Thinking about 416 stroker?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Most failures are on non-meth cars and they always say the tune was perfect. It wasn't. Even the slightest detonation kills a rotating assembly.
ECS and A&A have sold over 1000 kits each and the vast majority are on stock internals motors that never have issues. The best piston protection is meth hands down. Any car north of 550rwhp FI or N/A should be running it.
Yes the failure rate rises with power output. How many 650rwhp to 800rwhp N/A cars are there to compare? Mr Big ran 30k miles at 800rwhp on his stock 6 liter and it was fine when it was removed.
Personally, I like the efficiency of N/A and if I was at sea level, my car would be a 440 stroker with a progressive 200 shot. At my altitude, its not in the cards. If youre looking for 550rwhp n/a on an M6, I'm all for the stroker, but its not because the stock motor wont handle 550rwhp. It assumes you arent cheesing out on the build because you have some gripe against meth or have convinced yourself that it isnt needed. There are lots of guys who dont think meth is worth it blaming stock rods and pistons for their failure.
ECS and A&A have sold over 1000 kits each and the vast majority are on stock internals motors that never have issues. The best piston protection is meth hands down. Any car north of 550rwhp FI or N/A should be running it.
Yes the failure rate rises with power output. How many 650rwhp to 800rwhp N/A cars are there to compare? Mr Big ran 30k miles at 800rwhp on his stock 6 liter and it was fine when it was removed.
Personally, I like the efficiency of N/A and if I was at sea level, my car would be a 440 stroker with a progressive 200 shot. At my altitude, its not in the cards. If youre looking for 550rwhp n/a on an M6, I'm all for the stroker, but its not because the stock motor wont handle 550rwhp. It assumes you arent cheesing out on the build because you have some gripe against meth or have convinced yourself that it isnt needed. There are lots of guys who dont think meth is worth it blaming stock rods and pistons for their failure.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Most failures are on non-meth cars and they always say the tune was perfect. It wasn't. Even the slightest detonation kills a rotating assembly.
ECS and A&A have sold over 1000 kits each and the vast majority are on stock internals motors that never have issues. The best piston protection is meth hands down. Any car north of 550rwhp FI or N/A should be running it.
Yes the failure rate rises with power output. How many 650rwhp to 800rwhp N/A cars are there to compare? Mr Big ran 30k miles at 800rwhp on his stock 6 liter and it was fine when it was removed.
Personally, I like the efficiency of N/A and if I was at sea level, my car would be a 440 stroker with a progressive 200 shot. At my altitude, its not in the cards. If youre looking for 550rwhp n/a on an M6, I'm all for the stroker, but its not because the stock motor wont handle 550rwhp. It assumes you arent cheesing out on the build because you have some gripe against meth or have convinced yourself that it isnt needed. There are lots of guys who dont think meth is worth it blaming stock rods and pistons for their failure.
ECS and A&A have sold over 1000 kits each and the vast majority are on stock internals motors that never have issues. The best piston protection is meth hands down. Any car north of 550rwhp FI or N/A should be running it.
Yes the failure rate rises with power output. How many 650rwhp to 800rwhp N/A cars are there to compare? Mr Big ran 30k miles at 800rwhp on his stock 6 liter and it was fine when it was removed.
Personally, I like the efficiency of N/A and if I was at sea level, my car would be a 440 stroker with a progressive 200 shot. At my altitude, its not in the cards. If youre looking for 550rwhp n/a on an M6, I'm all for the stroker, but its not because the stock motor wont handle 550rwhp. It assumes you arent cheesing out on the build because you have some gripe against meth or have convinced yourself that it isnt needed. There are lots of guys who dont think meth is worth it blaming stock rods and pistons for their failure.
Some one with 600 hp but seldom runs that hard will last a long time, vs a 450 hp engine that sees nothing but 4000 to red line use wont.
any race engine or custom built engine should be measured in hours of use, not miles. The Tune is Key and so is preventative maintenance
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,999
Likes: 1,685
From: Southeast TX
Or maybe gallons of fuel burned. I do maintenance on my diesel power units and trucks that way. Like set ups get diff maintenance intervals if they are loaded differently. One running ***** out 24/7 gets it by the book with premium stuff. Same engine loafing along might get extended 50%.
Drifting
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,728
Likes: 36
From: TX / CO
Stock engines are a ticking time bomb with boost. Tell that to the guys at HOTROD magazine that took a stock junkyard 4.8L LS truck motor, increased the end gap on the top piston rings (no other changes to the rotating assembly), added a blower cam, worked heads, 25+psi from two turbos, and wound up with 1200 engine HP. And the engine is still alive.
Said that to say this....what masquerades as a capable "tuner" these days is a joke. Anyone with a computer and a sponship on some website is a tuning genius. You hear when they get lucky and have a good result. You rarely hear when bad **** happens. It's really impressive when the guy stuck with a blown motor because of a crap tune has the same shop build him a forged motor.....
There's no reason an LS3 won't live a long life with mild boost if tuned and and set up properly. Sure, there's a better chance of failure if the engine is making more power. Mild boost, if tuned properly, isn't a death sentence though. My LS3 is fine after 15K+ miles at 650+rwhp. That's 8.5psi with blower cam and bolt ons. It never goes north of 6000 rpm. High rpm with a stock short block is a killer IMO. N/a needs the rpm to make the power...even with more cubes. With a p/d blower, there's no need for big rpm.
Said that to say this....what masquerades as a capable "tuner" these days is a joke. Anyone with a computer and a sponship on some website is a tuning genius. You hear when they get lucky and have a good result. You rarely hear when bad **** happens. It's really impressive when the guy stuck with a blown motor because of a crap tune has the same shop build him a forged motor.....
There's no reason an LS3 won't live a long life with mild boost if tuned and and set up properly. Sure, there's a better chance of failure if the engine is making more power. Mild boost, if tuned properly, isn't a death sentence though. My LS3 is fine after 15K+ miles at 650+rwhp. That's 8.5psi with blower cam and bolt ons. It never goes north of 6000 rpm. High rpm with a stock short block is a killer IMO. N/a needs the rpm to make the power...even with more cubes. With a p/d blower, there's no need for big rpm.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Or maybe gallons of fuel burned. I do maintenance on my diesel power units and trucks that way. Like set ups get diff maintenance intervals if they are loaded differently. One running ***** out 24/7 gets it by the book with premium stuff. Same engine loafing along might get extended 50%.
My little old 2003 LS6 224 cam with 410 RWHP 407 RWTQ ( +/- ) is run nothing but 3000 to redline 6750. I get 3.5 to 4 mpg 4:1 mix of 100:93
22,000 HARD 3000 to redline miles.
Change the valve springs, injectors, plugs, wires and retune each winter.
I keep waiting for it to blow so can justify
a new 40x road race build motor. But that cost just may put me in a crate LS3 with an added dry sump.
Last edited by AU N EGL; Aug 20, 2011 at 02:25 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 980
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh NC
and how the engine was used.
Some one with 600 hp but seldom runs that hard will last a long time, vs a 450 hp engine that sees nothing but 4000 to red line use wont.
any race engine or custom built engine should be measured in hours of use, not miles. The Tune is Key and so is preventative maintenance
Some one with 600 hp but seldom runs that hard will last a long time, vs a 450 hp engine that sees nothing but 4000 to red line use wont.
any race engine or custom built engine should be measured in hours of use, not miles. The Tune is Key and so is preventative maintenance
