Roadcourse track mods?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,083
Likes: 1,230
From: Chalfont PA
Roadcourse track mods?
My wife's track car is a 2010 6MN GS. It no longer get's driven on the street. I have the suspension mods covered. Brakes are covered also. Safety has been addressed and now it's time to consider engine mods. Currently the engine is completely stock as is the trans, clutch and diff.
At the track regarding reliability "Stock is best" rings true. Modded cars seem to spend lot's of their life being worked on instead of being driven. The engine in the GS lives it's life between 3500 and 6500 rpm. Slow corners are third gear corners typically at around 3500 rpm so the engine needs to make decent power down low. I do like the first three gears in the GS and its favorable 3rd gear ratio for road course work so I don't think a final drive ratio change is needed.
With that said what mods are available that will keep the reliability but add a bit more usable power? I am really open to any suggestions anyone has. Ultimate power is not the goal. Knowing what the car is used for and that it never sees anymore life as a street car is it possible there is a tried and true way for the dry sump LS3 to make 425-450 rwhp reliably? If someone could lay out what that looks like from a mods standpoint that would be awesome! Thanks in advance!!
At the track regarding reliability "Stock is best" rings true. Modded cars seem to spend lot's of their life being worked on instead of being driven. The engine in the GS lives it's life between 3500 and 6500 rpm. Slow corners are third gear corners typically at around 3500 rpm so the engine needs to make decent power down low. I do like the first three gears in the GS and its favorable 3rd gear ratio for road course work so I don't think a final drive ratio change is needed.
With that said what mods are available that will keep the reliability but add a bit more usable power? I am really open to any suggestions anyone has. Ultimate power is not the goal. Knowing what the car is used for and that it never sees anymore life as a street car is it possible there is a tried and true way for the dry sump LS3 to make 425-450 rwhp reliably? If someone could lay out what that looks like from a mods standpoint that would be awesome! Thanks in advance!!
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 20,352
Likes: 568
From: Ventura County, Calif
Probably get some help in the Auto-X/Roadracing Forum:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...roadracing-23/
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...roadracing-23/
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 59
Likes: 13
From: Pineville La
1 7/8" longtube headers with 3" off-road X pipe and a 3" axle back with a dyno tune should have you break into the 400 rwhp range and remain hammer reliable. I've read most CAI systems for LS3 don't really help.
After that you're going to have to give up some reliability; a cam package would probably be the way I'd go. You don't have to go too big to hit the 425-450 rwhp goal but you'd still have more wear and tear on valve springs, etc. so you'd have to factor in replacing them periodically.
Or you could break the bank and swap in a OEM LS7 or LS9...
After that you're going to have to give up some reliability; a cam package would probably be the way I'd go. You don't have to go too big to hit the 425-450 rwhp goal but you'd still have more wear and tear on valve springs, etc. so you'd have to factor in replacing them periodically.
Or you could break the bank and swap in a OEM LS7 or LS9...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,083
Likes: 1,230
From: Chalfont PA
1 7/8" longtube headers with 3" off-road X pipe and a 3" axle back with a dyno tune should have you break into the 400 rwhp range and remain hammer reliable. I've read most CAI systems for LS3 don't really help.
After that you're going to have to give up some reliability; a cam package would probably be the way I'd go. You don't have to go too big to hit the 425-450 rwhp goal but you'd still have more wear and tear on valve springs, etc. so you'd have to factor in replacing them periodically.
Or you could break the bank and swap in a OEM LS7 or LS9...
After that you're going to have to give up some reliability; a cam package would probably be the way I'd go. You don't have to go too big to hit the 425-450 rwhp goal but you'd still have more wear and tear on valve springs, etc. so you'd have to factor in replacing them periodically.
Or you could break the bank and swap in a OEM LS7 or LS9...
I am thinking for the money I will run the Vararam as well. Obviously most of the driving she will be doing will be higher speeds and that seems to be where a Vararam can make some difference.
Without doing a cam is there any reason to do an intake?
This is my thinking:
Vararam
Fast Intake?
1 7/8 longtubes with open exhaust or small burns stainless mufflers.
Tune
Hoping for 410-420 reliable rwhp.
