The True Mid-Engine Corvette?
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Navigator
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The True Mid-Engine Corvette?
I have read all the post and talk about the mid-engine C-7,so will the C-7 be the true mid-engine Corvette or will the C-8 be the one?All we need is for Ford to produce the the future GTmid-engine agin,At the large meeting Mark Russe mention that there would be a all new Corvette ,so will they produce it or this is all TALK?I would like to see a true mid-engine and not an front engine mid-engine as they call it.
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
I appreciate the mid-engine layout with the driver in front of the power plant, but Chevy probably will never do it.
Zora laid it out on several occasions, and if it wasn't done way back then, it's not going to happen today.
The current layout as bigleman describes is fine. Just keep refining the marque.
Zora laid it out on several occasions, and if it wasn't done way back then, it's not going to happen today.
The current layout as bigleman describes is fine. Just keep refining the marque.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,559
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From: North Dallas 40 TX
I have read all the post and talk about the mid-engine C-7,so will the C-7 be the true mid-engine Corvette or will the C-8 be the one?All we need is for Ford to produce the the future GTmid-engine agin,At the large meeting Mark Russe mention that there would be a all new Corvette ,so will they produce it or this is all TALK?I would like to see a true mid-engine and not an front engine mid-engine as they call it.
Would you prefer to have a 600 pound block of metal between you and whatever you are driving head-on into, or to be sandwiched between a 600 pound block of metal and whatever you are driving head-on into?
Do you want the hottest part of your engine right next to the fuel tank or several feet away in a crash?
I have had both and just try not to think about those things, there are adavantages to both configurations. Engine forward of the cockpit is probably preferable for the street, and rear of the cockpit preferable for the track when you have less head-on collisions.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2011
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If GM really wants a mid-engine to compete with the Euro exotics out there, they should make a new brand, not potentially damage an existing one.
The Corvette brand has too much heritage behind it, and a huge following to risk for the sake of perception they need to compete with anyone else.
GM should work on improving the existing like, which frankly doesn't need much that they haven't worked out, or been told to sort.
Interior for sure, and maybe a DSG style gearbox...thats it.
A new, mid-engine, 3-4ltr V6 twin-turbo coupe would bring in new revenue, and potentially show that GM can stand back and take a look at whats needed to jump ahead with the big global players out there.
It wouldn't damage the existing cash flow from the vette like, as they're two different types of customers, except those that want both.
Just my 2c
The Corvette brand has too much heritage behind it, and a huge following to risk for the sake of perception they need to compete with anyone else.
GM should work on improving the existing like, which frankly doesn't need much that they haven't worked out, or been told to sort.
Interior for sure, and maybe a DSG style gearbox...thats it.
A new, mid-engine, 3-4ltr V6 twin-turbo coupe would bring in new revenue, and potentially show that GM can stand back and take a look at whats needed to jump ahead with the big global players out there.
It wouldn't damage the existing cash flow from the vette like, as they're two different types of customers, except those that want both.
Just my 2c
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,636
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We can put rumors of a mid-engined C7 to rest. It appears to be out at this stage of Corvette development.
"Juechter dismisses the speculation about a switch to a mid-engine layout by saying Corvettes have always been practical, and the switch away from a front-engine, rear-wheel-drive layout would significantly dent that; [Corvette spokesman] Caldwell, meanwhile, is happy to speculate that the engineers may be approaching the dynamic limits of this set-up."
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=23703
Agreed. Keep the engine in front for the Corvette. A mid-engined layout would be better for Cadillac, IMO.
Regarding safety, a front engine isn't necessarily better in a crash. Engine intrusion into the passenger compartment is a very real issue in frontal accidents. With more crush space in front, manufacturers may have more freedom in controlling deformation.
"Juechter dismisses the speculation about a switch to a mid-engine layout by saying Corvettes have always been practical, and the switch away from a front-engine, rear-wheel-drive layout would significantly dent that; [Corvette spokesman] Caldwell, meanwhile, is happy to speculate that the engineers may be approaching the dynamic limits of this set-up."
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=23703
Regarding safety, a front engine isn't necessarily better in a crash. Engine intrusion into the passenger compartment is a very real issue in frontal accidents. With more crush space in front, manufacturers may have more freedom in controlling deformation.
Drifting
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 2
From: The Motor City
The whole idea (and rumors) of a mid-engined C7 needs to stop!
C7 is going to have the same layout to the C6! That is, a front engine with a rear transaxle. Period.
The reason we haven't seen a mid-engined Corvette has nothing to do with crash/occupant safety or with development/production costs. Mid-engined cars are nothing new, for GM or otherwise; it takes no more development time or production cost to produce a mid-engined sports car vs. a front-engined sports car.
