Hockeyclark

I am a big guy at over 6'4 and 240lbs, and the C5 is a cramped machine for me, as my brother had one, and my C3 is even worse. I couldn't imagine sitting in a solstice. My daily Toyota Matrix has more room, but then I am comparing apples to oranges here. I don't think that an AWD Vette will ever happen because that adds weight, and that is our enemy right now. I've read this whole thread and tried to understand most here, and even though it is a hit in performance, I say use a Hi-po 5.3 (or even a 5.0L) and supercharge it, make the body smaller, use (even more) lightweight components, and a bit of a bodystyle upgrade, and I think we would have a winner.

I am no mechanic by any means, and I may even be completely wrong by saying this, so please correct me if I'm wrong. I think that modern technology could get a 5.3 to 400RWHP easily, and supercharging it could give 100 more horses at least. I personally think keeping the V8 as the only engine in the Vette is the only way to go, but I really have no rationale for it, just a personal preference. If the base C7 had a 5.3 and made 375+ horses, and weighed 2900LBS, I could live with that. As long as interior room doesn't get less than my C3's. Just a personal opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

SCM_Crash

Actually, it's quite possible to make a 5.3L V8 that makes 400BHP.

I don't know if this has been brought up in this thread, but dry sump actually recovers a lot of lost power that would normally be lost due to crank slapping oil and case vacuum.

JeffInDFW

The C6 (especially the Z06) is already one of the lightest weight cars in its class. Remember when the car mags used to point out how much lighter the Porsche 911 was compared to the Vette? Not the case anymore. When designing/engineering a new Corvette, they have to use a cost to benefit to decide what to do. To take much more weight out of the car, the cost to benefit just isn't there. My prediction is....The base Corvette will come in just over 100 pounds lighter. Hell, the Porsche GT is their Carbon Fiber uber car, cost no object, and it weighs within 50 pounds of the Z06! They have to keep the car affordable to hit their target market. That cost will keep the amount of weight savings modest. IMO.

Size.....GM knows the Corvette buyer is NOT the same person that buys a Miata. When GM built a Miata fighter, they knew Americans are larger people, and made the Solstice/Sky slightly larger. The Corvette buyer will not buy the car if they can not fit in it. The interior will NOT shrink in size, and I predict that the exterior dimensions is where you will see the car get smaller. Shorter front and rear. Less "hatch" space, and less space wasted in the nose of the car.

The interior of the Chevy Equinox (2010) is incredible, and its $23,000. Go look at the interior of the freaking BUICK LaCross (2010). Stunning. GM now knows how to do interiors, and values it. The interior of the C7 will be stunning. Finally. Thank GOD.

Drivetrain.....As someone pointed out earlier, but was overlooked....The gas milage numbers you see on the window sticker are **NOT** the gas milage numbers used for CAFE. The gas milage numbers on your window stickers were altered a few years ago "to make them more realistic for the end consumer". They decreased a lot. The numbers used for CAFE are THE OLD NUMBERS. Google it, and you will see the details. Also, the 40mpg is the fleet average. So, when you sell 140,000 Chevy Cruzes that get 40mpg, and 8,000 Chevy Volts that get an average of 180mpg, and then 35,000 Vettes that get 28mpg, plus EVERY other car that GM sells, the impact of the Corvettes 28mpg average is negligable. PLUS, GM makes a healthy profit on every Corvette sold. Fritz himself said, "Corvette pays its way at GM". Why would GM ruin the Corvette with some bullshit drivetrain to try and get it to 35mpg, when the 35,000 Vettes sold each year won't matter AT ALL for its **FLEET AVERAGE**???? It would be incredibly stupid. As someone stated earlier, the Nissan GTR gets MUCH worse gas milage than the Vette, and it has a turbo V6. The 4 cylinder Solstice gets 1mpg better than the Vette with its non-direct injection engine. Ford gets 540hp with its GT500s 5.4 liter supercharged engine, and its milage is HORRIBLE. My prediction? Not a chance in hell of a 6 cylinder because it makes absolutely NO sense. The gas milage is worse in every example I can find. The weight savings is not there either. Look it up. The all aluminum LS3 is one hell of an efficient package. Take it, give it direct injection, look for other friction losses within the engine, accessories, transmission, and rearend to gain mileage. After that, leave it the hell alone. Spending a freaking fortune to design an all new supercharged 5.3 liter engine to gain WHAT? 1mpg? Maybe? 2 mpg? Maybe? Again, Ford has that engine RIGHT NOW. 5.4 liter supercharged V8. **** milage. GTRs TT V6. **** milage. Both of them WORSE than what the LS3 makes TODAY. Give the LS3 the improvements I mentioned, and see the gap widen even more! So, what do I think GM will do? I think they will shrink the V8 slightly, maybe back to 6.0 just to get some displacement out of there, and do the improvements I mentioned. Do I have inside info? Nope. But using common sense, this is what I am betting my $2 happens.

