Thanks for the shout out, Ed.

 

My post #14 was in response to post #11(which was before mine). Then you posted in #17 that the Attck Blue filter had more filter area then the stock Donaldson. "....the area where the air flows through is where the difference is."

How can you make that claim if you don't know the surface area of both filters?

 

Do have any horsepower claims when your filter was installed in the stock housing of a LS3, a Z06 and a ZR1 and certified to SAE J-1349 on an engine dyno?

 

Do you have any independant data to support any claims tested to any standard on any product?

I recently tested a bunch of different filters normalizing data the best we could with some very interesting results, but threads and posts like this keep me from sharing what was learned. I seen the same thing happen with Jason from Katech, it just is not worth the agravation.

 

Knowing the surface area will not change the positive results I got from the install. Just by looking at the two, one can see the Blue is less restrictive without reducing filtering.
RoadRebel is right in regard to the aggravation part of it. The Z06 bridge is the other part of the equation. Oh wait, I said that already.
.
Why not post yours so we can all see the difference.

 

Just by looking at the two, one can see the Blue is less restrictive without reducing filtering.

This shows you don't know what you are talking about.

 

Another AC has come to the party.

 

As with all CAIs you wont really see the benifit till you are on the road with the wind being forced up into the engine bay and of course the faster you go the more forced it becomes. I guess thats why they say trap times are a good way to tell the story. But when you open the rear end up you need to open the front end up too. Just like us the most we stuff in our mouth the more we ****.

 

You know, I find it interesting how this keeps popping up, not really from the OP because he is just an asking a question and getting really skewed answers.
First if that independent Amsoil dealer is still in business I would be surprised, you can't go after K&N with out your data being 110% percent right on and you will probably still be out of funds.

The most important part though, none of the naysayer have any data on what they are talking about. They say it does not filter, show me the data you have or stop making false accusations. There is nothing wrong with the Donaldson filter, however if you are looking for more power or a washable filter then the Attack Blue is the way to go, really the end of story. This argument could be made about any part on the car, or what about the oil, lets hear what you guys have to say about that. Again, have facts if you don't then you are just wasting everyones time.
The company that makes this filter also makes the OE filters for some of the Chryslers and other OE manufacturers out of the same material, yes it goes through all the SAE tests.

 

Post from "fnbrowning" on April 13, 2011:

Here is a copy of the venerable test report that presents the results of an ISO 5011 test of several air filters. The test was independently performed under controlled conditions using a $285,000 machine at Test and Corp of Rhode Island (manufacturer of the machine). Arlen Spicer, a GM Duramax Diesel owner/enthusiast organized the test. Ken an employee of Testand offered to perform the tests at no charge. (These tests typically cost approx $1700.00 per filter)

This is the point that Rock'n Blue 08 and other believers should pay attention to - Accumulative Gain:
"Accumulative Gain" is the total amount of dirt that passed through the filter during the test.



From Member JoesC5 Quote:

The best filter on the market is the one you presently have, the Donaldson PowerCore filter that GM puts in all LS3/LS7/LS9 Corvettes. Just find the best price for a replacement GM filter, and buy it. Flows all you need and filters the best.

The Donaldson filter you have is good for 50,000 miles, then spend $100 for a replacement element that is good for another 50,000 miles. If you do hit 100,000 miles you will have invested $100 if filter replacement and never, not once, had to take the time to clean and re-oil your filter. No oiled cotton gauze filter will last 50,000 miles without cleaning and re-oiling.

Will someone please explain to me how purchasing an oiled cotton gauze filter element for $125, or $300-$500 for a complete replacement air breather, and then purchasing the cleaner kit and oil for another $20, and then having to clean and oil the filter element every 5,000 miles, is cheaper then driving your car for 100,000 miles and only replacing the the Donaldson filter once.


And about going thru SAE Testing:

What do these high performance air filter manufacturer's advertise about filtration efficiency? They say: "Meets & exceeds all ISO 5011 SAE testing." Does anyone know what that means? Consider that ISO 5011 test specs have no pass or fail criteria. The spec only defines a standard test procedure for air filters and how to report those test results in a standard format so direct comparisons can be made. There is no criteria that a filter can MEET or EXCEED. That statement alone in their advertising should give you pause. You will never see that test data. And you will never find a comparison between the stock filter and these "high flow" units because if you did you wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

Poor air filtration damage is generally slow to cause engine damage. And the rate of damage depends on whether or not you drive in a lot of dusty conditions. But it does cause damage that will be seen in shortened overall engine life. You'll probably sell your car before any damage is noticed or you may not even drive it enough to see damage even if you keep it for a long time. Having said that, if I were buying a used car and I checked this forum and saw that you used one of these high volume, low filtration filters, I wouldn't touch your car with a ten foot pole.

