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Old Aug 7, 2012 | 12:39 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Notch
Many people don't believe this is true in terms of subjective assessments.
Well many people are how should I put it... Morons.

Cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to mod, easier to work on, better fuel economy, more interior room, more luggage room, faster in a straight line, faster on a road course, etc, etc, etc.
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Old Aug 7, 2012 | 12:43 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by JustinStrife
Well many people are how should I put it... Morons.

Cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to mod, easier to work on, better fuel economy, more interior room, more luggage room, faster in a straight line, faster on a road course, etc, etc, etc.
Have you driven a Ferrari 430 or 458??
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Old Aug 7, 2012 | 01:02 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by JustinStrife
Cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to mod
For many people the target car is not driven by a search for "cheaper".

Originally Posted by JustinStrife
...faster in a straight line, faster on a road course, etc, etc, etc.
The majority of sports car owners do not take their cars to the track or street race, so "faster" is immaterial.
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Old Aug 7, 2012 | 01:15 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by JustinStrife
Well many people are how should I put it... Morons.

Cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to mod, easier to work on, better fuel economy, more interior room, more luggage room, faster in a straight line, faster on a road course, etc, etc, etc.
If your referring to ALMS, yes, this is sometimes the case, but ALMS is so regulated you cant just compare two cars like apples to oranges. For road cars, yes, the corvette even beat out the 458 at MLS raceway. Mind you, tracks in America have a markedly greater advantage for FM cars on the whole. The thing is, the vette is subjectively worse in almost all other enviornments; it cannot change direction quickly enough in a quick turn, and when trail braking into tight turns, the rear is unweighted and power on exit is impossible without advance traction control systems, which are boring anyway.

Watch this video interview with Ralph Gilles, hes a seasoned race and he details the finesse that a mid-engine car has over even his own baby; the viper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpBQy5umKr8

As for maintenance, yes it is more difficult, but cry me a river we live in a day in age where spark plugs don't need to be changed for 100k miles. The c6 was justifiably front engine, as the envelope could really be pushed farther, but now, the rear tires on the z06/zr1 are even wider than the race car. The viper now uses 296, 355s! Unforgivable.

Perhaps this argument wouldn't be so persistent if the market for a 50k, mid-engine v8 sports car was filled.
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Old Aug 7, 2012 | 01:41 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Almost There
Perhaps this argument wouldn't be so persistent if the market for a 50k, mid-engine v8 sports car was filled.
Yes indeed.
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Old Aug 7, 2012 | 01:55 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Notch
It appears that you are associating "supercar" with a different trait than I am; you "price" and me "performance" (both objective and subjective performance). A mid-engine Vette does not have to be supercar priced.
I agree a mid-engined Vette will not be priced like a supercar. Just that that was the train of thought we were heading down when the 960 (458 competitor) was introduced into this discussion, at which point I said "Another supercar aimed at the superwealthy..." etc.
It's probably for another discussion but IMO a supercar envelops more than price or performance. The simple fact is, while the Corvette is a sports car, it is not as singularly obsessive to that end as something like a Lotus or Caterham. GM does market it on its luxury, premium aspects, and people have been spec'ing them up well beyond base levels with items that are not performance-related.


As for luggage space, the Corvette has 22 cu ft. The Cayman and MP4-12C are much smaller, at 14 and 7. The McLaren has a handy parcel shelf, but loading bags into is more awkward as the orifice (framed by the seat that must be pushed forward, B-pillar, and ceiling) is much smaller than the open hatch glass of the Corvette. Both cars force you to split large items into two (sometimes impossible), which you don't have to do with the Corvette.
The Evora seems to have good space efficiency, but loading items into the back seats pose the same awkwardness as the McLaren. Its rear trunk, at only 6 cu ft, is tiny compared to the Corvette's. And it's a tighter fit up front for the driver. Again, the typical triangulation of the footwell area, mandated by the position of the front wheels (and those are only 225-size tires). The deadpedal (if indeed there is one) seems to be a half-sliver of what a proper deadpedal should be:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zELJJFZBLl...00339413_l.jpg

Indeed, in Lotus's own press material, it indicates the driver's left foot at rest is located some inches rearward than his right.

Said Motor Trend of the Evora in its Best Driver's Car comparo:
"One thing the best driver's car cannot and will not have is an awkward seating position. Well, guess what? In the Lotus, the brake pedal is where you'd expect the throttle to be; the gas pedal's under the center console; and the clutch pedal is not only too far to the middle, but there's absolutely no room to the left of it. Which means you're constantly riding the clutch."

C&D, Autocar, TopGear, and other publications have noted similar comments about the offset pedals.

The McLaren also has a tiny footbox area. What happens to the deadpedal when a clutch pedal is fitted?
http://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/site...p4-12c-1_0.jpg
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Old Aug 7, 2012 | 08:53 AM
  #147  
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Guibo - I've already opined about the luggage area and leg room.
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