Lifter wear - Does this look normal?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
Can you say roughly what the difference in length of the pushrod would be going from the LS7 lifter to either the 2110 or 2110R, all other things remaining equal?
I note the Rs have a special retainer that sets the plunger 0.035” down into the lifter to reduce travel vs. the standard 2110, but are the lifters themselves shorter/longer than the LS7?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
I didn’t have any shims anyway.
But if it’s excessive spring pressure that caused this, then what the hell are those guys with the HD springs (like the ones I just today received from BTR) and bigass cams with 1.8 ratio rockers doing? After all, this is the “LS7” lifter, so I’m sure that there’s lots of guys running much more spring pressure on their LS7 setups.
I think you hit the nail on the head earlier with the damn Mobil 1.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
I've been running Euro spec Mobil 1 0w40 in my LS3's. It has much higher zinc and phosphorous levels than the other Mob 1 oils.
I believe Lingenfelter recs using 15/50 Mob 1 in anything they supercharge. Just food for thought. I'd use the 0/40 in any stock short block LS3 and whatever the engine builder recommends for a "built" engine.
I believe Lingenfelter recs using 15/50 Mob 1 in anything they supercharge. Just food for thought. I'd use the 0/40 in any stock short block LS3 and whatever the engine builder recommends for a "built" engine.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
Umm, don't start that. Andy's the only one who's always right
And he's off somewhere in ZL1 Camaro land.
And personally, I'd get Pat G to spec you a cam. Not much of a fan of the really wide LSA blower cams. Especially with big duration valve events like BTR's Stage III.
And he's off somewhere in ZL1 Camaro land. And personally, I'd get Pat G to spec you a cam. Not much of a fan of the really wide LSA blower cams. Especially with big duration valve events like BTR's Stage III.
Wait, I swear that you told me once I should ask Brian for a Stage III cam. You really are a terrible influence.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,820
Likes: 411
From: Montreal
St. Jude Donor '13
Originally Posted by CI GS
Nope. I installed the kit as I received it from VR. As I was installing it on a hydraulic cam street engine with <2,500 miles that had never had a valve job, etc., I figured that I could get away without being that **** and shimming each spring to get absolutely exactly matched installed height, lol.
I didn’t have any shims anyway.
But if it’s excessive spring pressure that caused this, then what the hell are those guys with the HD springs (like the ones I just today received from BTR) and bigass cams with 1.8 ratio rockers doing? After all, this is the “LS7” lifter, so I’m sure that there’s lots of guys running much more spring pressure on their LS7 setups.
I think you hit the nail on the head earlier with the damn Mobil 1.
I didn’t have any shims anyway.
But if it’s excessive spring pressure that caused this, then what the hell are those guys with the HD springs (like the ones I just today received from BTR) and bigass cams with 1.8 ratio rockers doing? After all, this is the “LS7” lifter, so I’m sure that there’s lots of guys running much more spring pressure on their LS7 setups.
I think you hit the nail on the head earlier with the damn Mobil 1.
I'd agree that most likely contributor might be the oil. I remember reading they have constantly reduced the zinc content over the years.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
All I can say regarding that is I am running the BTR 650 springs, 1.82 roller rockers and the morel linkbar lifters. The cam is from comp. had the heads off last winter and looked closely at the cam and lifters. Everything looked as new. I'd say maybe 5000 miles at most. I'm pretty sure the lifters have a bigger wheel but I don't think that contributes. Springs were checked and installed to proper heights.
I'd agree that most likely contributor might be the oil. I remember reading they have constantly reduced the zinc content over the years.
I'd agree that most likely contributor might be the oil. I remember reading they have constantly reduced the zinc content over the years.
It must be the oil or the cam core causing a problem. The cam looks perfect from what I can see. I’ll inspect that properly too.
I have a case of Mobil 1 in the garbage that I’m going to give away tomorrow!
Drifting
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,525
Likes: 391
From: Martinez CA
Amsoil makes that Zrod 10-30 (and like a 20-50?), which is high in zinc (ZDDP). As are the M1 racing oils, and their 15-50. I've even entertained the motorcycle oils as they look good on paper (HT/HS, ZDDP, etc).