It has been proven again and again in oil analysis. The people who use aftermarket filters always show high silicon (dirt) levels indicating their air filter is not capturing all the dirt. As HOXXOH said >"You'd be hard pressed to find any aftermarket filter for the Vette that even attempts to claim equal filtration efficiency as the original Donaldson GM uses."<

Remember, the performance air filter companies are in business to sell you a product. Their claims, of horsepower and air filtration, should be viewed with skepticism.

 

Now there is some data, thank you, but we have said with our filter in particular that it filters down to 5 microns. You are very correct on how expensive the testing is. See this is the thing, nobody has ever said that their filter filters as well as the Donaldson. This is something that the PRO Donaldson guys keep saying. I personally like the Donaldson, however if I am looking for more power I am installing a perfomance filter plain and simple.
I see in that test our filter was not in there and neither was the Donaldson. I also see the AFE filter rated very close to the Ac Delco stock filter. The AFE filter is a cotton Guaze type of filter. Obviously not all fitlers are created equal, so if you do not have data on a Attack blue that shows what you are accusing it of, then you should stop. I also see that the Donaldson BLACKWING was not tested, two guesses on what it is made of. You know I don't think you will actually see one of these new Corvettes show any engine wear caused by air fliter to actually show any signs of wear to 100,000 miles. Heck I have had and probably allot of us on here, older cars with stock airfilters that never made it that far where the engine was just worn out. You know what causes more damage, the guy not doing a good job installing the air cleaner assembly and having a leak in the air box that is completely unfiltered. You will see more effects from that then you will the difference between a Donaldson and any other type of filter. This argument is borderline ridiculous on what you are basing everything off of. By the way a macine that can flow the CFM required to test a Corvette filter is way more then 85,000.
Also I applaud you on what what the test procedure is, it is not a pass or fail which is why we do not advertise that. However we do advertise that if filters down to 5 micron.

 

So I posted this the last time and never heard any of the naysayer say much about it.

1 race mile = 1000 street miles.
Daytona 24 hour race, top DP car ran 761 laps, the track is 2.3 miles per lap. That is a equalevant of 1,761,800 miles that car went with a cotton/Gauze filter. You realize that would have voided the K&N million mile warranty, which by the Donalson voids theirs according to their website the first time you try and service the filter ie blow the dirt off it.
So if there engine will go 1,761,800 miles between rebuilds, what are you complaining about???????????????????????? Is there a Corvette out there that has that kind of mileage on it. Wait there is, Corvette Racing C6R's, what type of filter do you think they are running?

 

I'm not the one making the increased horsepower claims, so why should I have to prove anything. The one making the claims of increased horsepower should have to back up his claims. GM states that their engines produce "x" horsepower under very controlled tests. Slapping on a aftermarket filter and strapping the car on a chassis dyno is not a controlled test. If a vendor wants to claim his product produces a certain horsepower increase over GM's horsepower ratings, then the vendor should test their product under the same exact protocol that GM uses.

Plenty of people have compared the Attack Blue filter to the stock Filter and found no measurable difference. So it's "I say-you say" until the vendor tests his product using the same criteria as GM uses to measure horsepower.

I installed a Attack Blue filter in my Z06 and I got codes and a CEL for my troubles. I reinstalled the Donaldson filter and the problems went away. Others have reported the same. I ran the Attack Blue for less then 100 miles, pulled it and sold it for less the half I paid for it. Why should I deliberately lose money, by selling the product at 50% of it's original cost to me, if the product delivered as advertised. Others must feel the same way as I see used Attack Blue filters for sale.

My experience with the Attack Blue carries just as much weight as yours, so don't believe for a minute you are the one that is 100% in your assessment of the positives/negatives of the Attack Blue filter.
That's why a SAE J-1349 engine dyno run is necessary to prove the horsepower claims.

