Halltech Super Bee MF103 vs. Vararam dynos
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
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From: Short Hills, NJ
I mean, are we talkin' .1 better (as it likely should be with 12-15 more horsepower) or was it like only .03 better (which a mere 1mph shift in wind speeds could probably alter in either direction)?
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From: Bristol, Tennessee
St. Jude Donor '09
No car running any aftermarket air flow mod should be running a stock tune. Once the parts are changed, it isnt saying a part is better because it makes more power with the wrong tune. A part should be judged by how it performs with the optimum tune.
FWIW, the build quality of the Halltech products are worth running over the vararam alone even if they had no difference in power.
Is the part going to require a tune? Once modded, you dont know what variables are in place and should expect that you at a minimum need to check to see how the combo is running from a safety standpoint. If its a bone stock car, it would likely run a different air cleaner assembly without tuning changes but be aware that the stock tune from GM is way too rich even on an unmodded car. If your concern is long term safety for your car, the stock tune will result in far more carbon deposits than an optimum tune. Yes, a car with a good tune will run better with less hot spots (detonation damage) than a stock tune, unmodded car.
FWIW, the build quality of the Halltech products are worth running over the vararam alone even if they had no difference in power.
Is the part going to require a tune? Once modded, you dont know what variables are in place and should expect that you at a minimum need to check to see how the combo is running from a safety standpoint. If its a bone stock car, it would likely run a different air cleaner assembly without tuning changes but be aware that the stock tune from GM is way too rich even on an unmodded car. If your concern is long term safety for your car, the stock tune will result in far more carbon deposits than an optimum tune. Yes, a car with a good tune will run better with less hot spots (detonation damage) than a stock tune, unmodded car.
I agree with you regarding the stock tune from GM being too rich, that is in open loop. It is too lean in closed loop.
The open loop runs around 11.25:1 to 11.5:1 at high rpm in OL, which is fat city, puking raw fuel out the tailpipe.
The stoichiometric value used by GM however, is wrong for E10, which is the common fuel now in all stations. 14.7:1 cannot ever be reconciled by the O2 sensors when they are attempting to bring the stoich to 14.7:1 since stoich for E10 is around 14:1. That is the clean/theoretically correct burn for E0 only. During closed loop, excess air in the burn heats up the cats, and when they hit 1600+ degrees, more fuel is added to keep the cats from roasting. Back to too much fuel. All of these issues can be addressed with proper tuning.
Tuning is by far the best thing anyone can do to keep their car running clean, mean, and green with more power, and it can be done very safely, by the right tuner. Having said that, it will void your powertrain warranty.
Jim Hall
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"World Class Performance for your Corvette"
Intake Design and Engineering since 1999
Halltech Systems, LLC
423-915-6056
For service email:
orders@halltechsystems.com
www.halltechsystems.com
"World Class Performance for your Corvette"
Intake Design and Engineering since 1999
Halltech Systems, LLC
423-915-6056
For service email:
orders@halltechsystems.com
www.halltechsystems.com
Thread Starter
Supporting Vendor
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From: Bristol, Tennessee
St. Jude Donor '09
1) Halltech MAF conversion package
2) Retuning, since in the case of only the LS2, which uses a completely different MAF and MAF transfer curve table (Low Hz and High Hz), that table MUST be swept with our code for the blade style LS3/LS7/LS9 MAF sensor
3) Halltech Super Bee MF103
You can order the Killer Bee 2 Conversion Kit here, and put Super Bee MF103 in comments. We do not have the full conversion package in stock, but will have them next week.
http://www.halltechsystems.com/Produ...Code=KBLS2CONV
If you purchase the Halltech emailTUNE® X3 SCT Handheld Tuner, we can tune your car with the correct code by email. http://www.halltechsystems.com/product_p/emtx3.htm
Jim
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: North Carolina
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'11-'12
If it will get my LS3 to lose the tip in stumble and light throttle issues over the Vararam, I will be immensely happy whether or not I pick up or lose anything in the 1/4.
Thread Starter
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From: Bristol, Tennessee
St. Jude Donor '09
Jim
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,157
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From: North Carolina
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'11-'12
We overnighted a new roto molded Halltech Super Bee MF103 to a customer in CO yesterday, who dynoed it vs. the Vararam on the same dyno same day, same terrible conditions, and here are the dynos he sent to us. I will let him explain the numbers, but 15.5 RWHP/3 lbs-ft torque gain over the VR pretty much speaks for itself.
If he did a back to back test, that means the Halltech was operating with a big cutout in the shroud below the filter. In the other thread, you advised that the Vararam cutout needed to be closed up to get proper operation with no ill effects.
Does the dyno and track run with the open shroud contribute to the numbers provided or detract?
Were there any issues noted due to the Beehive not being sealed?
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
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From: Short Hills, NJ
After reading this again, I came up with another question.
If he did a back to back test, that means the Halltech was operating with a big cutout in the shroud below the filter. In the other thread, you advised that the Vararam cutout needed to be closed up to get proper operation with no ill effects.
If he did a back to back test, that means the Halltech was operating with a big cutout in the shroud below the filter. In the other thread, you advised that the Vararam cutout needed to be closed up to get proper operation with no ill effects.