I was told a long time ago that the Corvettes V8 programs was paid for by the V8 development for Chevys trucks. Kind of like the Viper got a V10 because Dodge was already developing one for their full sized trucks. The cost is so high, a V10 would have NEVER been put in the Viper if a large part of its development wasn't already being paid for by the Truck development program. As long as full sized trucks have V8s, so will the Corvette. Uh, in MY opinion.

Hockeyclark

I hope they don't shrink the V8, but I guess I am going to have to bet my $2 that they will shrink it at least to 5.7L. I mean why not just cut off an even half liter and go back to the well with the workhorse 5.7? What Chevy has done with the 350 over the years is nothing short of artistry, and if a 5.3 can make 400 HP naturally aspirated, a 5.7 could do it with much less stress on the engine, and a lot more torque. (Even a 5.5 would be fine with me.) I agree with making transmission and gear improvements, but the engine is the heart of any vehicle, and I think it needs tended to. I agree with some previous posts that I think we might see an era where performance wanes a bit like it did in the 70's. (Okay waning a bit is an understatement for what happened back then.) But I think it is going to wane nonetheless given the hand we are dealt with the times we are in. I believe the C7 will be quite a different beast, at least that's what I'm hoping for.

Quickstrike Zo6

I agree... A V-6 would be ridiculous in the Vette.... why not make it front wheel drive also??? It will never happen.

zland

I am not expecting most people on this forum to agree with me but when I test drove an 08 Vette twice the driving feel was the determining factor that turned me off. It simply felt like it was numb & too much power steering. So IMO, if they simply changed that, it would improve the car 100%.

Regarding looks, performance etc, I think many things on the C6 are excellent. I would ceertainly stick with the performance of the LS motors & it makes no sense like many have stated to go to a turbo V6 if it is like a GTR which gets worse MPG & is not lighter.

Now that I am within 3 years of retiring it is not within my financial plan to buy a new car but if I was the Z06 would be first on my list. I ceertainly could not afford the ZR1 & the Z06 is not that much more than a GS. As you can see, performance is important to me.

SCM_Crash

I'm not saying that they SHOULD put a TT V6 in the Vette, but just because Nissan made a heavy (AWD) TTV6, doesn't mean that'd be the same result with GM. After all, the LSx motors are extremely light V8s at their displacement compared to the V8s from Audi, Nissan, Toyota, Ford, etc... Just because it's a TTV6 doesn't mean it'll be anything like the Nissan TTV6. Also, the Nissan VQ37 and VQ38 motors are extremely complicated with LOTS of heavy components (like VVEL and OHC) while most GM motors are push-rod. I imagine that GM isn't going to put the money into the R&D for a TTV6. BUT, I can imagine that if they did, it'd be very closely related to the LSx technology.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the GTR gets horrible economy because it's AWD, and they didn't really work to make the car light-weight. Also, it's a 4 seater vehicle. I'd bet that if you took that same motor setup and somehow put it in a Vette keeping it RWD with similar gearing as the T56, it would get pretty good economy. Especially on the freeway.

A TTV6 would be cool, but not necessarily in the Vette. IF GM decided to put a TTV6 in the Vette (no matter how unlikely that is) I'd still probably buy one. Twin turbo cars have a lot of potential.

Tx-Spike

I've owned three Vettes in my lifetime: A 1992, purchased used and 1999, 2008 models each purchased new. I bought the '92 to hold me over until I could afford a new one and I drove the '99 model until the proverbial wheels fell off (ended up putting over 140K miles on that one) and last year I bought the '08. From 92 to 99, what changed on the Vette? Well, obviously, the body style but importantly, for me, the performance. What changed from '99 to '08? Again, obviously the body style but the performance improved substantially. What will motivate me to buy my next Vette? The PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENTS! If there are no performance improvements or, worse, there is performance degradation, GM won't be seeing my money.

I WILL have my cake and eat it too or I won't be having cake; I'll have blueberry pie or cherry cobbler. I don't give a damn about improvements in fuel economy; if the other cars in GM's fleet can't make up for a few extra MPG on the Vette, then their own incompetence will lead me to another vendor. Anyway, how many people buy Vettes because they want "economy"? If you're that worried about the environment or your pocket book there are many excellent 4-bangers from which to choose that are considerably cheaper and get far better gas mileage than a Vette.

I'm OK with turbos; I'm OK with superchargers. Sure I love a thumpin' V8, but if GM can make me a turbocharged/supercharged V6 and slap it in a Vette that runs faster than the one I have now, I'll buy it. But, give me a pathetic flashback to the '70's, and I'll run with my money strait into the arms of another dealer. Are you listening GM?

andrewdonald1

I was going to write that I thought the C7 would be evolutionary not revolutionary to the C6: However, I just don't have a good handle on GM's current corporate culture to understand how hungry they really are.

