Question on Manually Shifting A6
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Pro
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Colleyville Texas
Question on Manually Shifting A6
I traded a MN6 on an A6. I was fooling around on the Big Texas Toy Run and manually shifted from 3rd to 4th, but the transmission didn't shift until it hit the rev limiter. I tried it again shifting at 5,000 rpm and it still hit the limiter. This doesn't seem normal to me. If I shift, it should change gears, right?
Jim
Jim
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Missouri City Texas
If you're accelerating very quickly you'll need to account for the lag in pressing the button until the time it actually commands the shift. Once the shift starts it is very quick, but the lag to get to that point is what irritates me so much about the A6.
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Pro
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From: Colleyville Texas
I could be wrong on this, but if I shift at 5k (WOT) it shouldn't take the tranny until red line to shift. I reread the owner's manual and it said the trans won't shift if engine speed is too high or too low. Not sure what too high would be, but letting it ride to the rev limiter would qualify in my opinion. Just doesn't seem right to me.
I did not deactivate the traction control, so maybe that is where the problem lies. It's a little icy here in DFW, so I probably can't check this out again until things warm up a bit, probably in a day or two.
Thanks for the replys
Jim
I did not deactivate the traction control, so maybe that is where the problem lies. It's a little icy here in DFW, so I probably can't check this out again until things warm up a bit, probably in a day or two.
Thanks for the replys
Jim
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,331
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From: Missouri City Texas
If you're doing this in first gear it doesn't take long to go form 5k-redline and could easily bump the limiter using the paddles before the paddles actually react and cause the car to shift gears.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,375
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From: CA.
St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
As mentioned it's probably coming form your traction control and TQ management systems
TQ mangement limits the TQ (sometimes as much as 30%) at each shift whether manual or auto shifting to protect the tranny----This can be tuned out with a tuner like HP or EFILIVE only
PS: My opinion is that the car will be quicker if you just drive it in auto--I don't care if you're Mario Andretti--- you'll never shift it better or more consistantly than that computer will !!!
TQ mangement limits the TQ (sometimes as much as 30%) at each shift whether manual or auto shifting to protect the tranny----This can be tuned out with a tuner like HP or EFILIVE only
PS: My opinion is that the car will be quicker if you just drive it in auto--I don't care if you're Mario Andretti--- you'll never shift it better or more consistantly than that computer will !!!
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 393
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From: Toronto Ontario
It should shift at 5k. Even with traction control engaged. If you have an A6, you should get the transmission programmed. The stock program is weak. You can have the shift points and shift pressure adjusted to suit your needs. I have had two different programs on my A6 and they were both much better than stock. You can program for drag racing, street, or race track. My current setup is quicker, firm but not harsh, and I have full manual control but no rev matching on downshifts (not possible with my controller). You must have warm tires and pavement to shift at 5k+ with no traction control. I have 400rwhp.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,999
Likes: 242
From: Surprise, Az
You have to lift off the throttle a bit before upshifting, that was how it was on my factory '08 Z-51 I didn't try to have it tuned out. Mine didn't care if TC or AH was turned on or off.
The '12 may be different as I know the factory changed the shift algorithm for the A-6's. I only had one hpde outing this year and didn't encounter any shift problems at all and did notice the shifts were faster than on the '08. Since I shift by ear, I wasn't focused on the rpm ranges I was shifting at, just on the next turn-in point. I'm sure I was over 5k though. I really like the rev matching capability, you can downshift, neutral throttle while in a fast corner without upsetting the suspension.
The '12 may be different as I know the factory changed the shift algorithm for the A-6's. I only had one hpde outing this year and didn't encounter any shift problems at all and did notice the shifts were faster than on the '08. Since I shift by ear, I wasn't focused on the rpm ranges I was shifting at, just on the next turn-in point. I'm sure I was over 5k though. I really like the rev matching capability, you can downshift, neutral throttle while in a fast corner without upsetting the suspension.
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Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,340
Likes: 6
From: Redmond WA
Mike, my 2011 will upshift at any engine speed and full throttle, as long as the tires have traction, even though it's slower than your 2012!
To the OP, you were on a Toy Run and tired to upshift **FROM THIRD GEAR** at 5000 RPMs? In my car, that's about 105-110 MPH. You probably won't have traction issues at that speed, but your toy packages probably got thrown around a little bit. . .
