CI GS

NJ_phil

So I went to the BTR website to see what pushrods are available in case I need different ones and saw a WARNING that my .660" spring kit /w titanium retainers is not recommended for roller rockers, only stock. The kit uses SP001 springs and they recommend SP002 for rollersw. Sent this email to Jared at BTR:

Jared,,
I purchased a SK001/T/0560/BB spring kit a while back and now changing stock rockers to Comp Ultra Golds. I see a warning on your website the SP001s in my kit won't work with roller rockers.
Does that warning also apply to the Ultra Golds or just heavier race rollers??

Thanks
Phil

His response:
"If they are light enough they may work ok, we just dont recommend a heavy rocker with that spring"

Question is has anyone ever weighed the new version of the Ultras and the stock OEM rockers.

EDIT: I was more worried about interference fit on the Ultras but it looks like just a possibility of float on heavy rollers. Would think I'd be fine under 7000

CI GS

I'm pretty sure that's the same spring I'm running, although when I got them from Vengeance, they came in a plain unmarked box without any specs.
I can tell you that I can hit the 7200 rev limit with them though...

NJ_phil

Got my rockers and immediately noticed these suckers are heavy. Most of the weight is centered around the trunion but I might do a comparison between weight at the valve step which is where the damaging inertia comes from. Regardless, they are super nice and going in. Won't bore you with a pic of yet another box of Ultra Golds.

NJ_phil

yes I will:

CI GS

I waiting for the results. And if I come to the conclusion that I need new valvesprings, I'm definitely gonna change the heads.

realcanuk

I'm using the BTR 650 max pressure springs at Brians recommendation... because of roller rockers.

CI GS

Ain't they pretty?! Someone really ought to do a clear poly carb valve cover so we can show these gems off.

NJ_phil

sheeeeiiiittt!

Yea, they are nice looking

BTR's recommendation for roller rockers is SP002:
Spring specs are 150 lbs @ 1.800", 420 lbs @ 1.200" 450 lbs @ 1.150" coil bind @ 1.100".

I've got SP001:
Spring specs are 155 lbs @ 1.780", 380 lbs @ 1.180", 400 lbs @ 1.130, coild bind @ 1.070"

Not exactly sure what Canuks are but 850 is close to double the SP002s. Holy crap !

Not sure why they don't provide pressures at the same compression but my paltry .590 lift isn't even included in the provided range of the spec. (590 x 1.72 = 1.015" at the valve). Amazing how non-linear these things are and wish I could get a curve on both.

The description for the cam I have specifically mentioned "easy on parts" so I'm hoping the BTR recommendation is just for more radical profiles, high lift, sharp lobes. It's an ECS Big Blower cam and sure they have done many cars with these rockers since they are popular along with BTRs SP001s.

Maybe Doug can chime in or I'll email him.

realcanuk

Specs for my 650 max lift springs.

Spring specs are 150 lbs @ 1.800", 420 lbs @ 1.200" 450 lbs @ 1.150" coil bind @ 1.100"

NJ_phil

My eyes are getting old....thought I read 850. Sorry about that.
Those are the SP002s. I gave Jared the cam specs and asked Jared to run it by Bryan. Lift is actually lower than .590. Wrong there to

Pretty much prepared to get the SP002s unless he says otherwise or I measure less that 5% increase at the valve tip when I compare them tomorrow.

CI GS

So that sounds like the 650 Max lift springs are the same spec as the SP002??
So what's the often touted BTR "Platinum 660" spring?

SacCityCorvette

Hi,
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We have more info on how it works here.
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Thanks
Christian

CI GS

Thanks Christian. I've read up on that from awhile ago, and if it wasn't so hard to get to, I would've installed one of those already. You guys make some very neat products. I also like your crank seal alignment tool kit. If/when I pull the engine or drivetrain that I can get at that barbell, I'll be giving you a call.

NJ_phil

There's so many variables on valve springs. I never understood why manufacturers spec lift on a spring because they don't know the rocker ratio. Coil bind which is the max the spring can compress determines max lift.

The specs on SP002 show higher pressures at each of the 3 compressed dimension yet lower "lift" (.650" vs .660)" which might mean they simply went with heavier coils and didn't change materials or something else to strengthen it. Heavier coils would increase the coil bind dimension and lower rated lift.

Back in the day I ran a fully rollered 302 SBC, 12.5:1cr, .030" p/v up past 8000rpm where springs selection was super critical but my setup now is so much easier on the valve train that just about anything will work fine.

NJ_phil

So the SP001s are too weak for the additional rotating mass of the Comp Ultras.
I'll need to change retainers/seats and keepers to upgrade to the SP002s ($300) or I can just shim the SP001s .030" to get the correct pressure.

So I ordered the shims and 7.425 pushrods to meet the minimum order and free shipping

The main problem is the low lift of this cam doesn't compress the springs enough to get it to a decent working pressure. Even if I purchased the SP002s, a shim is recommend because lack of lift.

My take away was nobody at BTR is a fan of ultra golds and recommended staying with stock rockers and just doing a trunion upgrade. I heard someone say that before too LOL.

shoot me

CI GS

Bang!
This SP001 vs. SP002 spring revelation is starting to **** me off now, because I'm sure now that I must have the SP001s, except that they came in a plain cardboard box from VR. I did speak to Tooley about them before (when I was concerned that the retainers were a tad too small) and they confirmed that it was their spring and Ti retainers, but I don't recall if they said which spring. Looks like it must be the lighter "Platinum" spring though, because according to BTRs website, the SP002s are black in coulour.
I'm glad you shared this though. I don't recall seeing all of that red writing on the BTR website when I looked at it months ago.
BTW: Were you able to ascertain the effective weight of the Ultra Gold rockers?
I did the Comp trunnions, but decided to replace those with these rockers. I guess it's a choice between risking early valve float or metal particles/needle bearings in your engine oil...?

NJ_phil

I think the SP001 is the shinier of the two springs. Not sure what your cam lift is but maybe this doesn't apply if you're in the .620" - .640" range cause you will get more pressure. That RED writing only shows up when you look at the specs for the individual spring but have to select the retainer and seal type when configuring the kit in order to see the Warning there..

Sold my gram scale years ago along with my coke cutting stuff and meth lab hardware and ordered a new one for $8 from Amazon, .01g resolution and will have it tonight. Let you know the weight at the tip and gross weight but wont bull off the stock rockers till the the shims get here....maybe mid week

schpenxel

Gotta hate when you have to sell your coke and meth stuff

realcanuk

I bought my springs and rockers like 4 years ago and at that time Brian told me to use the 650 springs due to the rockers................so there is nothing new there.

Personally I would use these rockers over a trunion upgrade any time, considering how many problems ive read about with the trunnions....