Unreal is a big fan of the ZRod...
(The ZDDP level is one controversial issue, LOL)
Unreal is a big fan of the ZRod...
(The ZDDP level is one controversial issue, LOL)
Thanks for that. I think the bigger wheel helps more with side loading of the lifters at the bottom of the bore.
It must be the oil or the cam core causing a problem. The cam looks perfect from what I can see. I’ll inspect that properly too.
I have a case of Mobil 1 in the garbage that I’m going to give away tomorrow!
It must be the oil or the cam core causing a problem. The cam looks perfect from what I can see. I’ll inspect that properly too.
I have a case of Mobil 1 in the garbage that I’m going to give away tomorrow!
Last edited by Chiselchst; Jan 5, 2018 at 09:27 PM.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know
Joe Kucinski
5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2
Michael S. Palmer
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
Amsoil makes that Zrod 10-30 (and like a 20-50?), which is high in zinc (ZDDP). As are the M1 racing oils, and their 15-50. I've even entertained the motorcycle oils as they look good on paper (HT/HS, ZDDP, etc).
Unreal is a big fan of the ZRod...
(The ZDDP level is one controversial issue, LOL)
Unreal is a big fan of the ZRod...
(The ZDDP level is one controversial issue, LOL)
). That’s me and a friend of mine running at about 85 knots in the ocean a few years back in our now defunct annual poker run. That shot was taken from a helicopter, just a few minutes before we hit a wake from a boat we were lapping and spun out on the last turn and nearly flipped it. What a rush that was. Yeah, drag racing in a car is boring **** compared to that.
Drifting
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,525
Likes: 391
From: Martinez CA
Holy crap Sammy, damn thing looks like it could shoot down an F16!
And you still have kidneys, too? LOL
Piston/recips on the water get brutal treatment, running ***** out all day - unloaded/loaded HARD like you said. Is that a surface drive? Arneson - inventor of a surface drive local to me - switched from piston engines to turbines as they are meant to operate at 100% all day...after he kept blowing engines.
You're one brave hombre brother!
Okay, sorry to digress...
And you still have kidneys, too? LOL
Piston/recips on the water get brutal treatment, running ***** out all day - unloaded/loaded HARD like you said. Is that a surface drive? Arneson - inventor of a surface drive local to me - switched from piston engines to turbines as they are meant to operate at 100% all day...after he kept blowing engines.
You're one brave hombre brother!
Okay, sorry to digress...
Yep, I’m familiar with the Amsoil ZRod oil. I also recall that the Motorcycle engine/wet clutch Mobil oil was very popular with the I/O boating guys on offshoreonly.com for that very reason: it was high in ZDDP. And there’s no kind of engine that gets the stress of an offshore race boat: high load, high rpm, loading and unloading as the boat leaves and re-enters the water, whilst being pitched around in the waves. If an oil stands up in that environment, it should stand up in your car. Nothing compares to that. The picture below will give you an idea of what I mean (yeah, I know it’s completely off-topic, but that’s how we roll up in here). That’s me and a friend of mine running at about 85 knots in the ocean a few years back in our now defunct annual poker run. That shot was taken from a helicopter, just a few minutes before we hit a wake from a boat we were lapping and spun out on the last turn and nearly flipped it. What a rush that was. Yeah, drag racing in a car is boring **** compared to that.
). That’s me and a friend of mine running at about 85 knots in the ocean a few years back in our now defunct annual poker run. That shot was taken from a helicopter, just a few minutes before we hit a wake from a boat we were lapping and spun out on the last turn and nearly flipped it. What a rush that was. Yeah, drag racing in a car is boring **** compared to that.
Drifting
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,623
Likes: 51
From: Gastonia North Carolina
Thanks. That is good news. I really want to get my hands on a set of those, even if I have to wait an extra week to put the engine back together. I’m thinking of going with the 2110R lifter.
Can you say roughly what the difference in length of the pushrod would be going from the LS7 lifter to either the 2110 or 2110R, all other things remaining equal?
I note the Rs have a special retainer that sets the plunger 0.035” down into the lifter to reduce travel vs. the standard 2110, but are the lifters themselves shorter/longer than the LS7?