They have the talent to kick ***, but I haven't seen a history yet to believe they are truly making a corporate mission change.

That being said: do not get rid of the V8, it is the icon of what it means to drive American.
If in the future it cannot compete in the market place, then I am all for a change.
Most mid to high end luxury cars (other than American) moved to v8's - why? Because it is a status symbol.

Regarding my dreams of the C7:
Keep sticker price the same, kick *** looks, keep it mechanically simple & reliable, slightly better power/weight ratio, improve MPG by at least 20%.
I believe the MPG is critical, we must start living in reality... gas prices are going to rise.
People will not drive them if it costs an arm and a leg to fill the tank with fuel.
If people don't drive them, future sales will wither and die.
Unfortunately I don't believe going diesel is the answer: you get the improvement in MPG, but it not longer makes up for the premium fuel costs & up front mechanical costs like it used to around Y2K.

Some how we need to figure out how to recycle all of the lost energy in the braking system without the major weight impact of a hybrid system.
I would be fine with a additional hybrid system supplementing the current Vette mechanical system as long as there was no performance impact (weight/handling/acceleration). But I would never want to loose the essence of the V8 mechanical system.

JerriVette

autoblog say the next corvette will have a 5.5 liter v8 engine

Corvette Racing boss Doug Fehan confirms new 5.5L V8 for Sebring debut
by Sam Abuelsamid (RSS feed) on Jan 2nd, 2010 at 7:55PM



Corvette C6.R GT2 - Click above for high-res image gallery

Back in August when General Motors introduced the all-new GT2 class Corvette C6.R, it ran downsized 6.0-liter version of the 7.0-liter V8 from the long-dominant GT1 car. At the launch, Corvette Racing program manager Doug Fehan told us the 6.0-liter was just an interim engine. With revised GT rules on tap for 2010, GM was already planning a brand-new engine for its race Vette.

Unlike the 6.0/7.0, which is a ground-up race engine that only shares basic architectural dimensions with the production small block, the 2010 C6.R's V8 is a new 5.5-liter unit that will indeed be derived from the production engine found in roadgoing Corvettes. In fact, the 5.5-liter race engine will be built at GM's Performance Build Center alongside ZR1 and Z06 V8s.

Fehan has confirmed that the 5.5 is running on the dyno and will make its race debut at the 12 Hours of Sebring in March. We don't have any additional details on the new engine yet, although we were told earlier that it is based on the next-generation production small-block, which we expect to see in the Corvette soon.

SCM_Crash

I nominate this post the best post of the thread.

andrewdonald1

Isn't this the thinking that got the American car manufactures in the current position they are in?
I don't disagree with you, but I also want low operational costs.

ivanjo11

What would be interesting to see is how GM improves the C7 handling...

They have a decision to make with the tires, will they go with the improve Michelins likes the ones in the ZR-1? Or will they ask Goodyear to build a new and better tire for the C7?

Chassis rigidity should go up like most of the new cars that come out so that will help.

weight distribution is also very important what would be their target number? 50/50,48/52,51/49?

And their biggest challenge is how will the improve the C7 putting the power down coming out of corners?

Or how will they reduce the fishtailing or power oversteer?

Will the go with an electronic differential like the one that Ferrari (430,458) uses?

It should be a interesting debate...

quimbysr

The Mustang went "downhill" from where? The original Mustang was meant to be a "Secretary's Car", sporty, with an efficient I6 and automatic transmission. Sure, it was a good, light platform to build V8 powered performance cars; and those cars are the "face" of the franchise, but the 4 or 6 was always the volume seller. When it really comes down to it, the Mustang is meant to be both practical and fun in varying proportions (think about it, even the 540HP GT500 KR has a back seat).

That said, I think the car badged "Corvette" should probably stay a V8 car unless GM makes the decision that their highest performing engine will not longer be based on V8 architecture (unlikely as long as there is still demand for V8 trucks). What they could do, though, is to clearly market a smaller, lighter, less powerful 2-seater as a budget-minded companion to the Corvette. This may be a good direction for a Kappa platform Chevrolet at first since there will be no more Saturns and Ponchos; then I would like to see it evolve into something that has a certain amount of component sharing and conspicuous technology transfer with the Corvette. A car like that would attract youth into the segment and point them towards the "step up" to a Corvette when they are in a position to do so.

Alton.cedric

WHO CARES ITS ALREADY messing up ur liver why care about the extra calories.

z edge

drunk posting is fun

LCS51

+2 on the 5.5 liter motor. They're testing it out now with the c6r's, so i'd look for that in a smaller lighter vette to keep the performance specs happy

madmax13

That's just a destroked LS7. We're going to be seeing a Gen V engine.

SCM_Crash

Hopefully a Gen V with direct injection.