At that power level she will be able to drive it and have fun without a lot of stuff driving right by her on the straights.
When she feels she needs more power I will look at the 525hp LS3 from GM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,083
Likes: 1,230
From: Chalfont PA
Probably get some help in the Auto-X/Roadracing Forum:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...roadracing-23/
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...roadracing-23/
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 856
Likes: 74
From: Ave Maria FL
Thanks! I am thinking for the money I will run the Vararam as well. Obviously most of the driving she will be doing will be higher speeds and that seems to be where a Vararam can make some difference. Without doing a cam is there any reason to do an intake? This is my thinking: Vararam Fast Intake? 1 7/8 longtubes with open exhaust or small burns stainless mufflers. Tune Hoping for 410-420 reliable rwhp. At that power level she will be able to drive it and have fun without a lot of stuff driving right by her on the straights. When she feels she needs more power I will look at the 525hp LS3 from GM.
I'm planning on doing a mild cam with its focus on low end torque (219/230, 590 lift, 111 LSA), 1 3/4 headers and a tune. Possibly a Haltech, and that's it for engine. I already have the PVC catch can and you'll want that. Braided steel brake lines, brake fluid change to the Castrol that others recommend. Front brake disks can crack so be ready with those. I think the stock GS pads stop fine for me now, but we'll see what next year brings.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,083
Likes: 1,230
From: Chalfont PA
You sound like you're trying to do the same thing as I am. I've read that the Vararam sits in front of the radiator blocking some cooling ability, so I'm staying away from it.
I'm planning on doing a mild cam with its focus on low end torque (219/230, 590 lift, 111 LSA), 1 3/4 headers and a tune. Possibly a Haltech, and that's it for engine. I already have the PVC catch can and you'll want that. Braided steel brake lines, brake fluid change to the Castrol that others recommend. Front brake disks can crack so be ready with those. I think the stock GS pads stop fine for me now, but we'll see what next year brings.
I'm planning on doing a mild cam with its focus on low end torque (219/230, 590 lift, 111 LSA), 1 3/4 headers and a tune. Possibly a Haltech, and that's it for engine. I already have the PVC catch can and you'll want that. Braided steel brake lines, brake fluid change to the Castrol that others recommend. Front brake disks can crack so be ready with those. I think the stock GS pads stop fine for me now, but we'll see what next year brings.
I have decided I won't open the engine up. No cam or anything internal for the GS. My wife is already quicker than most drivers she runs with so she really doesn't need the 450 - 500 whp yet. (For reference her lap times at most tracks are a touch quicker than a good friend in his 509 whp 06' Z06). I know as she moves up and gets more experience she will need the car to be faster just to keep pace with the extremely fast cars we run with in the upper run groups. At that time the 525 hp LS3 will be the consideration.
I think we are down to 3 sets of rotors now after this past season. She cracked the fronts at our last event at Summit. I have used SRF for the clutch and brakes for awhile now. Doesn't absorb moisture like other brake fluids. I am pleased with the results I have had using that stuff.
She is excited for next season already. At the very least the GS will handle well and be loud and scary as she has requested. lol!
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
1.I would upgrade the radiator. Dewits is a personal choice, there are several other good brands you can consider.
2. brake pads- get a compound that will resist fading
3. Sway bars.- nothing too crazy. The GM bars don't balance well. get a stiffer front bar. eibach, pfadt, and some others are all good places to look.
4. For more power, don't go crazy. Headers, cold air intake, tune. The pfadt headers are tri-y and will give you more usable torque which is a plus on the course.
2. brake pads- get a compound that will resist fading
3. Sway bars.- nothing too crazy. The GM bars don't balance well. get a stiffer front bar. eibach, pfadt, and some others are all good places to look.
4. For more power, don't go crazy. Headers, cold air intake, tune. The pfadt headers are tri-y and will give you more usable torque which is a plus on the course.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,083
Likes: 1,230
From: Chalfont PA
1.I would upgrade the radiator. Dewits is a personal choice, there are several other good brands you can consider.
2. brake pads- get a compound that will resist fading
3. Sway bars.- nothing too crazy. The GM bars don't balance well. get a stiffer front bar. eibach, pfadt, and some others are all good places to look.