Can you say roughly what the difference in length of the pushrod would be going from the LS7 lifter to either the 2110 or 2110R, all other things remaining equal?
I note the Rs have a special retainer that sets the plunger 0.035” down into the lifter to reduce travel vs. the standard 2110, but are the lifters themselves shorter/longer than the LS7?
The last set I purchased created some questions on my end after the install. my car has 20k miles and always had 32-38 hot idle OP. After the Lifter change my OP dropped to 22-24 hot idle. The 2110 lifters measured .8420" and my factory lifters measured .8423" - .8424".
At the end of the day that .0003" - .0004" additional clearance resulted in -10psi OP at hot idle.
Has it created any issues in 10k miles? Nothing that I can tell, however I would sleep easier if I had measured and had them ground specific.
I'm a firm believer in Johnson lifters and I'm confident Randy can grind you exactly the size to meet the factory tolerances within a micron.
Only way to tell the extent of the roller wear would be to run a profilometer across several measuring the Ra. While they're out change them.
I've ran the LS7 lifters in many engines and have not had issues. One thing that is certain, the 2110's are not as audible as the LS7. Must be better quality correct?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
Let me point out, while Randy has joined the thread make sure you measure the bore diameter prior to ordering.
The last set I purchased created some questions on my end after the install. my car has 20k miles and always had 32-38 hot idle OP. After the Lifter change my OP dropped to 22-24 hot idle. The 2110 lifters measured .8420" and my factory lifters measured .8423" - .8424".
At the end of the day that .0003" - .0004" additional clearance resulted in -10psi OP at hot idle.
Has it created any issues in 10k miles? Nothing that I can tell, however I would sleep easier if I had measured and had them ground specific.
I'm a firm believer in Johnson lifters and I'm confident Randy can grind you exactly the size to meet the factory tolerances within a micron.
Only way to tell the extent of the roller wear would be to run a profilometer across several measuring the Ra. While they're out change them.
I've ran the LS7 lifters in many engines and have not had issues. One thing that is certain, the 2110's are not as audible as the LS7. Must be better quality correct?
The last set I purchased created some questions on my end after the install. my car has 20k miles and always had 32-38 hot idle OP. After the Lifter change my OP dropped to 22-24 hot idle. The 2110 lifters measured .8420" and my factory lifters measured .8423" - .8424".
At the end of the day that .0003" - .0004" additional clearance resulted in -10psi OP at hot idle.
Has it created any issues in 10k miles? Nothing that I can tell, however I would sleep easier if I had measured and had them ground specific.
I'm a firm believer in Johnson lifters and I'm confident Randy can grind you exactly the size to meet the factory tolerances within a micron.
Only way to tell the extent of the roller wear would be to run a profilometer across several measuring the Ra. While they're out change them.
I've ran the LS7 lifters in many engines and have not had issues. One thing that is certain, the 2110's are not as audible as the LS7. Must be better quality correct?
I’m thinking that with the little extra lifter bore clearance, your camshaft and lifters should be getting some extra oiling right where it’s needed. That’s the silver lining there, I guess.
What’s your oil pressure like at WOT/max rpm? I have a Melling HP/HV oil pump, which should help. I was getting ~40 psi at idle and ~75psi at 6500+rpm at operating temps, iirc.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
Holy crap Sammy, damn thing looks like it could shoot down an F16!
And you still have kidneys, too? LOL
Piston/recips on the water get brutal treatment, running ***** out all day - unloaded/loaded HARD like you said. Is that a surface drive? Arneson - inventor of a surface drive local to me - switched from piston engines to turbines as they are meant to operate at 100% all day...after he kept blowing engines.
You're one brave hombre brother!
Okay, sorry to digress...
And you still have kidneys, too? LOL
Piston/recips on the water get brutal treatment, running ***** out all day - unloaded/loaded HARD like you said. Is that a surface drive? Arneson - inventor of a surface drive local to me - switched from piston engines to turbines as they are meant to operate at 100% all day...after he kept blowing engines.
You're one brave hombre brother!
Okay, sorry to digress...
