Drop in filter adds 0 gain performace i dont give a hoot who its made by!The factory filters are of very high efficiency and the only way to improve on that is with a cai.Anything else is bull....!

 

Small gains but not bull. Allot of CAI's actually can hurt the car if they are not set up properly too, so again what appears to be obvious is not always so. GM did a very good job on the intake for the LS3/7 and 9. Of course there are imporvments that can be made if you are seeking more performance. If you want all around great, like medium then the stock box and Donaldson are for you. Kinda of like the Goodyear tire that come on the Vette, great all around the tire, but not the best performer, same thing.

 

Exactly why I asked you to verify your horsepower claims using the J-1349 protocol. GM says my LS7 has 505 horsepower with the stock Donaldson filter per SAE J-1349. What horsepower does your LS7 have when tested using J-1349 and using your product?

You keep claiming your filter.... "cotton gauze filter that filters down to 5 microns." Are you saying that no particle larger then 5 microns will pass through your filter 100% of the time?

Or is it another play on words like when filter manufacturers claim horsepower increases up to 50 HP? You know that .00001 HP increase will fall under that claim. I could claim my filter "filters down to 5 microns" when it actually passes 20 micron particles 90% of the volume but will catch 5 micron particles 10% of the volume. So I can also claim my filter "filters down to 5 microns".

Funny how you make excuses when I ask for real verification of your claims( ie too time consuming, too expensive, etc), but when I show results of non certifiable dyno runs you make up the excuse that the dyno pulls aren't representative of the three filters. Why are your non certifiable dyno runs acceptable, but another party's runs are not?

Here are some published claims made by Attack Blue. All we are asking is for you to back up those claims.

*Flow a whopping 45% more air then Stock!

*Increase torque. Gain over 4 rear wheel hp just by dropping it in!

*Patent Pending narrow back design helps eliminate “power robbing” turbulence!

*Filtrates down to 5 microns (a human hair is 50)!

 

Joe,

You hit the nail on the head about filter performance.

"You keep claiming your filter.... "cotton gauze filter that filters down to 5 microns." Are you saying that no particle larger then 5 microns will pass through your filter 100% of the time?

Almost all, I'd guess, 95% or more passes right through that cotton gauze. Show us the SAE ISO 5011 test data because that's exactly the kind of testing is specifies.

 

I get so tired of this argument. If you want the best filtration out there stick with paper. It has come a long way in the last 30 years. Filters like the power core have a lot of area and do not degrade nearly has fast the old paper filters do.

But lets get real about what we are taking about. You can't see anything that is 5 microns in size. In it need to be 40 microns or larger to see with the naked eye. Sand for instance is 100 microns at the smallest. Thing that are 10 microns or small pollen's and very fine dust that you can not see. Particles this fine will not hurt an engine, period.

But at the same time gains from a filter change only are poppy ****. Clean paper will flow just as well as any gauze/oil filter. And with the the improvements in filter area like the power core the paper will flow well for many miles.

Unless you are upgrading to a complete intake system which will increase power along with a tune stick with what came with the car.

 

That's one of the important facts many people don't realize about the PowerCore's design. All they see is the filter area at the surface where the air enters the filter element, but not the approximately 4 " long tubes that actually do the filtering. They don't understand that the surface of the filter where the air enters, is just one end of hundreds of tubes that actually do the filtering. GM could lengthen the filter by 1"(not changing the size of the filter that is seen when in the housing) and gain ~25% more filter surface area, but the filter would look the same in it's housing. People that claim the aftermarket filters are "larger" just don't understand the 3-dimensional aspects of the PowerCore's design.
In addition, the PowerCore filter is much more then a plain cellulose filter as it is made with Ultra-Web nanofibers.

People should read about cotton gauze and then this paper....
http://www.donaldson.com/en/filterme...ary/052022.pdf

 

How was this determined, and who determined it?

Does the engine actually ingest 1000x more air when racing vs on the street? Just curious as it seems a bit exaggerated on first glance.

 

Maybe a little bit of an exaggeration. On the highway I get close to 30mpg. On the track I get 7 mpg. Use more gas use more air.

 

I guess then that a 500 mile NASCAR Cup race equals 500,000 street miles, and all the Cup teams run their paper filters the entire race without changing them at every pit stop. If the crappy paper filter clogged up so bad and costs so much horsepower, then you would think the 43 teams would look under the couch cushions in their multimillion dollar motor homes and find enough loose change to buy extra filters and change the filters during the race. They have figured out a way to change four tires in under 14 seconds and to change out the battery in under 20 seconds, so I bet they could figure out a way to change out the air filter in no time at all, especially if it gave them back all that lost horsepower from that ugly dirty clogged paper air filter under the hood.

 

I did say a little bit. More like 4-5 times. Of course NASCAR has rules about what type of air filter you can run and K&N actually makes a un-oiled cotton filter for just such use.

 

K&N makes one, but how many teams use them. If the K&N was superior, then the teams would get NASCAR to approve them. I don't believe NASCAR specifies a brand name when it come to the paper filters. Both NASCAR and the race teams are always looking for a way to reduce costs. Most of their rule changes are based on that fact. If the K&N has superior filtering capabilities, then NASCAR and the teams would wholeheartedly endorse them. Better filtration means less wear on the engine's cylinder walls, meaning less money required to replace blocks that are worn out. They can't just keep boring them out to smooth out the cylinder walls. They are restricted to 358 cu in and they don't want to start out with 350 cu in just so they can bore them out several times to clean the cylinder walls up. They work their *** off getting every horsepower the rules allow, and they aren't going to leave a bunch of those horses in the barn by running less displacement then their competitors.

 

From people that are allot smarter than any of us. The wear that a race engine and car has is 1 mile = 1000 miles. That is a very commonly known factor. I don't know who researched it or how much work went into figuring it out, kind of like the 1 lb of unsprung weight = 6 lbs of normal weight. There is also a HP figure to go with that one, but I do not know it. Some of the smartest guys that I know work for GM and most of the Race teams. They don't seem to have the hang up over filters that some of the guys here do. Wonder Why. As far as Nascar you can't look at anything use as what is the best, or best technology when it has rule associated to it. Nascar is a advertising machine, so if Donaldson paid them enough money that is what filter would be on the car, but at the present time WIX is. So with that being said, why are you not running a WIX filter on your car, they must be the best since Nascar runs them.
Joe, you still have not answered the questions, why. What was the CEL on your car.
Truly the filter does what we say it does or else we would not have advertised it. We have been in business since 1977 and we don't operate by making false claims. Second YOU have come on here and personally attack and specific brand filter, not the general idea of it, but a specific brand. Be lucky that TKO does not decide to send you some paper work from an attorney. It is on you to prove what you say is true and not some made up personally issue you may have or some vested intrest in Donaldson.

 

I am starting to feel like I am arguing with some Occupy Wall Street guys.

Say allot and have no way to back up anything you are saying.

By the way Joe, GM uses a special formulated 100 octane fuel for those tests, so for anyone to duplicate it, that aftermarket filter would be 10 times the cost. This is why you don't see anyone copy that. But we do make every effort to make good solid test data.
Do you think you could duplicate the tests that GM does, you can't even get me a CEL code right now.

 

In the 10+ years I have been here this argument has been buy what you like