The gains might be the same, but the category of the mod is substantially different IMO.

 

^ Race gas

I can get 110 from the pump but that doesn't make it "pump gas".

Pump gas, at least IMO, is 87, 89, 91, 93 that is readily available from ANY gas station in the respective area.


And this topic, much like the OBX topic, always stirs the pot and is good for some entertainment

 

I can't see how a smart guy like you can miss the boat on this.

How do you square changing your valve springs and putting on lightweight titanium retainers not putting you in the heads/cam category... but changing your lifters would? They both touch oil, which I've seen being an arbitrary delineation postulated by some people.

Changing the springs and light retainers add RPM capability that clearly add more horsepower than lifters would.

thin gaskets - 4-6 rwhp.
trick flow heads - 50+ rwhp.

How are those things in the same category??

The categories are meant to differentiate by the amount of gains you get from them.

 

Because racecar.

 

I don't think I'm missing the boat on anything.

You have to draw the line somewhere to distinguish the categories and that is where I choose to do it(many others as well). The added horsepower is one facet of the reason for the different categories, but it also serves as a means for comparison to other owners.

If the categories overlap too much, the differentiation is lost and we might as well just have 1 fast list.

I picked up almost 40whp from my headers but I doubt I'd see more than 15-20 from ported heads(at best). Are those to be similar in categorization because of their similar power gains? Of course not. They're obviously two different mods both in price point and category.

 

I hear what you're saying there, but that starts to lean the discussion off into another direction as well.
Is it about 'the gains provided' by a particular modification, or is it more about the specific area of the car that has or hasn't been altered?
We've all seen the arguments about whether a gear or converter swap is still considered a 'bolt on' or not because that particular person believes that it can be so much more difficult (and even more costly) to perform than say, a rocker arm swap. Yet the more difficult/more costly gear or converter swap is still considered a bolt on mod where as the rockers are considered an internal mod.

I'd even go so far as to say that a mod that actually hurts performance can still disqualify one from being on a particular list/category.
If one installs a tiny cam and/or overly or incorrectly ported heads and actually somehow goes slower than they did before, they have still done a cam or head swap and can't claim that they are still stock or bolt ons only simply because their ETs are now worse.
If a bone stock C6 owner puts some big, heavy 20" rims/'non drag radial' tires on his car he will no longer be in the stock category any more even though the car might run the same or even be much slower than he was when bone stock.
So 'performance gains' (or cost/difficulty to install) alone might not be the best yardstick by which to measure what particular category/classification a mod or series of mods falls under.
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I have to somewhat agree.

 

Yeah I changed my oil to a better non synthetic with so now I have bolts ons...and actually my vararam put me in the FI category...Sweet I have the slowest FI car of all time.

 

Now there's someone who gets it

 

I have thicker gaskets and Trick Flow heads. I'm back to cam only, then. Whew.

 

 

Just keep it simple and be faster than everyone else.

Problem solved.

The guy with a bone stock record can happily keep it when I hit it next to him from a 40 roll and put bus lengths on his record holding car

 

Anytime you go inside the engine you have removed yourself from the bolt on category.

Carry on.

 

And just for the record, not that it means a whole heck of a lot but I will take the top spot in the LS3 internal mods category very soon. . .

 

Yeah, there's always someone faster. I gave up the desires for KOTS after the GTO. It costs way too damn much to stay ahead of everyone...and you still get beat sometimes.

 

so, let me get this straight.

I can change out my diff. to a better gear, delete the cats on the exhayst, use smaller diameter rims with drag slicks, and pull every piece of interior out of the car and still run as a cam only car.

Sounds about as good a the last "True Street" compitition I was in, where after the 25 mile cruise you could do just about anything to your car as long as the hood didn't come up.
And a handfull of people actually changed out street tires to drag slicks.

I guess I comes down to who the official of the day is.

Thanks for the input.
I think I got it now.

 

The cam-only terminology really only applies to the motor. It's not a set-in-stone designation as it is quite obvious people have different interpretations of what qualifies under what category.

In all the 'true street' competitions I've seen,they had a strict 'no touch' policy with everything. The only thing you could adjust was the tire pressure.

The fast list here doesn't really mean anything or carry weight anywhere else but this forum. It's really just a means of bragging rights amongst other corvette and/or LSx owners.

I personally take pride in the fact that my car is as fast as it is, given the relatively small amount of mods. I'm happy that I run the times I do and I look forward to taking the top spot in the LS3 internal mod category while my heads remain untouched(cam only). Does it mean anything to the rest of the corvette forum or outside of CF for that matter? No, not really but I do get to smile when my name is at the top of the list(one of the smaller lists though) after putting in a lot of blood, sweat, and tears.

 

The negative of modding is that often someone unqualified is now messing with a fine tuned GM proven design and setup.
Sometimes the power that is added doesn't always outweigh all the mistakes made by unqualified hands and minds.
So, don't always think you'll go that much faster with the addition of some shiny part even if the part is proven.
Plus power on the power and power to the ground are 2 different animals.

That's one of the reasons I believe bolt on records are among the fastest comparatively.

 

I've seen these formulas work almost always.

More mods + incompetence = more problems
More power + inexperience = more elapsed time

 

I agree
wish 110 were readily available
i love using that in our jetskis
In AZ was very easy to get
here in AL, not as easy or cheap