Do you realize that the skinny pedal on the right side isn't an on/off switch? If conditions aren't right for full throttle in the lower gears, is it OK to use less than full throttle? Do you always accelerate all the way to rev limit every time you want to go a little faster? Believe it or not, with a TVS blower, you can actually accelerate fairly briskly without ever getting into boost...no matter the RPM. Or, you can have full boost at just about any RPM. Your choice. I like that option.

You don't have any extra power down low so that means that no one should need it or should want it. I kinda like to control the boost/power with my right foot....no matter the RPM. It gives you the big block stroker feel without the headaches, poor manners, and poor fuel eco that you get with big engines.

And yeah, with the right tires, you can hook it from a dig. And you know how your boost goes down after every shift, your boost would stay at peak after every shift with a TVS blower.

 

[QUOTE=old motorhead;1606331871It gives you the big block stroker feel without the headaches, poor manners, and poor fuel eco that you get [/QUOTE]
I ran a 496 without a single headache, and perfect grace.
No replacement for displacement.
And N/A will never give you the headaches and Heartbreak that a blown engine will while you're waiting for AAA to come and pick you up.

 

If my current heads/cam LS3 ever ***** the bed, I'll replace it with a 416 stroker. Love me some big cubes. My last TVS blown LS3 did 664/612 at the wheels on mild boost with perfect manners and stock like fuel eco. How does that compare with your 496?

 

I hear what you're saying, I just don't agree with you.
Do YOU realize the OP has an auto and we have these round things called torque converters and one can choose a stall speed to bring their motor up to an rpm where it makes Power, lol?
I'm not knocking your set up, I'm just replying to your previous comment.
The OP said he wants it to be fairly reliable. I'm not sure what the absolute limit is for our A6 transmissions but from what I gather 600 whp is a good measure but if he needs to be feathering it to get it to move then I guess he could shoot for that 800 whp number since the trans will only see that on the dyno anyway.
The drag strips are full of high HP dyno queens that come down and think they are going to do damage only to be taken out by a car with 1/2 the HP that's set up properly, same thing could happen on the street.
My old car (tans am) ran 9.6 on motor (441 LS7)-1.29 60 fts, that car never saw full throttle on the street for a reason, no traction.
Anyway, like I said-I'm not wanting a pissing match here, when these type discussions come up I tend to chime in with my previous experience with street driving a mid 9 sec car so my input is more toward the actual effectiveness of a combo but this is my first SC'd car and I actually just got it installed so who knows, maybe you know more than I do at this point and that's fine w me.

 

I appreciate everyone's comments here. I find it very hard to believe you don't know a car is SC in low RPMs.... you feel it or else nobody would do it. I'm all for a good classic low rpm monster but, I I don't drive like a bat out of hell on the weekends.

It will be fun to have boost, sounds cool, and yes I can hop on a highway and get into some boost. I just wanted to know how reliable it will be, as an LS3. I've heard the internals on these engines are great and take boost very well. Is that the general consensus?

 

Boost…

Old Motörhead is right about a centry supercharger with a big pulley running low boost won’t give you much down low. That’s why I prefer the ECS superchargers where they put an aggressive pulley on it and spin it hard, but put a restrictor plate in the intake to keep peak boost down. Gives a lot more torque in the low rpm’s.

As far as the LS3, they can handle power in the high 800rwhp range. There was a guy years back who ran his at the track, over 100 1/4 mile passes at about 870rwhp on stock internals without issue. He then put a YSI on it and turned it up to around 1050rwhp and made it half way through the racing season before bending all 8 stock rods. Wish I could remember his name.

 

Supercharger is always good. Pair it with a mild centrifugal cam from Cam Motion for optimal gains. Never a bad thing to upgrade heads if you have the money.

 

Yeah I don't understand that either, my car fries the tires off idle now and it didn't do that before the SC-it's even starts up better.
Maybe it's the combo of long tube headers and the centri together that kill low end power? My car has Hooker shorty headers which gives up a bit up top when compared long tubes but keeps some more down low.

The LS3 is a great motor and holds up well to boost from what I've read but I have no real world experience myself. -I have an LS2 which holds up strong as well from what I understand.
Like anything else, as long as you don't push it too far.

 

ECS did my install.

 

Wonder what trans he was using? Sounds like his car is a beast!

