the ETP 225s I have now), but I dont want to buy new heads & a new blower.
Again, I'm just looking at a stoker kit + install labor, and no heads $ UNLESS I could get much more rwhp with different heads!
How about my cam? Those are not that expensive. Should I switch that too, or stay with the custom 231/235 113 cam I have now. Would any other cam make a huge difference?
Thanks again!
I don't have any rwhp goals, other than MORE. I'm at 476 rwhp now through an A6, is 550rwhp out of the question with a N/A 414 stroker build?
I want to keep the build N/A so I dont want a blower. Plus I would definetly have to buy different heads with a blower. I'm not opposed to buying new heads (if the gain would be significantly more then the ETP 225s I have now), but I dont want to buy new heads & a new blower.
Again, I'm just looking at a stoker kit + install labor, and no heads $ UNLESS I could get much more rwhp with different heads!
How about my cam? Those are not that expensive. Should I switch that too, or stay with the custom 231/235 113 cam I have now. Would any other cam make a huge difference?
Thanks again!
Last edited by cell6ida; 05-13-2011 at 02:02 AM.
05-13-2011, 04:12 AM
#10
_Sloth Whisperer_
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: Malaysia Air Flight 370
Posts: 3,372
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes
on
6 Posts
Take my thoughts with a grain of salt...
I think your cam is fairly solid, and splits the difference between a somewhat conservative street-driveability cam and one a bit more aggresive that might compliment a stroker best. For your rwhp goals, while 550rwhp isn't out of the question, it probably is getting near the upper end of the spectrum considering I imagine you'll only essentially ever run pump gas. With the 476rwhp/425rwtq you're at now, it'd be reasonable to assume that the mid-range of what you'd pick up with the strokers you're looking at would be, say, 50rwhp and potentially 75rwtq. Again, those gains will vary SIGNIFICANTLY with what compression you intend to run, what final CID you end up at, what rotating assembly you put together, what fuel you intend to run, who tunes your car and how aggressively, etc.
Compound that even further if you start thinking about a bigger cam. Once you're ready to custom-order a set of pistons built for your stroker, then PTV (piston to valve) clearance opens up hugely and gives you a large buffer for bigger cams with more lift, subsequently more duration, etc.
What are your goals? Where do you want the power at in your RPM band? Are you doing top end pulls, 1/8 mile racing, autocross, HPDE's.... etc. That'll all dictate how you spec the build out.
And of course, there's always budget. Can you build a stoker short block for two grand and install/tune it for another two? Probably. But can you also do the exact same thing and spend quadruple that for what looks to be the same specs on paper, yet ends up making boatloads more power, much more reliably, for longer? Absolutely.
I think your cam is fairly solid, and splits the difference between a somewhat conservative street-driveability cam and one a bit more aggresive that might compliment a stroker best. For your rwhp goals, while 550rwhp isn't out of the question, it probably is getting near the upper end of the spectrum considering I imagine you'll only essentially ever run pump gas. With the 476rwhp/425rwtq you're at now, it'd be reasonable to assume that the mid-range of what you'd pick up with the strokers you're looking at would be, say, 50rwhp and potentially 75rwtq. Again, those gains will vary SIGNIFICANTLY with what compression you intend to run, what final CID you end up at, what rotating assembly you put together, what fuel you intend to run, who tunes your car and how aggressively, etc.
Compound that even further if you start thinking about a bigger cam. Once you're ready to custom-order a set of pistons built for your stroker, then PTV (piston to valve) clearance opens up hugely and gives you a large buffer for bigger cams with more lift, subsequently more duration, etc.
What are your goals? Where do you want the power at in your RPM band? Are you doing top end pulls, 1/8 mile racing, autocross, HPDE's.... etc. That'll all dictate how you spec the build out.
And of course, there's always budget. Can you build a stoker short block for two grand and install/tune it for another two? Probably. But can you also do the exact same thing and spend quadruple that for what looks to be the same specs on paper, yet ends up making boatloads more power, much more reliably, for longer? Absolutely.
05-13-2011, 05:18 AM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Member Since: Aug 2008
Location: Tampa (Cigar City) (The Big Sombrero)
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Take my thoughts with a grain of salt...