To the OP, you were on a Toy Run and tired to upshift **FROM THIRD GEAR** at 5000 RPMs? In my car, that's about 105-110 MPH. You probably won't have traction issues at that speed, but your toy packages probably got thrown around a little bit. . .
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Far NW 'burbs of Chicago
St. Jude Donor '13
We had a 2006 A6 and now a 2009 A6 (both with Z51).
Whether the selector is in D or in S (without using the paddles yet), I just plant my right foot and the tranny does an upshift right near redline.
If I'm using the paddles, I hit the upshift at 5,800 rpm on the 2009 and it shifts before redline. On the 2006, with a little more shift lag, I think I used 5,500 rpm.
EDIT: Those numbers are for the 1-2 shift, where the engine is winding up very rapidly. For 2-3 and 3-4, you can go to a higher rpm.
But hitting the paddle at 5,000 should not be necessary unless something is wrong.
Both our cars had/have the stock transmission program, and they work pretty well. A tranny tune might make things happen quicker, but if that could be done without any downsides for durability, I think GM would have done it.
Your car, your money, your choice.
Whether the selector is in D or in S (without using the paddles yet), I just plant my right foot and the tranny does an upshift right near redline.
If I'm using the paddles, I hit the upshift at 5,800 rpm on the 2009 and it shifts before redline. On the 2006, with a little more shift lag, I think I used 5,500 rpm.
EDIT: Those numbers are for the 1-2 shift, where the engine is winding up very rapidly. For 2-3 and 3-4, you can go to a higher rpm.
But hitting the paddle at 5,000 should not be necessary unless something is wrong.
Both our cars had/have the stock transmission program, and they work pretty well. A tranny tune might make things happen quicker, but if that could be done without any downsides for durability, I think GM would have done it.
Your car, your money, your choice.
Last edited by Gearhead Jim; Dec 30, 2012 at 08:29 PM.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 393
Likes: 11
From: Toronto Ontario
We had a 2006 A6 and now a 2009 A6 (both with Z51).
Whether the selector is in D or in S (without using the paddles yet), I just plant my right foot and the tranny does an upshift right near redline.
If I'm using the paddles, I hit the upshift at 5,800 rpm on the 2009 and it shifts before redline. On the 2006, with a little more shift lag, I think I used 5,500 rpm. But hitting the paddle at 5,000 should not be necessary unless something is wrong.
Both our cars had/have the stock transmission program, and they work pretty well. A tranny tune might make things happen quicker, but if that could be done without any downsides for durability, I think GM would have done it.
Your car, your money, your choice.
Whether the selector is in D or in S (without using the paddles yet), I just plant my right foot and the tranny does an upshift right near redline.
If I'm using the paddles, I hit the upshift at 5,800 rpm on the 2009 and it shifts before redline. On the 2006, with a little more shift lag, I think I used 5,500 rpm. But hitting the paddle at 5,000 should not be necessary unless something is wrong.
Both our cars had/have the stock transmission program, and they work pretty well. A tranny tune might make things happen quicker, but if that could be done without any downsides for durability, I think GM would have done it.
Your car, your money, your choice.
It's your transmission so you can do what you want. Mine's out of warranty, it has more than 30 road course days on it and it still shifts perfectly. I change fluid and filter twice a year as I do 12+ track days a year. If you don't have confidence in your tuner or you want warranty, don't get it tuned, but be prepared to live with slower shifts. I bought my car to drive it, and for me, transmission tuning improves the feel of the car significantly.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,062
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From: Henderson Nv-Rohnert Park/Sonoma C o. ca/born in NY Rockaway Beach.
tuning my car with a local tuner was one of my best mods so far on my new a6 06
it shifts so much better with the tune and I also got an extra 40hp gian on my stock ls2..
If you want your car to shift like it should get it tuned by a local tuner..
it shifts so much better with the tune and I also got an extra 40hp gian on my stock ls2..
If you want your car to shift like it should get it tuned by a local tuner..
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Colleyville Texas
I appreciate all the posts to this question. It seems counterintuitive to have to lift the throttle at WOT. I probably need a tune, but am under warranty and eliminates that option. I'll talk to my dealer and see if there is something they can recommend
Jim
Jim
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,999
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From: Surprise, Az
Mr. Midlife Crisis:
I doubt my car is faster than yours, they are both CRM but if mine was Blue we all know blue is faster...