 

[QUOTE=Turbo6TA;1606323448]Boost ...

The positive displacement style supercharger will have much faster throttle response, but the centrifugal supercharger will make more HP on the top.


Well, I'm going to take exception to that. There's nothing "magical" that makes a pound of boost from a centrifugal blower worth more than a pound of boost from a TVS blower. They're both belt driven superchargers. And that may be the case when you're talking huge boost and huge horsepower. We're not talking about that here. Mild boost and street cars are worlds away from max effort RACECARS.

If you're limiting yourself to mild boost for a street car (let's just say under 10psi for argument's sake), and both blower systems are limited to that 10psi.....why o why would you want to limit yourself to no boost under 3000 rpm and less that 10psi until you get to your rev limit. The TVS system will have max boost available from just past idle speed on up.

The different blower systems will make similar peak power at whatever rev limit you choose. The TVS blower will make more at all points under that.

Throw meth injection into the mix and the centri has definite advantages. Most don't want to fool with that on a street car though.

 

Idk why you need boost under 3k just for discussion sake? Who would be under 3k and wanting boost at the same time? If you have a manual trans you just pick a gear that keeps you over 3k and with an auto you can get yourself a 3200 stall converter. I would think anyway. Maybe there is a little disadvantage for the manual cars in keeping that 3000+ rpm out of the gate depending on launch rpm, tires, tire pressure etc. But to be honest, there has to be "some" boost under 3000, especially w the right pulley. Less boost down low means you can run higher tire pressures out of the gate-which means more mph and more stable throughout the run, plus less hit on your parts with less power from the hit.
From what I understand the TVS blowers build up alot of underhood heat as opposed to the centri.
As far as Meth goes-from what I was told by ECS-after you set it up you just make sure the cell is full so it's there when the system asks for it, nothing complicated. I haven't done it myself yet and depending on what my car does in the 1/4 mile I may not add it but not ruling it out.
I totally agree with you about the centri making more and more at higher rpm-I noticed that right away when I saw the curve on my dyno sheet.

A pound of boost is no different in either style system but even though the TVS makes a little less up top, it makes more down low so the curve through the rpm range may be more favorable because it's making more power through more of the rpm range. Then again it builds more heat and that could rob power regardless of boost levels in a given rpm range.

Advantages and disadvantages to both.

 

Well said. I can't see too many downfalls to the Centri kit. That's probably the route I will go. Plus it sounds badass!

 

Centrifugal is easier to intercool, I think.
Centrifugal feels more centered around track MPH, dyno numbers, actual fast car stuff

The other styles of blower- instantaneous boost, lets call them roots style or screw type or Eatons or whatever-
These are more for fun than outright performance IMO.
They deliver instant torque, which is great for showing off, tire smoke, sudden feeling of acceleration,
They can give an engine that 'big block' feel.

For example here is a 4.8L with a small blower 'instant' style, a car owned by 'sloppy mechanics' one of the best examples


That is only 292 cubic inches making at 3000rpm 500lbf-ft to the tires on a dynojet!

Instant torque, IMO great for manual trans cars and small displacement engines looking for big block torque.
This is my favorite type of blower for daily drivers and street cars, because I mainly drive on the street from stoplight to stoplight and this type of blower is a clear winner in that respect, as you can't always run a vehicle out to 120-150mph on the street with a centri to really take advantage of that top end performance parameter that they do so well.

Doesn't make the car the fastest- just the most fun to putt putt around with - street shenanigans at lower MPH and stoplight situations stuff, with good tires the area under the curve for low speeds makes up for the lack of top end

 

Why don't you simply try headers, a Vararam CAI, a tune, and a 3600 Yank converter. It'll only show you about 400-430 HP on a dyno and will drive almost like stock in normal traffic. The difference will show up when you hit it from a stop or a low speed roll. To show you the difference between powerful and quickness, here's a timeslip between a 750+ HP C6 ZR1 (on the left) and my 394 HP '08 A6 with a 4000 Yank, headers, CAI, tune, and a little weight reduction. It was on a test n tune night, so neither of us cared about RT.

 

Similar ETs but a little deceiving w the ZR1’s 1.9 60’ time as it’s about 1/2 second off from ideal. That should be a bottom 10sec car but your car is set up well and that’s a nice pass you ran.

