New c4 info??
08-19-2012, 11:30 AM
#41
08-19-2012, 11:31 AM
#42
Burning Brakes
Re: Corvette Insider Comments
Yeah, one can always pooh-pooh these comments, as they are always from anonymous sources. NOBODY in his/her right mind from GM would ever consent to being quoted on their C7 comments, as they would be instantly canned. But my .02 is that I will go out on a limb and say that these comments sound accurate:
1. I’ve said all along that, in order for the C7 to be successful (i.e. giving C6 owners reasons to move up), that the base C7 performance must be equal to or better than that of the C6 Z06. Remember, this was accomplished last time, where the base C6 performance was equal to the performance of the C5 Z06.
2. I love the 2+2 option, giving the C7 wider appeal for guys with small children. It has worked for Porsche, so why not?
3. Recaro Seats. Enough said.
4. $60-70k price: Ouch, but technology and performance cost big $$, and one must pay to play. If you have any intention of owning a new Corvette in the low $40’s, you’d better pick up a 2013 in the next six months! With the emphasis on performance (base C7 with Recaro, 500 + HP), one can see how the Corvette, oops, Stingray will appeal more to younger professionals vs. the 50 and over crowd. (Remember, this is what Chevrolet promised!)
5. Elimination of Grand Sport & Z06: This makes sense from a production standpoint to reduce cost. The formula looks to be 1 Killer Base C7 + I Killer ZR1 = C7 Success. Chevrolet has shown they can compete with Porsche, Viper, GTR. It looks like the only reason to go Ferrari or Lambo may be exclusivity!
Rickman
1. I’ve said all along that, in order for the C7 to be successful (i.e. giving C6 owners reasons to move up), that the base C7 performance must be equal to or better than that of the C6 Z06. Remember, this was accomplished last time, where the base C6 performance was equal to the performance of the C5 Z06.
2. I love the 2+2 option, giving the C7 wider appeal for guys with small children. It has worked for Porsche, so why not?
3. Recaro Seats. Enough said.
4. $60-70k price: Ouch, but technology and performance cost big $$, and one must pay to play. If you have any intention of owning a new Corvette in the low $40’s, you’d better pick up a 2013 in the next six months! With the emphasis on performance (base C7 with Recaro, 500 + HP), one can see how the Corvette, oops, Stingray will appeal more to younger professionals vs. the 50 and over crowd. (Remember, this is what Chevrolet promised!)
5. Elimination of Grand Sport & Z06: This makes sense from a production standpoint to reduce cost. The formula looks to be 1 Killer Base C7 + I Killer ZR1 = C7 Success. Chevrolet has shown they can compete with Porsche, Viper, GTR. It looks like the only reason to go Ferrari or Lambo may be exclusivity!
Rickman
08-19-2012, 12:33 PM
#43
Team Owner
Yes, I read the same thing many years ago. Let's not forget that the 911 is a much different configuration and is effectively a "cab forward" design. The Corvette is not. Rear seats in a Corvette would have to sit directly over the rear differential unless there is a major platform redesign, which I will bet lots of money there is not.
08-19-2012, 12:33 PM
#44
Team Owner
08-19-2012, 12:45 PM
#45
Team Owner
Yeah, one can always pooh-pooh these comments, as they are always from anonymous sources. NOBODY in his/her right mind from GM would ever consent to being quoted on their C7 comments, as they would be instantly canned. But my .02 is that I will go out on a limb and say that these comments sound accurate:
1. I’ve said all along that, in order for the C7 to be successful (i.e. giving C6 owners reasons to move up), that the base C7 performance must be equal to or better than that of the C6 Z06. Remember, this was accomplished last time, where the base C6 performance was equal to the performance of the C5 Z06.
2. I love the 2+2 option, giving the C7 wider appeal for guys with small children. It has worked for Porsche, so why not?
3. Recaro Seats. Enough said.
4. $60-70k price: Ouch, but technology and performance cost big $$, and one must pay to play. If you have any intention of owning a new Corvette in the low $40’s, you’d better pick up a 2013 in the next six months! With the emphasis on performance (base C7 with Recaro, 500 + HP), one can see how the Corvette, oops, Stingray will appeal more to younger professionals vs. the 50 and over crowd. (Remember, this is what Chevrolet promised!)
5. Elimination of Grand Sport & Z06: This makes sense from a production standpoint to reduce cost. The formula looks to be 1 Killer Base C7 + I Killer ZR1 = C7 Success. Chevrolet has shown they can compete with Porsche, Viper, GTR. It looks like the only reason to go Ferrari or Lambo may be exclusivity!
