Should I Switch to a Stroker
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,865
Likes: 107
From: God's Country, ID
Here is the latest update on my engine/car. I decided to stay with what I had, but build it stronger. Everything in the engine that moves is bad and everything is being replaced. I mean everything, There were pieces of a lifter, brass sparkles, along with other metal stuff in the oil pan. The block is still good so far. Hopefully they don't find anything else. The work being done is at a very respected performance shop and the engine is also at a very respected performance engine shop. Everything being replaced is better than OEM in the motor and the rest of the car. Due to the metal in the engine the radiator is being replaced, stage II clutch, installing new shocks, brakes, and the shaft from the engine has splines that are screwed up. There are several other parts being replaced. When it's all done I will have hell of a stronger drive system and maybe a little more power after the dyno. I will have a hell of a stronger car and should enjoy it for many miles. Thanks for everyones responses and maybe I can let you all know how it runs when it is all done. It's a pain getting parts so it might be a while.
I'm just finishing up an upgrade rebuild and replace of the longblock, A6 tranny, oil/tranny/radiator cooling, turbos, brakes, fuel system etc. The increased parts and shipping costs as well as difficulty of sourcing parts over the last 18-24mos was definitely a test of ones sanity and patience.OEM LS2 block forged "stroker"
Good luck with your build!
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,458
Likes: 325
From: Houston TX
How you drive matters immensely to your perception of the available power.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 1,075
From: South Florida
It's obvious you know your stuff and I agree with everything said. (I know that you know this, but for others certainly may know.) A 3.0L engine with 700 rwhp or a 6.0L engine with 700 rwhp will never be an equivalent experience, regardless of their peak HP numbers.
How you drive matters immensely to your perception of the available power.
How you drive matters immensely to your perception of the available power.
Then the engine just spends the entire time sitting at 700rwhp down the track, it doesn't fall or move from that spot if setup properly. Again, no difference.
I know what you mean but context is important. In terms of drag racing- engine displacement is negligible. And that is what most people think of when they think about how much power a vehicle has a straight line... traction limited performance from a dead stop.
When we take it to the street things change. The smaller displacement will make less torque which means less tire spin at low speeds. It could provide an advantage in the manner which spools a turbo. The smaller displacement also has more organized exhaust side which makes it easier to run twin scroll and tubular style manifolds and has more space for downpipe or whatever hardware assist the output of the turbo style engines. They also may include some modern valve control and 4-valve per cylinder which influence low speed operation significantly, and individual cam timing for example which is ground in hard on a V8 stick. And then there is the lighter rotating mass which influence fuel economy and drivability in some ways superior to the V8.
V8 can generally make more torque at low rpm, which is great on street tires when you have a stock engine. Its just enough torque to compete with the 'built' versions of 2L and 3L engines- you can make what they make using pennies on the dollar and with similar or more reliability (building something does not increase reliability). So there are advantages and reasons why I used a V8 instead of a 3L to make the same power. Pros and cons.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,458
Likes: 325
From: Houston TX
Well it depends on application. IF we are talking drag racing, then you won't be able to tell any difference. In drag racing the engine is 2-stepped on a limiter to some ideal traction based output setting, usually much less than it is capable of, which means no matter how much torque the engine could produce the torque is set to the same number since we are traction limited not torque limited, which means you launch with the same torque- whatever the tire can hold.
Then the engine just spends the entire time sitting at 700rwhp down the track, it doesn't fall or move from that spot if setup properly. Again, no difference.
I know what you mean but context is important. In terms of drag racing- engine displacement is negligible. And that is what most people think of when they think about how much power a vehicle has a straight line... traction limited performance from a dead stop.
When we take it to the street things change. The smaller displacement will make less torque which means less tire spin at low speeds. It could provide an advantage in the manner which spools a turbo. The smaller displacement also has more organized exhaust side which makes it easier to run twin scroll and tubular style manifolds and has more space for downpipe or whatever hardware assist the output of the turbo style engines. They also may include some modern valve control and 4-valve per cylinder which influence low speed operation significantly, and individual cam timing for example which is ground in hard on a V8 stick. And then there is the lighter rotating mass which influence fuel economy and drivability in some ways superior to the V8.
V8 can generally make more torque at low rpm, which is great on street tires when you have a stock engine. Its just enough torque to compete with the 'built' versions of 2L and 3L engines- you can make what they make using pennies on the dollar and with similar or more reliability (building something does not increase reliability). So there are advantages and reasons why I used a V8 instead of a 3L to make the same power. Pros and cons.
Then the engine just spends the entire time sitting at 700rwhp down the track, it doesn't fall or move from that spot if setup properly. Again, no difference.
I know what you mean but context is important. In terms of drag racing- engine displacement is negligible. And that is what most people think of when they think about how much power a vehicle has a straight line... traction limited performance from a dead stop.
When we take it to the street things change. The smaller displacement will make less torque which means less tire spin at low speeds. It could provide an advantage in the manner which spools a turbo. The smaller displacement also has more organized exhaust side which makes it easier to run twin scroll and tubular style manifolds and has more space for downpipe or whatever hardware assist the output of the turbo style engines. They also may include some modern valve control and 4-valve per cylinder which influence low speed operation significantly, and individual cam timing for example which is ground in hard on a V8 stick. And then there is the lighter rotating mass which influence fuel economy and drivability in some ways superior to the V8.
V8 can generally make more torque at low rpm, which is great on street tires when you have a stock engine. Its just enough torque to compete with the 'built' versions of 2L and 3L engines- you can make what they make using pennies on the dollar and with similar or more reliability (building something does not increase reliability). So there are advantages and reasons why I used a V8 instead of a 3L to make the same power. Pros and cons.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 1,075
From: South Florida
Modern turbos have come a long way to eliminating this sort of old school thought. If the vehicle is designed on paper properly, for example if the compressor map is charted mathematically to the exhaust and intake flow capability of the engine and the drivetrain is suited to match- there is no longer any concern over powerband as the engine can make the power no matter where you started peak power, it does not change, merely a straight line.
Some recently examples from my tuned, a 5.3 and a 2.5L
Notice the power remains a somewhat flat line from turbo onset to finish. As long as the drivetrain is setup to procure full boost at whatever gear is selected- the power output will remain consistent the entire time, eliminating the thought or need for 'powerband' in terms of street application. These runs were made using 1:1 gear from a low speed onset which would not be the case on the street. For example you wouldn't put the transmission into 4th gear 1:1 at 30mph and full throttle, it was done strictly for the dyno curve plotting. In reality the transmission will downshift into the 'powerband' but the low speed operation dictated by RPM is no concern- if the turbo spools, then power is the same.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,693
Likes: 485
From: Potomac MD
My Equinox is a 4 cylinder Turbo and is quite zippy in all areas of the power band. It also has a 9 speed transmission so I have no clue what gear I am in at any point in time except maybe a at stop light.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 1,075
From: South Florida
And thanks to the transmission so many gears it can get that rpm up whenever it wants for any situation. So even if the engine is a little peaky it doesn't really matter, the 'powerband' as they say is available at all speeds. Modern tech has its pros and cons though. Sometimes the extra complexity comes at a cost. I prefer engines without all the extraneous hardware- static cams for example. So help me I hate adjustable cam gears on an inline engine. Seems like a good idea until you tune a few of them. For the birds.