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Thread Starter
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From: Bristol, Tennessee
St. Jude Donor '09
As far as I know the replacement shroud was not installed on the Halltech pulls. This would compromise our ram air effect but not impede the lower restriction to flow with our intake.
On the road, this type of bottom breathing is way to risky, causes surging, and is not the best scenario for our setup.
I think when they saw the numbers, they felt the point had been made without any further changes.
Any pressurized airflow into the Beehive area would have gone right out the bottom of the VR hole.
Jim
On the road, this type of bottom breathing is way to risky, causes surging, and is not the best scenario for our setup.
I think when they saw the numbers, they felt the point had been made without any further changes.
Any pressurized airflow into the Beehive area would have gone right out the bottom of the VR hole.
Jim
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: North Carolina
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'11-'12
Here's just one, there are plenty others:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...post1569431781
Similar to what you did with your Honeycomb straightener:
"Interestingly, this eliminates lean codes on many intakes made by Vararam, and other turbulent bottom breathers."
Fits Corvettes
Halltech Honeycomb Laminar Flow Straightener
Fits ALL Delphi 85 MAF sensors
Completely eliminates lean codes common with aftermarket intakes when used on the C5 Z06
Eliminates surging caused by turbulence at the MAF on the 02-04 C5 Z06
At the new shroud came today...just need to pull the Vararam; once the guy picks it up at the end of the week, Ill be ordering.
Thread Starter
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From: Bristol, Tennessee
St. Jude Donor '09
I did not complain, since the numbers are fine as is, and no one will be disappointed with the real deal.
Driving with the VR hole will cause all kinds of issues with our Beehive, since airflow going in will simple go out the bottom and not be contained for cold air or ram air.
Jim
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,099
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From: Bristol, Tennessee
St. Jude Donor '09
Really? Its been plaguing lots of 08-09 LS3/LS7s
Here's just one, there are plenty others:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...post1569431781
Similar to what you did with your Honeycomb straightener:
"Interestingly, this eliminates lean codes on many intakes made by Vararam, and other turbulent bottom breathers."
Fits Corvettes
Halltech Honeycomb Laminar Flow Straightener
Fits ALL Delphi 85 MAF sensors
Completely eliminates lean codes common with aftermarket intakes when used on the C5 Z06
Eliminates surging caused by turbulence at the MAF on the 02-04 C5 Z06
At the new shroud came today...just need to pull the Vararam; once the guy picks it up at the end of the week, Ill be ordering.
Here's just one, there are plenty others:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...post1569431781
Similar to what you did with your Honeycomb straightener:
"Interestingly, this eliminates lean codes on many intakes made by Vararam, and other turbulent bottom breathers."
Fits Corvettes
Halltech Honeycomb Laminar Flow Straightener
Fits ALL Delphi 85 MAF sensors
Completely eliminates lean codes common with aftermarket intakes when used on the C5 Z06
Eliminates surging caused by turbulence at the MAF on the 02-04 C5 Z06
At the new shroud came today...just need to pull the Vararam; once the guy picks it up at the end of the week, Ill be ordering.
All intakes have their positives and negatives. I actually like what Callaway did to eliminate the turbulence issue on their intake.
Jim
Thread Starter
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Posts: 13,099
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From: Bristol, Tennessee
St. Jude Donor '09
None done on the dyno. 65 mph fan would not increase ambient pressure.
Maybe at 130 to 200 mph some increase could be detected, but even the Ferrari Italia with F1 type ram air sees only 5 hp from there ram air at 200 mph. This according to Ferrari.
Most of what is seen at lower speeds is vacuum replacement in the intake tract and colder denser air. Both intakes provide that, which is a giant step forward from the stock intake that is full of hot air.
At 86F IAT timing begins to be pulled by the stock PCM and ends up -12 at idle in about 1 minute. The Beehive cures that problem.
Maybe at 130 to 200 mph some increase could be detected, but even the Ferrari Italia with F1 type ram air sees only 5 hp from there ram air at 200 mph. This according to Ferrari.
Most of what is seen at lower speeds is vacuum replacement in the intake tract and colder denser air. Both intakes provide that, which is a giant step forward from the stock intake that is full of hot air.
At 86F IAT timing begins to be pulled by the stock PCM and ends up -12 at idle in about 1 minute. The Beehive cures that problem.
Race Director
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From: Fort Worth, Texas
None done on the dyno. 65 mph fan would not increase ambient pressure.
Maybe at 130 to 200 mph some increase could be detected, but even the Ferrari Italia with F1 type ram air sees only 5 hp from there ram air at 200 mph. This according to Ferrari.
Most of what is seen at lower speeds is vacuum replacement in the intake tract and colder denser air. Both intakes provide that, which is a giant step forward from the stock intake that is full of hot air.
At 86F IAT timing begins to be pulled by the stock PCM and ends up -12 at idle in about 1 minute. The Beehive cures that problem.
Maybe at 130 to 200 mph some increase could be detected, but even the Ferrari Italia with F1 type ram air sees only 5 hp from there ram air at 200 mph. This according to Ferrari.
Most of what is seen at lower speeds is vacuum replacement in the intake tract and colder denser air. Both intakes provide that, which is a giant step forward from the stock intake that is full of hot air.
At 86F IAT timing begins to be pulled by the stock PCM and ends up -12 at idle in about 1 minute. The Beehive cures that problem.
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