Rickman
1. I’ve said all along that, in order for the C7 to be successful (i.e. giving C6 owners reasons to move up), that the base C7 performance must be equal to or better than that of the C6 Z06. Remember, this was accomplished last time, where the base C6 performance was equal to the performance of the C5 Z06.
2. I love the 2+2 option, giving the C7 wider appeal for guys with small children. It has worked for Porsche, so why not?
3. Recaro Seats. Enough said.
4. $60-70k price: Ouch, but technology and performance cost big $$, and one must pay to play. If you have any intention of owning a new Corvette in the low $40’s, you’d better pick up a 2013 in the next six months! With the emphasis on performance (base C7 with Recaro, 500 + HP), one can see how the Corvette, oops, Stingray will appeal more to younger professionals vs. the 50 and over crowd. (Remember, this is what Chevrolet promised!)
5. Elimination of Grand Sport & Z06: This makes sense from a production standpoint to reduce cost. The formula looks to be 1 Killer Base C7 + I Killer ZR1 = C7 Success. Chevrolet has shown they can compete with Porsche, Viper, GTR. It looks like the only reason to go Ferrari or Lambo may be exclusivity!
Rickman
This goes back to the C1 where the base 250HP of the 1963 C2 was less then the 360 Hp of the outgoing 1962 Fuelie. Same for the C2 vs the C3. The base 300 HP of the new 1968 C3 was less then the 435 HP of the outgoing 1967 427.
Not everyone is interested in having mega-horsepower(or paying for it), so you offer the base car with a lower (and cheaper) horsepower engine, and then offer a higher horsepower option for those who desire higher horsepower and are willing to pay for it.
You don't burden the base car with the higher costs of having the mega horsepower engine. If you do, you will price a very large segment of the customer base right out of the car.
08-19-2012, 01:01 PM
#46
The C5 was very successful and the base 345 HP of the 97 C5 was less then the horsepower(405) of the C4 ZR-1.
This goes back to the C1 where the base 250HP of the 1963 C2 was less then the 360 Hp of the outgoing 1962 Fuelie. Same for the C2 vs the C3. The base 300 HP of the new 1968 C3 was less then the 435 HP of the outgoing 1967 427.
Not everyone is interested in having mega-horsepower(or paying for it), so you offer the base car with a lower (and cheaper) horsepower engine, and then offer a higher horsepower option for those who desire higher horsepower and are willing to pay for it.
You don't burden the base car with the higher costs of having the mega horsepower engine. If you do, you will price a very large segment of the customer base right out of the car.
This goes back to the C1 where the base 250HP of the 1963 C2 was less then the 360 Hp of the outgoing 1962 Fuelie. Same for the C2 vs the C3. The base 300 HP of the new 1968 C3 was less then the 435 HP of the outgoing 1967 427.
Not everyone is interested in having mega-horsepower(or paying for it), so you offer the base car with a lower (and cheaper) horsepower engine, and then offer a higher horsepower option for those who desire higher horsepower and are willing to pay for it.
You don't burden the base car with the higher costs of having the mega horsepower engine. If you do, you will price a very large segment of the customer base right out of the car.
Personally, I believe the corvette team targeted the GT-R when setting a goal for hp output and tech features of the base C7. Current 2013 GTR makes 545hp. It will be a huge dissapointment, at least for me, if the C7 does not at least match the C6 ZO6 in hp output.
Last edited by Paulchristian; 08-19-2012 at 01:11 PM.
08-19-2012, 01:46 PM
#47
Drifting
1. I’ve said all along that, in order for the C7 to be successful (i.e. giving C6 owners reasons to move up), that the base C7 performance must be equal to or better than that of the C6 Z06. Remember, this was accomplished last time, where the base C6 performance was equal to the performance of the C5 Z06.
I agree.
2. I love the 2+2 option, giving the C7 wider appeal for guys with small children. It has worked for Porsche, so why not?
I don't know about that.
3. Recaro Seats. Enough said.
I agree.
4. $60-70k price: Ouch, but technology and performance cost big $$, and one must pay to play. If you have any intention of owning a new Corvette in the low $40’s, you’d better pick up a 2013 in the next six months! With the emphasis on performance (base C7 with Recaro, 500 + HP), one can see how the Corvette, oops, Stingray will appeal more to younger professionals vs. the 50 and over crowd. (Remember, this is what Chevrolet promised!)
Price should be lower than that (starting price, 52000), Stingray name?
