I have a set of Livernois stage 2 CNC ported 243 heads. I put over 250K miles on them and never used a cam under .607 lift. They were used when I bought them also. Only two sets of valve springs too. They are still going strong. I've also had valve jobs and porting done on quite a few LS heads. Valve guides were checked, but none were bad. I agree with you that ramp rates matter. That's why I don't use anyone other than Cam Motion to grind my cams.

Edit...just to be clear. I've never worked on an LS7. Those heads can get excessive valve guide wear even with the stock cam. That's a different breed of cat right there.

 

The reasons I prefer low lift are
1. More suitable for high rpm
2. Requires less spring pressure which benefits entire valvetrain
3. Easier on the lifters and guides and rockers, often we use stock lifters, rockers
4. Lift is not needed to make power with forced induction at street output levels no matter what displacement, i.e. 2L 3L 5L 6L we all use low lift cam

Thus I see no reason to push the issue of lift with any engine. You want more power turn up the boost

 

I guess I missed the part where the OP was even considering F/I.

 

You missed the part where its our job to recommend options which maintain reliability outside the narrow scope of worldview

Not being derisive or curt I just wanted a one liner, no disrespect
Even without FI all of the benefits of low lift are realized minus maybe 3 to 7% additional power at peak rpm. Would somebody sacrifice all of that (theoretical) reliability for a few percentage more peak power? Whats it worth, and how much power? How has the rest of the vehicle, drivetrain, driving conditions, vehicle use, etc... going to benefit from a few extra percentage of peak power given a demand for reliability in the face of extra lift?

 

I'm going this route rather than blowing (no pun intended) 10 grand on a supercharger setup.

 

Eh, that is not really what this discussion is about or my point. I did not recommend a supercharger because your car is already supercharged. The atmosphere provides 14.5psi at sea level of 100% adiabatic efficiency supercharger. It is important for your education of engine breathing as you inquire about various camshaft profiles to understand there are fluid dynamics at work which influence not only pressure but fluid momentum and velocity at various engine frequencies. The VE profile of the engine is determines primarily by the camshaft duration, thus some effective working RPM range in established. The goal for vehicle tuning (selecting a camshaft and rear engine gear ratio and tire height and transmission gear ratios and suspension components is all part of tuning a vehicle) as the tuner is to understand how all these parts will interact and behave before you buy and install them allowing you to make ideal choices and fewer mistakes.

If you are looking for a simple answer I am happy to provide one.
Use the cam with the lowest lift possible to maintain reliability. Use as many stock parts as possible. Do not touch parts with human hands. Find a camshaft with slow ramp rates to preserve the valvetrain components. Match the duration of a camshaft to the engine's frequently operating frequency or RPM range or application.
If it is a daily driver avoid camshafts with performance over 6000rpm. Keep engine redline around or less than 6000rpm for improved reliability in general.

Yes if you follow these simple ideas it will cost power, but it will also ensure maximum factory-like reliability with increased performance nonetheless.
The reason I bring up supercharging is to get you thinking about air pressure and fluid dynamics and asking questions and to facilitate the skepticism and inquiry nature of the human spirit. Think of atmosphere as a supercharger and sea level as maximum boost condition. Research what is adiabatic efficiency. Realize that adding a supercharger to any existing combination is really adding a second, adjustable atmosphere to an engine. In other words, adding control to the atmosphere of an engine. For example, driving up the side of a mountain is reducing air pressure. Imagine you have a dial in the vehicle that when turned to the right, decreased air pressure, like driving up the side of a mountain thousands of feet. That is the purpose of a supercharger or turbocharger in terms of air pressure control, in the palm of your hands. Eventually all performance enthusiasts realize this and work their way into forced induction for the benefit of controlling atmosphere.

Ask yourself some questions,
Does driving to higher elevations where air pressure is lower reduce or increase the reliability of an engine?
At what point does camshaft lift and ramp rates cause excessive wear and tear on an engine?
At what spring pressure does significant valvetrain component wear eclipse factory expectations?
At what spring pressures does frequency of valvespring replacement interval dramatically increase?

 

Just curious, what do you consider..... so much power gained porting the fast intake???? 50hp?

 

Seriously, you're the smartest guy in the room. Everyone in this thread needs to stop what they're doing and bow to the greater intellect. Even non contributors who read this need to do this exercise. Hell, I might do it twice!

Somehow you've missed it, but the VAST VAST majority of folks on this site have no interest in forced induction. I've had two supercharged C6's and my current one is ported heads and a mild cam. I can afford to go f/i, but I choose not to. Some on here don't want to drop the coin to add a forced induction. Some can afford it, but don't see the value (see me). Many reasons not to do it. It's seriously not the obvious choice for anyone and everyone that wants a little more power in a C6.

