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Just rebuilt this engine due to a similar noise about 600 miles ago. Short block was measured for clearances and assembled with new bearings by a reputable machine shop. Heads were redone by WCCH. They installed BTR dual springs to support the CamMotion mild cam I installed. I put new Johnson 2116LSR lifters in it and meticulously checked pushrod lengths.
I'm so frustrated right now and I'm just looking for any thoughts on what this noise could be and what kind of diagnostics I can do to rule things out.
Yeah I was about to say, with that loud of a noise it should be fairly easy to pinpoint. I believe that’s the first failure I’ve personally seen on a brand new set of Johnson’s. And this may be just internet trash but I’ve read that quality has went down with Johnson. I hope not tho I just put a set of 2110R’s in my cammed LS3
Got the head off and disassembled the faulty lifter today. Pic below shows the internals with the broken check valve.
That disc sits under the plunger which acts as a check valve, allowing excess oil to pass up into the pushrod but preventing flow from going the opposite direction. Makes sense why that lifter wasn't holding oil pressure and could be easily compressed by hand.
Pretty upset that I had to go through this hassle with only 600 miles on these lifters. I can't really think of any reason this would occur other than a faulty part.
Would take it a step father and pull the piston check cap to get to the piston check plate, as well as check the condition of the piston sealing surface as well.
Granted the below is a Harley evo lifter, but same/same design over all.
On this one, take a good look at the piston sealing surface for its lower check plate id and od of the actual sealing surface, and can see that there were a lot of burs left behind, that caused maring on the check plate to cause the lifter to not stay pumped up as is got some miles on it.
Here is the piston sealing surface cleaned up to remove the burs left id an od of the sealing surface, the sealing plate flipped over to its clean side to not mate up the the lower piston cleaned up surface , which solve the pump up problems with the set to begin with.
Simply, for the top button seal plate to shatter, either bottom piston seal was not staying pumped up,
the lower piston got derbies between it's OD to body ID to to cause it to stick in the body, or you did not have enough rod preload on the lifter in the first place, with the bottom of rod hammering on the lifter to begin with. Hence preload on a lifter, should half the distance that the piston can be pressed down in to the body to coil bind the lower spring with no oil in the lifter to start with. On a Johnson lifter without the limiter spacer, it total travel is in the .200" range, and pre load on them should be set at half that distance with a radial cam. If very radical cam, then limiters need to be instead if lower oil pressure at lower rpms, then half that distance it will have for half that travel isntead.
So yes, could be that the top seal plate was not tempered correctly after heat treatment to cause is to shatter with nothing else wrong, but will bet very radical cam in play, no limiter rings in play, lifter not being able to stay pumped up or not enough pre load, and this cases the problem instead.
Since the lifters need to go back to be replaced, would check with them to get the next set with limiter spacers installed. This will limit the total piston travel down to about .100" in the lifter, and if you have the current pre- load set at around ..050", then all will be fine with the world.
And to add, before I install a set of lifters, I do pull them apart to give then a once over to start with, and include cleaning up the lower piston sealing surface if less than stellar to start with.
This also allows me to remove the thin oil that they are pre-asembled with, then pre pump up the lifter with the actual oil is going to see once they has been re-assemblied.
To add, with the marring on the piston sides, it does appear that it did get debris in the lifter, that may have cause the piston to stick down in the body at some point to cause the problem in the first place. I bring this up, since if you are going to use the slow leak down lifters that have the piston OD to body ID tighter, have to be dam sure that you work clean to begin with, and make sure that the oil passages are clean as well before the lifters are installed. With the tighter spec, all is take is a small piece of debris in the lifter to cause the piston to stick to the body in the first place.
Also when you do get one all apart, take a photo showing the lower piston sealing surface and it it has burs, the lower sealing plate with it side up showing the the side it was mating up against the piston seal, and the same for the upper button and its plate as well. Hence the actual working sides of the parts in the first place. Also before you dump the last of the oil out of the lifter body before you remove the lower spring, dap your finger into the oil, and run it through your fingers to see if you are finding any debris in the lifter stored oil as well.
Pretty unfortunate given these lifters are supposed to be top of the line. Good luck dealing with Johnson Lifters. They wanted me to send ALL of my lifters back for inspection before they'd send back replacements under warranty. Had to bargain with them to just send back the four pairs from the one bank as it was way more work to take the other bank apart as well. They conceded on that, but still wanted me to ship them back, do the inspection, and only then would they send out the replacements. Couldn't have that much down time so I ended up buying a single replacement pair online.
damn! I'm about to put have Johnson link bars with axle oiling lifters put in my motor. I hope I don't have any issues. damn lifters were over a grand!
LS7 tapping/knocking noise