5. Elimination of Grand Sport & Z06: This makes sense from a production standpoint to reduce cost. The formula looks to be 1 Killer Base C7 + I Killer ZR1 = C7 Success. Chevrolet has shown they can compete with Porsche, Viper, GTR. It looks like the only reason to go Ferrari or Lambo may be exclusivity!
I agree.
Rickman
08-19-2012, 02:50 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
The fact the OP hasn't returned raises questions. I think all that is written is certainly plausible shy of a couple statements. Everyone denied the Jelopnik photo for how long though, until the bumper video confirmed it.
Everything makes sense for the most part.
Everything makes sense for the most part.
08-19-2012, 02:52 PM
#49
Instructor
Member Since: Sep 2010
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List on the current 2013 vette is 50,000, grand sport 56,000. I do not see the C7 base starting at 60,000.
Following Porsche lead, keep the base low (for a vette), and option the heck out it for them to make $$.
On my 08 BMW I have every performance option available at the time, and not one luxury item.
I would do the same with the C7. example performance exhaust, ssk, tires, but no to nav, bose, heated seats etc.
Let us build the car we want.
Following Porsche lead, keep the base low (for a vette), and option the heck out it for them to make $$.
On my 08 BMW I have every performance option available at the time, and not one luxury item.
I would do the same with the C7. example performance exhaust, ssk, tires, but no to nav, bose, heated seats etc.
Let us build the car we want.
08-19-2012, 03:05 PM
#50
Melting Slicks
As writers of fiction (and also politicians) have long known: put a tidbit or two of truth in something and many will believe the whole story. Michael Crichton was a master of this in creating believable fiction.
I imagine there may be a tidbit or two of truth in this speculation (i.e. the model will still be named Corvette) but the only 2 + 2 seats that will fit in there would be just about large enough for a kitten
Don't forget the tremendous amount of design (and resulting safety testing/certification) needed for a second row of seats not to mention the complete change in product image.
How about the next rumor is the Corvette will also have a class III towing package since they are also missing the market for those who want to tow their boat down the Tail of the Dragon on the way to Fontana lake.
I imagine there may be a tidbit or two of truth in this speculation (i.e. the model will still be named Corvette) but the only 2 + 2 seats that will fit in there would be just about large enough for a kitten
Don't forget the tremendous amount of design (and resulting safety testing/certification) needed for a second row of seats not to mention the complete change in product image. How about the next rumor is the Corvette will also have a class III towing package since they are also missing the market for those who want to tow their boat down the Tail of the Dragon on the way to Fontana lake.
08-19-2012, 04:16 PM
#51
Team Owner
Consider the base price of a Nissan GT-R nowadays...about $90k. With all the talked about tech and quality improvements, you have to expect a price increase for the C7. There is no way around this unless GM is willing to take a back seat to the competition. I don't think that will happen. With the base GT-R out there as a price comp, I think GM can justify a price increase for the C7.
Personally, I believe the corvette team targeted the GT-R when setting a goal for hp output and tech features of the base C7. Current 2013 GTR makes 545hp. It will be a huge dissapointment, at least for me, if the C7 does not at least match the C6 ZO6 in hp output.
Personally, I believe the corvette team targeted the GT-R when setting a goal for hp output and tech features of the base C7. Current 2013 GTR makes 545hp. It will be a huge dissapointment, at least for me, if the C7 does not at least match the C6 ZO6 in hp output.
08-19-2012, 04:30 PM
#52
I think many of you will be disappointed if you expect a Base C7 to out perform or have more power than a C6 Z06. I'm not convinced the Base C7 will even be quicker than a GS. I believe there will be a Z51 package that will be more competitive, but I believe that will be the GS competitor.
I think the C6Z and ZR1 will be outdone by the future, unspied, high performance model.
1.) No, the Base or Z51 C6 did not outperform a C5 Z06. It wasn't until the LS3 Z51 when it became quicker in acceleration and the C6 GS until it was a better handler too.
This test compares the 2005 Z51 to a C5Z.
2.) The LS2 C6 made almost as much power as a LS6 C5Z with the help of added displacement. Yes, there will be some upgraded tech (Direct Injection specifically), but I think it will be difficult for the C7 motor to exceed the power of the LS7 with less displacement, which seems all but confirmed.
The LS7 was quite a mechanical master piece (at one time, the most powerful production naturally aspirated V8 and powerful motor from GM) and was very expensive to develop and make. Getting it to rev to 7k took some serious work and hardware and titanium connecting rods and valves aren't cheap. I have doubts the next gen base motor will go as far as the LS7 did.