We will not see a mid-engined Corvette until the standard power plant gets to the 700bhp mark. Above the 700bhp mark, the traditional front engine/rear drive layout becomes very difficult to control, even with the latest "electronic interventions". When you consider GM sells the Corvette to the general public, that's something they will not risk; that's when we'll see the move to a mid-engine layout.
And when you figure we're a long way off from seeing a 700bhp base engine in the Corvette, I wouldn't hold my breath in seeing a mid-engined 'Vette any time soon.
C7 is going to have the same layout to the C6! That is, a front engine with a rear transaxle. Period.
The reason we haven't seen a mid-engined Corvette has nothing to do with crash/occupant safety or with development/production costs. Mid-engined cars are nothing new, for GM or otherwise; it takes no more development time or production cost to produce a mid-engined sports car vs. a front-engined sports car.
We will not see a mid-engined Corvette until the standard power plant gets to the 700bhp mark. Above the 700bhp mark, the traditional front engine/rear drive layout becomes very difficult to control, even with the latest "electronic interventions". When you consider GM sells the Corvette to the general public, that's something they will not risk; that's when we'll see the move to a mid-engine layout.
And when you figure we're a long way off from seeing a 700bhp base engine in the Corvette, I wouldn't hold my breath in seeing a mid-engined 'Vette any time soon.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,447
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From: Maryville TN
St. Jude Donor '06-13,'16-'17, '19
On the track? They just beat those "Euro" super cars at Le Mans today in two classes.
I like the Corvette just like it is! I realize that the Vettes that won Le Mans today are nothing like the real Vettes you and I own, but they WERE front engine rear wheel drive machines.
Tom
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,559
Likes: 4,501
From: North Dallas 40 TX
We can put rumors of a mid-engined C7 to rest. It appears to be out at this stage of Corvette development.
"Juechter dismisses the speculation about a switch to a mid-engine layout by saying Corvettes have always been practical, and the switch away from a front-engine, rear-wheel-drive layout would significantly dent that; [Corvette spokesman] Caldwell, meanwhile, is happy to speculate that the engineers may be approaching the dynamic limits of this set-up."
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=23703
Agreed. Keep the engine in front for the Corvette. A mid-engined layout would be better for Cadillac, IMO.
Regarding safety, a front engine isn't necessarily better in a crash. Engine intrusion into the passenger compartment is a very real issue in frontal accidents. With more crush space in front, manufacturers may have more freedom in controlling deformation.
"Juechter dismisses the speculation about a switch to a mid-engine layout by saying Corvettes have always been practical, and the switch away from a front-engine, rear-wheel-drive layout would significantly dent that; [Corvette spokesman] Caldwell, meanwhile, is happy to speculate that the engineers may be approaching the dynamic limits of this set-up."
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=23703
Agreed. Keep the engine in front for the Corvette. A mid-engined layout would be better for Cadillac, IMO.
Regarding safety, a front engine isn't necessarily better in a crash. Engine intrusion into the passenger compartment is a very real issue in frontal accidents. With more crush space in front, manufacturers may have more freedom in controlling deformation.
In Europe the crash standrs may favor engines mounted behind the cockpit, mostly due to pedestrian standards.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2011
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
And who made you Forum God? People enjoy the debate and conjecture.
While I agree with your statement, I would never think to hammer it at others on here in the bold font manner you have.
And your engineering degree on this is from where?
And you are also the GM Executive in charge of this decision?
I'm not trying to start an argument, but don't lay out your presentation as though you are absolutely correct and lay out the exact reasons that you are right.
GM can build anything they want to, and it has nothing to do with safety or power produced or not produced. I don't know exactly why they have not done so, nor do you. Brand image, as others have stated before, may have a big part in that.
The C7 will be whatever it is, and until it is introduced it is fun to speculate.
Regards.
The reason we haven't seen a mid-engined Corvette has nothing to do with crash/occupant safety or with development/production costs. Mid-engined cars are nothing new, for GM or otherwise; it takes no more development time or production cost to produce a mid-engined sports car vs. a front-engined sports car..
I'm not trying to start an argument, but don't lay out your presentation as though you are absolutely correct and lay out the exact reasons that you are right.
GM can build anything they want to, and it has nothing to do with safety or power produced or not produced. I don't know exactly why they have not done so, nor do you. Brand image, as others have stated before, may have a big part in that.
The C7 will be whatever it is, and until it is introduced it is fun to speculate.
Regards.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 128
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Anyone with knowledge of a traction control system can show you how to handle 700HP.
Race Logic's Traction Control System are one of the best out there, and its very easy for any knowledgeable tuner to get installed and running.