The boat in the pic is an FB hull, designed by Fabio Buzzi, undisputedably the best race boat designer ever. It’s powered by a Seatek twin turbo diesel (which can crank out up to 1450hp) with a Trimax drive, all designed by Buzzi. The whole thing is designed to enable it to pierce a wave and return to the surface. Lots of crazy clever stuff in the design. The rear wings are what kept it from barrel rolling when we spun it out and probably saved our lives, because we found out after that there was no oxygen in the life support system.
Yeah, I’ve done some crazy **** in my time.
Okay, my bad, I’ve digressed again. Back to the lifters...
Racer
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 488
Likes: 76
Yep, I’m familiar with the Amsoil ZRod oil. I also recall that the Motorcycle engine/wet clutch Mobil oil was very popular with the I/O boating guys on offshoreonly.com for that very reason: it was high in ZDDP. And there’s no kind of engine that gets the stress of an offshore race boat: high load, high rpm, loading and unloading as the boat leaves and re-enters the water, whilst being pitched around in the waves. If an oil stands up in that environment, it should stand up in your car. Nothing compares to that. The picture below will give you an idea of what I mean (yeah, I know it’s completely off-topic, but that’s how we roll up in here). That’s me and a friend of mine running at about 85 knots in the ocean a few years back in our now defunct annual poker run. That shot was taken from a helicopter, just a few minutes before we hit a wake from a boat we were lapping and spun out on the last turn and nearly flipped it. What a rush that was. Yeah, drag racing in a car is boring **** compared to that.
). That’s me and a friend of mine running at about 85 knots in the ocean a few years back in our now defunct annual poker run. That shot was taken from a helicopter, just a few minutes before we hit a wake from a boat we were lapping and spun out on the last turn and nearly flipped it. What a rush that was. Yeah, drag racing in a car is boring **** compared to that.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
Safety Car
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 3,807
Likes: 508
From: Oshawa, Ontario
This is all very good info. Thanks very much for this.
I’m thinking that with the little extra lifter bore clearance, your camshaft and lifters should be getting some extra oiling right where it’s needed. That’s the silver lining there, I guess.
What’s your oil pressure like at WOT/max rpm? I have a Melling HP/HV oil pump, which should help. I was getting ~40 psi at idle and ~75psi at 6500+rpm at operating temps, iirc.
I’m thinking that with the little extra lifter bore clearance, your camshaft and lifters should be getting some extra oiling right where it’s needed. That’s the silver lining there, I guess.
What’s your oil pressure like at WOT/max rpm? I have a Melling HP/HV oil pump, which should help. I was getting ~40 psi at idle and ~75psi at 6500+rpm at operating temps, iirc.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
Get worse, how? What smaller diameter lifters? I’m not planning to buy smaller diameter lifters. We were talking about a difference in diameter of .0003-.0004”, which would mean more lifter to bore clearance and slightly lower hot oil pressure. I can’t see how either of those things could have contributed to the slight galling of the rollers on my lifters, so how would the Johnson lifers make my issues worse? Am I missing something here?
Safety Car
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 3,807
Likes: 508
From: Oshawa, Ontario
Get worse, how? What smaller diameter lifters? I’m not planning to buy smaller diameter lifters. We were talking about a difference in diameter of .0003-.0004”, which would mean more lifter to bore clearance and slightly lower hot oil pressure. I can’t see how either of those things could have contributed to the slight galling of the rollers on my lifters, so how would the Johnson lifers make my issues worse? Am I missing something here?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
Okay, understood. I don’t want a drop in oil pressure either, although my car has much higher pressure now with the Melling HV/HP pump than it did with the stock pump. I thought the pressure drop that folks were reporting on the Johnsons was for the pin oiler version, until z06scentair posted his very useful advice on here.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 3,807
Likes: 508
From: Oshawa, Ontario
Okay, understood. I don’t want a drop in oil pressure either, although my car has much higher pressure now with the Melling HV/HP pump than it did with the stock pump. I thought the pressure drop that folks were reporting on the Johnsons was for the pin oiler version, until z06scentair posted his very useful advice on here.
Last edited by irok; Jan 6, 2018 at 11:39 AM.