Having a smaller displacement motor puts this new motor at a disadvantage and outside of putting a blower on it or an unexpected change like DOHC, I think it'll have a hard time exceeding the LS7's output. I think best case scenario, you'd match it or get close.
That said, I don't think the motor needs as much power to be competitive. I think the 7spd will help narrow the performance gap even on a less powerful motor.
3.) I do not believe the Base C7 will even bother trying to compare itself to a GT-R. The GT-R is 2x the price of a Base C6 today. If it were to compete, costs would undoubtably go up and out of many people's price range. Not everyone interested in a Corvette needs to have 500+ HP, for some its about image and owning a 'fun car'.
The Z06 and ZR1 are the cars intended to compete with the GTR and they're much more expensive. I believe you'll find your C7 GTR fighter in a few years but it won't be the Base C7.
I think the C6Z and ZR1 will be outdone by the future, unspied, high performance model.
1.) No, the Base or Z51 C6 did not outperform a C5 Z06. It wasn't until the LS3 Z51 when it became quicker in acceleration and the C6 GS until it was a better handler too.
This test compares the 2005 Z51 to a C5Z.
2.) The LS2 C6 made almost as much power as a LS6 C5Z with the help of added displacement. Yes, there will be some upgraded tech (Direct Injection specifically), but I think it will be difficult for the C7 motor to exceed the power of the LS7 with less displacement, which seems all but confirmed.
The LS7 was quite a mechanical master piece (at one time, the most powerful production naturally aspirated V8 and powerful motor from GM) and was very expensive to develop and make. Getting it to rev to 7k took some serious work and hardware and titanium connecting rods and valves aren't cheap. I have doubts the next gen base motor will go as far as the LS7 did.
Having a smaller displacement motor puts this new motor at a disadvantage and outside of putting a blower on it or an unexpected change like DOHC, I think it'll have a hard time exceeding the LS7's output. I think best case scenario, you'd match it or get close.
That said, I don't think the motor needs as much power to be competitive. I think the 7spd will help narrow the performance gap even on a less powerful motor.
3.) I do not believe the Base C7 will even bother trying to compare itself to a GT-R. The GT-R is 2x the price of a Base C6 today. If it were to compete, costs would undoubtably go up and out of many people's price range. Not everyone interested in a Corvette needs to have 500+ HP, for some its about image and owning a 'fun car'.
The Z06 and ZR1 are the cars intended to compete with the GTR and they're much more expensive. I believe you'll find your C7 GTR fighter in a few years but it won't be the Base C7.
Last edited by Jawnathin; 08-19-2012 at 04:34 PM.
08-19-2012, 04:32 PM
#53
Just an opinion, nothing more.
08-19-2012, 05:11 PM
#54
Drifting
The funniest part of that article was the Corvette not being "family friendly". Seriously?????? Jeez, I always thought the Corvette was supposed to be a SPORTS CAR. 
08-19-2012, 05:14 PM
#55
Team Owner
Some people shouldn't be allowed to create threads...
08-19-2012, 05:17 PM
#57
Team Owner
Consider the base price of a Nissan GT-R nowadays...about $90k. With all the talked about tech and quality improvements, you have to expect a price increase for the C7. There is no way around this unless GM is willing to take a back seat to the competition. I don't think that will happen. With the base GT-R out there as a price comp, I think GM can justify a price increase for the C7.
Personally, I believe the corvette team targeted the GT-R when setting a goal for hp output and tech features of the base C7. Current 2013 GTR makes 545hp. It will be a huge dissapointment, at least for me, if the C7 does not at least match the C6 ZO6 in hp output.
Personally, I believe the corvette team targeted the GT-R when setting a goal for hp output and tech features of the base C7. Current 2013 GTR makes 545hp. It will be a huge dissapointment, at least for me, if the C7 does not at least match the C6 ZO6 in hp output.
08-19-2012, 05:25 PM
#58
I think many of you will be disappointed if you expect a Base C7 to out perform or have more power than a C6 Z06. I'm not convinced the Base C7 will even be quicker than a GS. I believe there will be a Z51 package that will be more competitive, but I believe that will be the GS competitor.
I think the C6Z and ZR1 will be outdone by the future, unspied, high performance model.
1.) No, the Base or Z51 C6 did not outperform a C5 Z06. It wasn't until the LS3 Z51 when it became quicker in acceleration and the C6 GS until it was a better handler too.
This test compares the 2005 Z51 to a C5Z.