I think your cam is fairly solid, and splits the difference between a somewhat conservative street-driveability cam and one a bit more aggresive that might compliment a stroker best. For your rwhp goals, while 550rwhp isn't out of the question, it probably is getting near the upper end of the spectrum considering I imagine you'll only essentially ever run pump gas. With the 476rwhp/425rwtq you're at now, it'd be reasonable to assume that the mid-range of what you'd pick up with the strokers you're looking at would be, say, 50rwhp and potentially 75rwtq. Again, those gains will vary SIGNIFICANTLY with what compression you intend to run, what final CID you end up at, what rotating assembly you put together, what fuel you intend to run, who tunes your car and how aggressively, etc.
Compound that even further if you start thinking about a bigger cam. Once you're ready to custom-order a set of pistons built for your stroker, then PTV (piston to valve) clearance opens up hugely and gives you a large buffer for bigger cams with more lift, subsequently more duration, etc.
What are your goals? Where do you want the power at in your RPM band? Are you doing top end pulls, 1/8 mile racing, autocross, HPDE's.... etc. That'll all dictate how you spec the build out.
And of course, there's always budget. Can you build a stoker short block for two grand and install/tune it for another two? Probably. But can you also do the exact same thing and spend quadruple that for what looks to be the same specs on paper, yet ends up making boatloads more power, much more reliably, for longer? Absolutely.
I think your cam is fairly solid, and splits the difference between a somewhat conservative street-driveability cam and one a bit more aggresive that might compliment a stroker best. For your rwhp goals, while 550rwhp isn't out of the question, it probably is getting near the upper end of the spectrum considering I imagine you'll only essentially ever run pump gas. With the 476rwhp/425rwtq you're at now, it'd be reasonable to assume that the mid-range of what you'd pick up with the strokers you're looking at would be, say, 50rwhp and potentially 75rwtq. Again, those gains will vary SIGNIFICANTLY with what compression you intend to run, what final CID you end up at, what rotating assembly you put together, what fuel you intend to run, who tunes your car and how aggressively, etc.
Compound that even further if you start thinking about a bigger cam. Once you're ready to custom-order a set of pistons built for your stroker, then PTV (piston to valve) clearance opens up hugely and gives you a large buffer for bigger cams with more lift, subsequently more duration, etc.
What are your goals? Where do you want the power at in your RPM band? Are you doing top end pulls, 1/8 mile racing, autocross, HPDE's.... etc. That'll all dictate how you spec the build out.
And of course, there's always budget. Can you build a stoker short block for two grand and install/tune it for another two? Probably. But can you also do the exact same thing and spend quadruple that for what looks to be the same specs on paper, yet ends up making boatloads more power, much more reliably, for longer? Absolutely.
Other than that, I'm up for just about anything.
05-13-2011, 10:24 AM
#12
Safety Car
I don't have any rwhp goals, other than MORE...
Again, I'm just looking at a stoker kit + install labor, and no heads $ UNLESS I could get much more rwhp with different heads!
How about my cam? Those are not that expensive. Should I switch that too, or stay with the custom 231/235 113 cam I have now. Would any other cam make a huge difference?
Again, I'm just looking at a stoker kit + install labor, and no heads $ UNLESS I could get much more rwhp with different heads!
How about my cam? Those are not that expensive. Should I switch that too, or stay with the custom 231/235 113 cam I have now. Would any other cam make a huge difference?
I'd certainly swap the cam. By the time you sell the old one, you're looking at maybe $200 net out-of-pocket. For such a critical component to the overall power equation, it seems foolish not to go with a grind matched to your goals.
My suggestion would be to select your engine builder and work with them on the build and see what the costs are under various scenarios.
05-13-2011, 12:17 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Sorry but I don't think you will get close to 550rwhp on 93 octane with 414ci, 225 ETP heads, FAST manifold, your current cam through an A6.
*Maybe* you run 12+:1 compression, larger cam, and most likely Torco octane booster. Even then, you may make a # on the dyno, but it won't translate to the street/track once it starts pinging and pulling timing unless you run higher octane all of the time.
I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but I would hate to see you disappointed by having unrealistic expectations.
If you want to stay NA, I would sell your current motor and buy a 454 shortblock from HKE (my top choice, and the builder I use), or ERL (awesome guys, machine work, and PRICE).
Discuss your goals with Chris/Erik, or ERL. None of them will blow smoke up your butt and tell you what's possible with what you have (your ETP heads), and what you will need. They will not oversell you.
I've been a customer on at least 10 built strokers the last 10 years by various builders. I've either been burned, disappointed, or outright robbed until I started doing business with ERL and HKE. They have never lied nor oversold me. In fact they have saved me money while exceeding my expectations.