Ramble on oh great one.

.

 

Old motorhead, you're wasting your time. I've also come to the conclusion, today, that I've been wasting mine, too. You and I see eye to eye on vast majority of things. The "great one" is another eye to eye, for sure......

 

Not to mention, FI is a spring killer so the OP may not want the mod since the high pressure placed on springs negates his position on FI, presumably for the same reason as he thinks big lift kills springs.

 

I have a 06 LS2 auto and just recently went with a BTR Stage 1 NA LS1/LS2 cam/springs along with LT headers, X pipe, trunnion upgrade and a professional tune. I gained about 60 hp and it drives like stock until you get on it. Has a slight lope and I love it. Very friendly on the street.

 

People get hung up on some variable and think it is more important than it is. I had one guy argue that gears are bad for your car because it raises the RPM on the hiway to 1900 instead of 1600 so you are wearing out the engine. Wait, what?
The original question was which cam works with stock springs. That's a money question, not a performance question, yet look at where the debate (disrespectful argument) went to; Forced induction, ported heads, FAST intakes.

I'm on here and other forums sharing factual first hand experience for 20+ years and every year, the new guy young enough to be my grand son, comes on to school me.
Guys, just sit back, these threads are NEVER followed by performance proof because if the build happens, a dyno session costs more than vavle springs.

C'mon, laugh.

 

PAC1218 is not a big spring. It is reliable for 100,000 miles and supports 1000rwhp using forced induction. I think the real issue here is lack of experience and education in engineering concepts. Sorry. There is nothing more reliable than a turbocharged engine in terms of performance applications. Nothing

Factory 2jz-gte from 1995 is 3L 700rwhp for 25 years they are still going after 250,000 miles. You need a 6L or 7L engine to keep up with that? Why is that.

Maybe try to learn from what other people are doing instead of putting on the tunnel vision and thinking that experience is worth anything

 

I never said that I think high lift kills springs. I just want to keep it mild. I usually drive 20K+ miles a year, sometimes almost double that. I put 51K on my last Challenger in less than a year and a half. I want a near-stock "normal" driving experience most of the time, just some extra oomph when I want to play a little.

 

That's true.

This thread was taken so far off topic with others speaking for you that I confused the issue. Apologies.
It sounds like you know what you want and are asking for input but honestly, people giving you input of parts they never used, including cam specs they never used, is not going to help.
Everyone has a theory........

A small cam, ported intake, and gears is a seriously fun car. The first mod I did was a gear swap.

 

Yep, I forgot to mention that at some point I'd like to do 3.42's I think. Since the Pfizer vax issues I see that I've dropped a few rungs on the ladder and so far I'm not getting back to where I was - these problems may just be permanent. That coupled with caring for my almost 87 year old mom and seeing how fast retirement is approaching has redirected my priorities.

I had asked hoping that someone would have first hand input on one or more of those cams but as you said, the thread devolved into the typical internet mess.
When I got my 07 it had a Maggie and it was just stupid to drive - it would break the tires loose at 70 on the freeway with NT05's. Pointless to not be able to hook up. The car was more fun to drive after I took it off, and I'm not looking to repeat that process.

 

Just to be clear, I suggested ported stock heads might be a better option than going for an LS3 head swap. This from post #1 in this thread:

"I've decided to get new LS3 heads, already bought an LS3 intake, and a 25% UD SFI damper. I figure if I'm going in there to change the damper I might as well go a few more bolts in and do a cam."

I haven't used the exact cam I suggested, but have had 4 different cams that are very close to what I suggested. All of those allowed for excellent manners and made good power. I'm confident enough to use it myself on my wife's SSR.

 

None of my statements were targeting you. I'm fully aware of your qualifications.
Personally, I find it funny how the nasty/rude responses on discussion forums can get. I ignore it now.
I did use a 218/224 crane cam once but it really didn't make much of an improvement back then. Having done the work myself, it was merely an education on an early LS1. I didn't think it would give the OP much help.

Remember Crane cams?

 

Ha! I think my first cam swap was done on a mid 70's Camaro. Pretty sure it was a Crane cam with specs similar to what you posted. That Camaro got a little nitrous too. Plate system that injected fuel and nitrous under the carb.

 

The stock LS1 cams depending on the year were reverse splits. SHHHH don't tell the gurus
98-2000 209/198 ls119.5 117/122
01-02 207/196 ls116 117/115
Back then a 224/228 was a monster cam...heh

I think crane went out of business 10-15 years ago.

Now computers drive cars for you.