4. For more power, don't go crazy. Headers, cold air intake, tune. The pfadt headers are tri-y and will give you more usable torque which is a plus on the course.
2. brake pads- get a compound that will resist fading
3. Sway bars.- nothing too crazy. The GM bars don't balance well. get a stiffer front bar. eibach, pfadt, and some others are all good places to look.
4. For more power, don't go crazy. Headers, cold air intake, tune. The pfadt headers are tri-y and will give you more usable torque which is a plus on the course.
On my wifes car I use Carbotech XP12 F and XP10 R from Adam. My wife likes them so far. Last time I drove it I used a Hawk DTC70 F and incinerated the boots. We use an XP24 I on the wreck I drive now and they have decent initial bite.
What do you mean when you say the GM bars don't balance well? The stock bars or the T1 bars?
Your suggestions for power are appreciated. Along the lines of what I was thinking also.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 825
Likes: 20
From: Laplata Maryland
Road Courses you want to keep things cool. With a Vararam you will be cutting a hole in your shroud, this will not help you, with either cooling or aero lift. Tires, brakes and keeping the car in operating temp range. Best mod would be the driver maybe some schooling, I did and it helps especially halfway through a run, you just start picking them off one by one. If you need any mods maybe sway bar bushings, radiator, headers and hallltech intake with a mild tune to find more torque.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,083
Likes: 1,230
From: Chalfont PA
Thank you! I appreciate the input.
I have tried over the past 2 years to put her with different instructors and it looks like it has been helpful. Driver mod and a good set of slicks is the most efficient way to get faster.
My goal is to just do this one time and keep the so far bulletproof reliability in tact.
I am a bit confused when I get the Halltech suggestion as it seems that its a CAI like the Vararam? They both look like they will get in the way of efficient cooling?
Now I am thinking Fast 102, larger throttle body, tri y headers, and a tune. Do I keep the cats or no? Do I get a larger radiator with integrated oil cooler?
At this point I have the brakes and the suspension covered. My wife just wants the car to have a touch more power.
I have tried over the past 2 years to put her with different instructors and it looks like it has been helpful. Driver mod and a good set of slicks is the most efficient way to get faster.
My goal is to just do this one time and keep the so far bulletproof reliability in tact.
I am a bit confused when I get the Halltech suggestion as it seems that its a CAI like the Vararam? They both look like they will get in the way of efficient cooling?
Now I am thinking Fast 102, larger throttle body, tri y headers, and a tune. Do I keep the cats or no? Do I get a larger radiator with integrated oil cooler?
At this point I have the brakes and the suspension covered. My wife just wants the car to have a touch more power.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,031
Likes: 159
From: Daytona Beach FL
I went down this road myself, here is my .02...
Don't need a fast intake if you aren't really opening up the engine, as it wont get a big gain without other supporting mods.
What I ended up with:
BPP CAI Intake
Pfadt Headers and xpipe-no cats
Corsa Extreme Exhaust
Canned tune for the above- ABout to get custom tuned and expecting to be close to 460 wheel....
I am right around 450 rwhp... I have zero complaints and zero issues with this setup and power is tough to beat!
Don't need a fast intake if you aren't really opening up the engine, as it wont get a big gain without other supporting mods.
What I ended up with:
BPP CAI Intake
Pfadt Headers and xpipe-no cats
Corsa Extreme Exhaust
Canned tune for the above- ABout to get custom tuned and expecting to be close to 460 wheel....
I am right around 450 rwhp... I have zero complaints and zero issues with this setup and power is tough to beat!
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,667
Likes: 159
UrbanKnight, I live just north of you, I'm looking at something very similar for my GS too.
I'll PM you, to hopefully get to check your setup out in person.
OP, keep us updated where you end up at, very good info, thanks.
I'll PM you, to hopefully get to check your setup out in person.
OP, keep us updated where you end up at, very good info, thanks.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,259
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas NV
St. Jude Donor '10
The stock radiator is plenty for what you're pushing. My sig shows my 600+ RWHP Speed Channel car...at that point, using the stock radiator.