 

It's all personal preference on how you want the car to drive and how you want the car to sound.... I know it's really petty, but the chop from a cam or the whine from a blower add to the whole experience... if nobody cared about that we'd all be driving electrics (runs for cover for the incoming hate)....
With that said, I just picked up an 08 with kooks headers and an ECS kit and the street manners are on par with every stock C6 I've driven until you get on it.... for street driving and general hooliganism it's absolutely the most fun car I've ever owned.

 

The timeslip was intended to show differences between power and torque at each end of the track and the car/driver capability to control the action. Disregarding the ZR1's reaction time that allowed me to cross the 1/4 mile stripe first, it distinctly showed his inability to control the power on the launch. It's that David vs Goliath thing, where David got in the quick first shot before Goliath could swing his big hammer.

Because the OP appears to desire a feeling of something closer to the in-town 0-60 time vs triple digit highway power, the first step could be the TC, CAI, Header combo for the low end thrust. If that doesn't satisfy him, then add a centri blower, since the TC enhances that for the low end power band.

 

That's what I initially intended to do as well but doing the converter would make it hard to leave from a stop so I decided against it. Plus those mods you listed, assuming he's not installing his own converter, will add up nearly $7k (including tune) and for a couple more grand he could have his blower installed. jmo

 

I know actual experience is trumped by internet lore. I'll have one more go at this though.

Engine coolant temp wise, a Magnuson Heartbeat TVS system will run cooler than any centrifugal blower system out there. The heat exchanger is thin and air passes through it easily. If you believe the big/thick air to air heat exchanger used on centrifugal blowers is going to allow more airflow through the radiator, you're misinformed. Search heat issues on the F/I page if you don't believe me. My Heartbeat rig could idle indefinitely sitting still in high 90's outside air temps with the A/C blowing cold. ECT's wouldn't go much over 200 degrees. I know, internet lore says different. Try that sometime with your centrifugal blown rig.

Here's what Livernois Motorsports said about centri vs TVS boost. They sell, install, and tune all types of supercharger systems. They don't care what you buy.


"I just wanted to jump in here real quickly since motorhead references out dyno graph that we posted.

As he stated, we sell/install every brand supercharger that is made for these cars, and every other car we work on. We also sell/install most every turbo system. We have yet to ever see any supercharger at the same boost level on the same care make any more hp than another car with a different supercharger (if we are talking stuff below ~14psi). we have no dog in the fight, however we pride ourselves in actual, factual dyno dyno numbers. We feel this is why so many of our cars we build across every brand we work with sets records at the track, even if they don't on the dyno. Ultimately (and don't take this the wrong way) but we don't care which system makes a magical number, we are going to make certain what we sell someone is what fits their goals, wants, and budgets.

With that being said, I hope you aren't suggesting that our numbers are cold numbers on race gas for the dyno graph we attached on Camaro5. Both cars were 100% built in house with the same heads, cam, headers, exhaust, clutch, axles, etc, etc... the difference? one had a maggie at 8psi, one had a procharger at 8 psi, on 93 octane, and built within a week of each other. Both are awesome kits, they both make great power, and they are well thought out.

They both have their pros and cons. My point? There is a kit out there for everyone's needs. But to simply state that one is "better" than another in all areas is not true. Satisfied with under 700-750rwhp on an M6 Car? The 2300 will suit you just fine, as would a d1sc, or a t-trim, or... You get the picture. Talk to your shop, inform them of your desires for your car, and let them guide you along the way based off of their experiences."

So "why would anyone want boost below 3000 rpm?" Well, it just feels good. Mild boost at low RPM makes your Vette feel light at a feather. Effortless acceleration. And it won't draw unwanted attention. Feel the boost you paid for without getting your Vette impounded. Matters to me....may not to you.

What does matter to me is that boost doesn't drop after every shift with a TVS. It does with a centrifugal blower. The "A TVS is fine for a street car, but sucks at the track" arguement is bunk too. The vast majority of Vette owners never take their car to a quarter mile track. Those that do run some pretty good times with TVS blowers. Try 9's with only 660 rwhp. If memory serves, that was done with a stock torque converter. High octane fuel and no meth also. I ran 10's, but that was with a high 10 sec driver piloting a low ten sec Vette (me).

Remember, we're talking STREETCAR here, not RACECAR. If we're talking high boost RACECAR, I'd go centri in a heartbeat.