Horsepower also has nothing to do with engine layout, its mix of style for the car, balance, and pedigree of the brand.
A mild tune on a ZR1 likely has your 700HP, and that doesn't look like its uncontrollable death-trap?
And as much as it doesn't take more production time, it does take re-tooling, redesigning, re-training etc etc, that all come into play. Its not like they'll just turn the body shop around and start putting the shell on backwards.
As there has been talk of GM potentially moving to small capacity turbo engines for future editions, I've been thinking on how to do that myself, and have the basic plans on using a twin turbo 3litre straight 6, Front Engine 4WD setup in a C6. I know that engines going to be 700HP, mainly rear-wheel drive until it looses traction, then moves power to the front.
Race Logic's Traction Control System are one of the best out there, and its very easy for any knowledgeable tuner to get installed and running.
Horsepower also has nothing to do with engine layout, its mix of style for the car, balance, and pedigree of the brand.
A mild tune on a ZR1 likely has your 700HP, and that doesn't look like its uncontrollable death-trap?
And as much as it doesn't take more production time, it does take re-tooling, redesigning, re-training etc etc, that all come into play. Its not like they'll just turn the body shop around and start putting the shell on backwards.
As there has been talk of GM potentially moving to small capacity turbo engines for future editions, I've been thinking on how to do that myself, and have the basic plans on using a twin turbo 3litre straight 6, Front Engine 4WD setup in a C6. I know that engines going to be 700HP, mainly rear-wheel drive until it looses traction, then moves power to the front.
Last edited by SteveRiellyNZ; Jun 12, 2011 at 07:57 PM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,581
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From: The Motor City
The information I've laid out here came directly from a former GM executive whom I was speaking with.
You don't have to believe me if you don't want to. I'm just passing on real information, not something to start rumors or debate.
However, if you'd like to believe that the C7 might be a mid-engined car (despite the fact the final design is complete and production tooling data is being prepared as I write this) then you go right ahead.
You don't have to believe me if you don't want to. I'm just passing on real information, not something to start rumors or debate.
However, if you'd like to believe that the C7 might be a mid-engined car (despite the fact the final design is complete and production tooling data is being prepared as I write this) then you go right ahead.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2011
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
The information I've laid out here came directly from a former GM executive whom I was speaking with.
However, if you'd like to believe that the C7 might be a mid-engined car (despite the fact the final design is complete and production tooling data is being prepared as I write this) then you go right ahead.
However, if you'd like to believe that the C7 might be a mid-engined car (despite the fact the final design is complete and production tooling data is being prepared as I write this) then you go right ahead.
Again, GM CAN build one, they just have never opted to and I don't expect they will.
Regards.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,526
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From: Los Angeles California
As usual, I'm with RacerX on this. The Vette is already a true mid-engine since the engine is between the axles. And there's no reason to fix what's not broken. There's a million reasons to stay behind the motor and only a couple superficial reasons to sit in front of it.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 0
From: Chapel Hill NC
check this one
http://corvidtec.com/
Look at the black car in the "Styling and Surfacing" section. It shows Compuware as a sponsor, the Vett cross flags on the nose and the number 4 on the side. Looks like mid-rear to me.
Interesting, no?
IMO, not the C7 but an exercise on behalf of someone. The question is who?
Maybe Pratt & Miller
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/pratt...lmp1-corvette/
Look at the black car in the "Styling and Surfacing" section. It shows Compuware as a sponsor, the Vett cross flags on the nose and the number 4 on the side. Looks like mid-rear to me.
Interesting, no?
IMO, not the C7 but an exercise on behalf of someone. The question is who?
Maybe Pratt & Miller
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/pratt...lmp1-corvette/
Team Owner
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,480
Likes: 9
From: East Meadow NY
St. Jude Donor '12
Say whay you want it IS a true mid-engine. They are plenty of safety reasons to place the engine in front of the passengers.
Would you prefer to have a 600 pound block of metal between you and whatever you are driving head-on into, or to be sandwiched between a 600 pound block of metal and whatever you are driving head-on into?
Do you want the hottest part of your engine right next to the fuel tank or several feet away in a crash?
I have had both and just try not to think about those things, there are adavantages to both configurations. Engine forward of the cockpit is probably preferable for the street, and rear of the cockpit preferable for the track when you have less head-on collisions.
Would you prefer to have a 600 pound block of metal between you and whatever you are driving head-on into, or to be sandwiched between a 600 pound block of metal and whatever you are driving head-on into?
Do you want the hottest part of your engine right next to the fuel tank or several feet away in a crash?
I have had both and just try not to think about those things, there are adavantages to both configurations. Engine forward of the cockpit is probably preferable for the street, and rear of the cockpit preferable for the track when you have less head-on collisions.