 

Ok, let me address these. Nobody in the aftermarket could ever test a product to the extent of GM. Do you know they spend 3 years just writing the calibration program for the car, does that mean it is the best, of course not, but it is the best for the all around average user.
GM takes their cars all over the world to test so that when it is finished it will live as long as their warranty says it will and will do what is advertised as doing, and your Corvette is built for the average person. It means that it is a compromise between Johnny O'Connell and the little houswife down the street to the CEO that just wants to drive it to the golf course. This is why a stock ZO6 can easily make 600 hp instead of 505 with a very small amount of work.
The same goes with the filter, they want you to be able to drive down Daytona Beach, through the salt flats and back home through the desert where a sand storm is blowing. That is what that filter does, but it is not at the top of the game as far a all out performance, the same as our filter is not at the top of the performance mark either because we were not going to sacrafice filtration, however we found a middle ground. Myself or Ed has not said anything about massive gains, as a matter of fact I said just the opposite. If you start modifing other items the bigger the difference is between the two. A ZR1 is a different story and they do make a good bit of extra power with it. Since you put yourself out there, you are the one that is talking about the filtration, that is what I am referring too, not the power increase and you should have data to back up your statements, just as I have. Someone said an engine will not last long with one of these, is 1,761,800 long enough or should it do more than that.
Another note, you blamed the Attack Blue for your CEL, but isn't it true that was with the addition of the Vette Air and you also got the CEL with the stock filter and Vette Air, I believe I remember you saying that. I have installed allot of these, I have never had a CEL light come on, and I have never had one come on with my cold air duct for the Mamba. If there are any air leaks in the intake you will get a CEL, could it have been the TB duct was not all the way on. What code was the CEL?

 

Granted that a small aftermarket company can't afford to do the tests that GM can do, but that does not relieve them from the responsibility of backing up their claims.

Back to back runs on a Z06 comparing the stock Z06 Donaldson, then the Attack Blue and then the ZR1 Donaldson. Done at ProvenPowerTampa on a DynoJet.

2/10/2010 at 10.33 AM, the stock Z06 filter was 453.66 rwhp.
2/20/2010 at 10:51 AM, the Attack Blue filter was 455.67 rwhp.
2/10/2010 at 11:09 AM. the ZR1 filter was 457.35 rwhp.

Absolutely no changes made to the car other then changing the air filter element. No tuning, no exorcism, no pixie dust, no unicorns.

As I understand the air filtration test, they do not measure the minimum size of particles that will pass through the filter. They use a controlled mixture of various size particles, weigh the filter element, weigh the particles, blow the particles through the filter, and then weigh the filter again. Then they say the filter trapped 99.7% or 99.99%( or ????) of the particles, by weight.

 

So for 2 HP gain you'd sacrifice the best filtration out there. Doesn't make sense to me. But then you could sell buckets with holes in them with the right advertising and an uncritical public.

 

I don't have an issue with that, but you are only responding to a small portion of what I said. No power claims have been made, the ones that were, were on a ZR1, all other cars the gain is so small that it is not much. I also would not hold much on the runs you just posted, what temps were the car, what kind of dyno, there is a whole lot that goes on in testing something more than a couple of dyno runs. That being said a couple of guys have posted there runs on here, yet you acknowledge yours but not theirs. Look I am very strict when it comes to testing and I will not make a claim that I cannot back up. We did not get to where we are by making false statements and selling snake oil. You still haven't answered my question back to you about the filtration statements and your CEL light. No pixie dust as you call it, if you have something to say about the filter let's hear the facts. I gave you the facts off our 40+ thousand mile ZO6 making 705hp in the last thread. Leak down was less than 10%, with almost 8000 miles on the oil which was by the was not by my choice it only had 10ppm of silicon, which by the way is a 0 on their scale and that means is is in the lower part of normal. That is with 8k miles on the oil, 5w30 Mobil1 with a filter that can only filter down to 15 microns, and a cotton gauze filter that filters down to 5 microns.

 

Listen to your argument. If you want to make statement lets see the data you have on the Attack Blue that it does not filter. No one but you and some others on the Pro Stock anything else does not work side are the ones talking about the power. If you think for one second that your car is going to make the same power with a new Donaldson filter and one a 50,000 miles you are sadly mistaken. You think you could explain that theory to the guys a Pratt & Miller, there car see more dirt in one day then your car will in a life time.

 

Or, for a 4 HP gain, you could go with the ZR1 Donaldson and retain the best filtration out there.

 

According to your results, I have seen others that don't agree with yours.

So you guys can accuse someone without any proof or data to back it up, yet your data off a dyno jet on a car that no real testing being done except one run with each filter is concrete evidence. Since you have all three filters, why don't you run each filter 10 times in a row, only allow enough cool down to start the run at 192F then avg each filter and see where they come in out. At least that would be a little more creditable.