2.) The LS2 C6 made almost as much power as a LS6 C5Z with the help of added displacement. Yes, there will be some upgraded tech (Direct Injection specifically), but I think it will be difficult for the C7 motor to exceed the power of the LS7 with less displacement, which seems all but confirmed.
The LS7 was quite a mechanical master piece (at one time, the most powerful production naturally aspirated V8 and powerful motor from GM) and was very expensive to develop and make. Getting it to rev to 7k took some serious work and hardware and titanium connecting rods and valves aren't cheap. I have doubts the next gen base motor will go as far as the LS7 did.
Having a smaller displacement motor puts this new motor at a disadvantage and outside of putting a blower on it or an unexpected change like DOHC, I think it'll have a hard time exceeding the LS7's output. I think best case scenario, you'd match it or get close.
That said, I don't think the motor needs as much power to be competitive. I think the 7spd will help narrow the performance gap even on a less powerful motor.
3.) I do not believe the Base C7 will even bother trying to compare itself to a GT-R. The GT-R is 2x the price of a Base C6 today. If it were to compete, costs would undoubtably go up and out of many people's price range. Not everyone interested in a Corvette needs to have 500+ HP, for some its about image and owning a 'fun car'.
The Z06 and ZR1 are the cars intended to compete with the GTR and they're much more expensive. I believe you'll find your C7 GTR fighter in a few years but it won't be the Base C7.
I think the C6Z and ZR1 will be outdone by the future, unspied, high performance model.
1.) No, the Base or Z51 C6 did not outperform a C5 Z06. It wasn't until the LS3 Z51 when it became quicker in acceleration and the C6 GS until it was a better handler too.
This test compares the 2005 Z51 to a C5Z.
2.) The LS2 C6 made almost as much power as a LS6 C5Z with the help of added displacement. Yes, there will be some upgraded tech (Direct Injection specifically), but I think it will be difficult for the C7 motor to exceed the power of the LS7 with less displacement, which seems all but confirmed.
The LS7 was quite a mechanical master piece (at one time, the most powerful production naturally aspirated V8 and powerful motor from GM) and was very expensive to develop and make. Getting it to rev to 7k took some serious work and hardware and titanium connecting rods and valves aren't cheap. I have doubts the next gen base motor will go as far as the LS7 did.
Having a smaller displacement motor puts this new motor at a disadvantage and outside of putting a blower on it or an unexpected change like DOHC, I think it'll have a hard time exceeding the LS7's output. I think best case scenario, you'd match it or get close.
That said, I don't think the motor needs as much power to be competitive. I think the 7spd will help narrow the performance gap even on a less powerful motor.
3.) I do not believe the Base C7 will even bother trying to compare itself to a GT-R. The GT-R is 2x the price of a Base C6 today. If it were to compete, costs would undoubtably go up and out of many people's price range. Not everyone interested in a Corvette needs to have 500+ HP, for some its about image and owning a 'fun car'.
The Z06 and ZR1 are the cars intended to compete with the GTR and they're much more expensive. I believe you'll find your C7 GTR fighter in a few years but it won't be the Base C7.
(except I think/hope the base C7 will perform better than the GS by way of weight reduction and likely a power bump [still expecting/hoping for the 6.2L Gen V with DI])Look at the volumes of the GT-R. If Corvette goes for that model there will not be a Corvette in three years. Corvette is a "volume" sports car. They look to sell 30,000 plus cars a year. Straying from that target would be a huge mistake as the car has thrived by being affordable to even moderate income folks. Many Corvettes are bought by 50+ year olds who's kids have left the nest and they have disposable income to buy a car they have dreamed about for many years. $100,000 is not a "mid life crisis" reality.
Last edited by CPhelps; 08-19-2012 at 05:29 PM.
08-19-2012, 05:31 PM
#59
Melting Slicks
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Look at the volumes of the GT-R. If Corvette goes for that model there will not be a Corvette in three years. Corvette is a "volume" sports car. They look to sell 30,000 plus cars a year. Straying from that target would be a huge mistake as the car has thrived by being affordable to even moderate income folks. Many Corvettes are bought by 50+ year olds who's kids have left the nest and they have disposable income to buy a car they have dreamed about for many years. $100,000 is not a "mid life crisis" reality.
08-19-2012, 05:40 PM
#60
As a matter of fact, lets just see what GM thinks the Base C6 competes with...
http://www.chevrolet.com/tools/compa...odel&year=2013
No GTR there...
The Z cars are the super car fighters.
Z06 - http://www.chevrolet.com/tools/compa...odel&year=2013
ZR1 - http://www.chevrolet.com/tools/compa...odel&year=2013