When I had the '08, coming out of turn 9 in third gear at WOT at Pacific Raceways, I ran into the same issue the OP is asking about. I hit the rev limiter a couple of times trying to upshift to 4th and finally shifted when I backed off the throttle just a bit. I pushed the '12 harder than the '08 and didn't encounter any shifting problems. So its hard to say if the transmissions themselves are a bit different or GM made some changes along the way that were never highlighted. I suspect the latter. The OP may have to decide what he is going to do with the car. Certainly if doing any hpde events, a transmission tune may be highly desirable and for me was under serious consideration before deciding to sell the car for other reasons. Wow TorontoC6, 12 track days a year? I'm envious! I had time for only one last year - when a friend of mine called me up to remind me the summer was slipping away. Next year I hope to do at least 4. Lastly, love the A-6 for hpde.
I doubt my car is faster than yours, they are both CRM but if mine was Blue we all know blue is faster...
When I had the '08, coming out of turn 9 in third gear at WOT at Pacific Raceways, I ran into the same issue the OP is asking about. I hit the rev limiter a couple of times trying to upshift to 4th and finally shifted when I backed off the throttle just a bit. I pushed the '12 harder than the '08 and didn't encounter any shifting problems. So its hard to say if the transmissions themselves are a bit different or GM made some changes along the way that were never highlighted. I suspect the latter. The OP may have to decide what he is going to do with the car. Certainly if doing any hpde events, a transmission tune may be highly desirable and for me was under serious consideration before deciding to sell the car for other reasons. Wow TorontoC6, 12 track days a year? I'm envious! I had time for only one last year - when a friend of mine called me up to remind me the summer was slipping away. Next year I hope to do at least 4. Lastly, love the A-6 for hpde.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,340
Likes: 6
From: Redmond WA
Nah, CRM is the fastest color! But what I was trying to say is that your 2012 has the faster upshift algorithm that my 2011 doesn't. When I last had my car into the dealer, I tried to get them to load the 2012 software but it was a no go.
Were you in competition mode when you were running? I thought that competition mode would allow a shift to happen even if there were a slight amount of wheel slippage going on. From my experiences, I think that's true from playing around a little bit with this in the wet.
Were you in competition mode when you were running? I thought that competition mode would allow a shift to happen even if there were a slight amount of wheel slippage going on. From my experiences, I think that's true from playing around a little bit with this in the wet.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,331
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From: Missouri City Texas
I believe it shifts better and you got some power, but no tune is going to give a stock LS2 40hp unless something was horribly wrong with it going in.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Colleyville Texas
I was not in competition mode. I'll have to play with this, I guess. Even knowing the stock shifting is probably better than manual shifting with the paddles, it's more fun to shift yourself, which is why I got the paddle shift
Thanks again
Jim
Thanks again
Jim
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,375
Likes: 328
From: CA.
St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
However ---these cars have so much protection bulit into them it's not uncommon for the ECM to subtract 40 HP in a flash
Not only do they have TQ management but in the TQ management system there is
axle protection
wheel hop management
clunk reduction
Tip in TQ reduction
PLUS in the spark tables there is
Fast knock retard
Burst knock retard
Launch spark retard
All of these tables in your ECM take away HP--- dis-abling these tables or de sensitizing them can give you back the advertised HP that GM claims they have before the ECM gets a hold of it---
Tolero Apto Victum
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,669
Likes: 37
From: Woodlands TX
For reference, I shift at 6000 rpm full throttle 2nd or 3rd gear and it completes shift before 6250 (I don't run to redline on the track as it improves engine longevity and reduces heat). The later stock programs are better that the earlier.
It's your transmission so you can do what you want. Mine's out of warranty, it has more than 30 road course days on it and it still shifts perfectly. I change fluid and filter twice a year as I do 12+ track days a year. If you don't have confidence in your tuner or you want warranty, don't get it tuned, but be prepared to live with slower shifts. I bought my car to drive it, and for me, transmission tuning improves the feel of the car significantly.
It's your transmission so you can do what you want. Mine's out of warranty, it has more than 30 road course days on it and it still shifts perfectly. I change fluid and filter twice a year as I do 12+ track days a year. If you don't have confidence in your tuner or you want warranty, don't get it tuned, but be prepared to live with slower shifts. I bought my car to drive it, and for me, transmission tuning improves the feel of the car significantly.