If anything, a simple 160 or 180 t-stat, a fan upgrade, and judicious use of thermal tape on cooler lines would work wonders, and be cheaper.
Some like the Dewitts dual fan setup, but even thats unnecessary. I opted for a single high cfm/low voltage SPAL puller. About 500cfm more airflow than stock AND using 3-5v less power...so better cooling with less drain on the electrical system.
Coupling that with just wrapping the trans/oil cooler lines (any line near an exhaust pipe) in $5 worth of foil heat tape, dropped temps 15-20*. With a brand new fan, new t-stat, and tape...less than $200.
I've got tons of tricks that don't fall under the Corvette tax.
If anything, a simple 160 or 180 t-stat, a fan upgrade, and judicious use of thermal tape on cooler lines would work wonders, and be cheaper.
Some like the Dewitts dual fan setup, but even thats unnecessary. I opted for a single high cfm/low voltage SPAL puller. About 500cfm more airflow than stock AND using 3-5v less power...so better cooling with less drain on the electrical system.
Coupling that with just wrapping the trans/oil cooler lines (any line near an exhaust pipe) in $5 worth of foil heat tape, dropped temps 15-20*. With a brand new fan, new t-stat, and tape...less than $200.
I've got tons of tricks that don't fall under the Corvette tax.
Racer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 422
Likes: 6
From: Boca Raton Florida
I current have an 2008 z51 track car and a Spec Miata, I race in Nasa, PCa Instructor, skip barber school, yadaya, so I been around track for a few years, raced for the last three. Had all kinds of cars, lotus, P cars, panoz,etc. just a little background.
two parts here car and driver
Car- I find the c6 benefits from race seats,and harness if you do not have them a great deal of control and confidence is gained. Other than that a car with the power to weight ratio and the other mods you have on the car is difficult to beat unless you are up against a full on race car.
With that said, the best mod she or you can get is a track mate, or similar device and someone who can review the data to see were she is doing good,need improvement and set goals and work towards those goals. I have seen cars with less Hp, or corning ability blow by much faster cars with the correct driver. No dissing or insulting her skill or your, but from experience the best mod is skill, understanding, knowing how to improve.
two parts here car and driver
Car- I find the c6 benefits from race seats,and harness if you do not have them a great deal of control and confidence is gained. Other than that a car with the power to weight ratio and the other mods you have on the car is difficult to beat unless you are up against a full on race car.
With that said, the best mod she or you can get is a track mate, or similar device and someone who can review the data to see were she is doing good,need improvement and set goals and work towards those goals. I have seen cars with less Hp, or corning ability blow by much faster cars with the correct driver. No dissing or insulting her skill or your, but from experience the best mod is skill, understanding, knowing how to improve.
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 42
Likes: 6
From: Lafayette IN
Exactly what I was thinking. 10 yrs. of HPDE and you discover it's all driver. Anything that improves the relation between the car and driver including keeping power changes incremental, is the way to go. Also be safe, I've seen many up and coming drivers, including myself, discover the limit of their abilities after two or three years of confidence building.
Regards,
DaveT
Regards,
DaveT
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,083
Likes: 1,230
From: Chalfont PA
Thanks for the radiator info. I appreciate that. I will make those changes.
Agreed on the driver and the importance of skill development. While she is no longer an instructed driver I will make sure that she has someone in the car with her from time to time in order to help her improve. We use the Race Keeper DAS in my car currently and I am installing that in my wife's car for 2014. Data and visual's are great tools for learning.
This C6 is a proven platform and she will get great use out of it for many years to come.
Agreed on the driver and the importance of skill development. While she is no longer an instructed driver I will make sure that she has someone in the car with her from time to time in order to help her improve. We use the Race Keeper DAS in my car currently and I am installing that in my wife's car for 2014. Data and visual's are great tools for learning.
This C6 is a proven platform and she will get great use out of it for many years to come.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 954
Likes: 21
From: White Oak, GA
If she can get to the FATT next week, I can help her out. There can't be more than a couple of cars at any time that would be capable of blowing by a Corvette. They never blow by me.
I'll be instructing and driving my C6. Unless it rains; then I'll drive a WRX.
I'll be instructing and driving my C6. Unless it rains; then I'll drive a WRX.