Make it as big as you can afford. At 454ci, you could have a shot if you spec the right cam, and have the valve train setup perfectly. If you could get some ls7 heads, or even TFS 235's, it would be a lot easier. I owned the ETP 225 and 245s. If you are running the stock valves that come with them, you may want to look at investing in some hollow stem or titanium valves if it's in your budget.
*Maybe* you run 12+:1 compression, larger cam, and most likely Torco octane booster. Even then, you may make a # on the dyno, but it won't translate to the street/track once it starts pinging and pulling timing unless you run higher octane all of the time.
I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but I would hate to see you disappointed by having unrealistic expectations.
If you want to stay NA, I would sell your current motor and buy a 454 shortblock from HKE (my top choice, and the builder I use), or ERL (awesome guys, machine work, and PRICE).
Discuss your goals with Chris/Erik, or ERL. None of them will blow smoke up your butt and tell you what's possible with what you have (your ETP heads), and what you will need. They will not oversell you.
I've been a customer on at least 10 built strokers the last 10 years by various builders. I've either been burned, disappointed, or outright robbed until I started doing business with ERL and HKE. They have never lied nor oversold me. In fact they have saved me money while exceeding my expectations.
Make it as big as you can afford. At 454ci, you could have a shot if you spec the right cam, and have the valve train setup perfectly. If you could get some ls7 heads, or even TFS 235's, it would be a lot easier. I owned the ETP 225 and 245s. If you are running the stock valves that come with them, you may want to look at investing in some hollow stem or titanium valves if it's in your budget.
The following users liked this post:
JRLedFoot (01-22-2017)
05-13-2011, 12:45 PM
#14
Racer
Sorry but I don't think you will get close to 550rwhp on 93 octane with 414ci, 225 ETP heads, FAST manifold, your current cam through an A6.
*Maybe* you run 12+:1 compression, larger cam, and most likely Torco octane booster. Even then, you may make a # on the dyno, but it won't translate to the street/track once it starts pinging and pulling timing unless you run higher octane all of the time.
I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but I would hate to see you disappointed by having unrealistic expectations.
If you want to stay NA, I would sell your current motor and buy a 454 shortblock from HKE (my top choice, and the builder I use), or ERL (awesome guys, machine work, and PRICE).
Discuss your goals with Chris/Erik, or ERL. None of them will blow smoke up your butt and tell you what's possible with what you have (your ETP heads), and what you will need. They will not oversell you.
I've been a customer on at least 10 built strokers the last 10 years by various builders. I've either been burned, disappointed, or outright robbed until I started doing business with ERL and HKE. They have never lied nor oversold me. In fact they have saved me money while exceeding my expectations.
Make it as big as you can afford. At 454ci, you could have a shot if you spec the right cam, and have the valve train setup perfectly. If you could get some ls7 heads, or even TFS 235's, it would be a lot easier. I owned the ETP 225 and 245s. If you are running the stock valves that come with them, you may want to look at investing in some hollow stem or titanium valves if it's in your budget.
*Maybe* you run 12+:1 compression, larger cam, and most likely Torco octane booster. Even then, you may make a # on the dyno, but it won't translate to the street/track once it starts pinging and pulling timing unless you run higher octane all of the time.
I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but I would hate to see you disappointed by having unrealistic expectations.
If you want to stay NA, I would sell your current motor and buy a 454 shortblock from HKE (my top choice, and the builder I use), or ERL (awesome guys, machine work, and PRICE).
Discuss your goals with Chris/Erik, or ERL. None of them will blow smoke up your butt and tell you what's possible with what you have (your ETP heads), and what you will need. They will not oversell you.
I've been a customer on at least 10 built strokers the last 10 years by various builders. I've either been burned, disappointed, or outright robbed until I started doing business with ERL and HKE. They have never lied nor oversold me. In fact they have saved me money while exceeding my expectations.
Make it as big as you can afford. At 454ci, you could have a shot if you spec the right cam, and have the valve train setup perfectly. If you could get some ls7 heads, or even TFS 235's, it would be a lot easier. I owned the ETP 225 and 245s. If you are running the stock valves that come with them, you may want to look at investing in some hollow stem or titanium valves if it's in your budget.
05-13-2011, 12:53 PM
#15
Tech Contributor
550 through an A6 isnt happening. On an M6 it will be aggressive but do-able. One thing though, being an A6, the limit of your car is near 600rwhp and the A6 wont lose boost pressure on shifts so I think FI is your best bet. Its cheaper, faster, and reversible.Call ECS for a 1500 kit.
The following users liked this post:
JRLedFoot (01-22-2017)
