If GM holds back on power, will we hold back on buying?
09-13-2012, 05:00 PM
#21
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
So, why don't you answer my original question? How much more would 69 horsepower in the C6 cost over the base 430/436 HP. I gave you an engine(LS7) that meets the horsepower requirement of my question. Tell me what the base price of a C6 would be with that engine as standard equippment.
It's a safe bet that there will be more powerful C7s than the base model. But is it a safe bet that everything but a 430hp C7 will be priced out of reach? Lots of engine options, that's unrealistic, but one optional engine? Perhaps one to be shared with the next-generation (and also lighter-weight) CTS-V?
.Jinx
09-13-2012, 05:14 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
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I don't think GM will **** off the current Z06 owners by offering a 500 HP base vette. But they need to. Current car 436, so it wouldn't take much to get to 500. There are a lot of cars with 600+ HP. And some (Ferrari, AMG) didnt like being in the 600 HP club with mustangs and vettes so they upped their game to 700+HP.
A 500HP vette with a 7 or 8 speed DCT. Is not that hard to do in this day and age. I would be a little turned off by 470 or 480HP with clunkly old 6 speed.
We all read the road and track article about the ZR1, 458, McLaren. Ferrari got 570HP out of a 4.4litre. Naturally aspirated, no turbos, superchargers. Seems like GM could get 500 550 600 out of a 6.2 litre. Direct injection, increase compression ratio, nikasel coatings, etc.
Hell I saw the new dodge dart has a DCT.
A 500HP vette with a 7 or 8 speed DCT. Is not that hard to do in this day and age. I would be a little turned off by 470 or 480HP with clunkly old 6 speed.
We all read the road and track article about the ZR1, 458, McLaren. Ferrari got 570HP out of a 4.4litre. Naturally aspirated, no turbos, superchargers. Seems like GM could get 500 550 600 out of a 6.2 litre. Direct injection, increase compression ratio, nikasel coatings, etc.
Hell I saw the new dodge dart has a DCT.
09-13-2012, 05:29 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
09-13-2012, 05:34 PM
#24
Successful Plumber
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I don't buy a car for the horsepower number. To me that's just nuts.
My 300 hp C4 was damn quick and fun on the racetrack. I ran fine with M3s and Porsches.
My 350 hp C5 was even quicker. My track time was limited in that car but it had plenty for a car that felt as big as it did.
At 430 hp my C6 has more than I've been able to use on the street. I appreciate the torque much more than the hp.
The C7 could tip in at 400 base and I'd be fine with it.
My 300 hp C4 was damn quick and fun on the racetrack. I ran fine with M3s and Porsches.
My 350 hp C5 was even quicker. My track time was limited in that car but it had plenty for a car that felt as big as it did.
At 430 hp my C6 has more than I've been able to use on the street. I appreciate the torque much more than the hp.
The C7 could tip in at 400 base and I'd be fine with it.
09-13-2012, 05:42 PM
#25
Melting Slicks
I think a minimal horsepower rating is silly. If the car does not receive a significant increase in horsepower, or an increase at all, that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Just as the OP points out, there are many aspects of performance that could potentially be improved.
I fully expect the C7 to have more power than the C6. But if there is a chance that it will not, I reserve my judgement until the car is revealed and properly tested.
I fully expect the C7 to have more power than the C6. But if there is a chance that it will not, I reserve my judgement until the car is revealed and properly tested.
09-13-2012, 05:48 PM
#26
Le Mans Master
Bucky, you hit the nail on the head. 
Some of the newly self-appointed business and bench racing 'experts' don't understand what a sports car is all about, just where the Corvette fits in near the top of the available sports car world, and just how much performance is available in the C6. The car's current capabilities certainly exceeds most of their driving skills.
I'm sure I'll get pasted again for MY OPINION by PM. Oh well!
09-13-2012, 06:02 PM
#27
Race Director
whats the big deal with a C7. Its going to look like most other stuff on the road today.
After intro, than will be hoo hum, what is the C8 going to look like
Take it or Caddy to a place like this and have something custom made
http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/...m_medium=email
After intro, than will be hoo hum, what is the C8 going to look like
Take it or Caddy to a place like this and have something custom made
http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/...m_medium=email
09-13-2012, 06:06 PM
#28
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I'm still happy with my 400hp 2005. Sometimes giddy, even.
But a 430hp 2014 makes me think more is coming soon, and not just in an $80K-plus track monster.
Put it this way, if the 2014 is a 5.4L 430hp LT1, and there were credible reports of a 6L 480hp LT4 option for 2015, wouldn't a lot of people wait to see how that spec'd out?
But a 430hp 2014 makes me think more is coming soon, and not just in an $80K-plus track monster.
Put it this way, if the 2014 is a 5.4L 430hp LT1, and there were credible reports of a 6L 480hp LT4 option for 2015, wouldn't a lot of people wait to see how that spec'd out?
09-13-2012, 06:52 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
I needz more power...
If it's sub 450, it better be on a significant diet.
Similar weight to the current car and anything under 500 will make me wait a bit.
As always, final judgement will come when the whole package is revealed. Until then, it's all just for fun.
If it's sub 450, it better be on a significant diet.
Similar weight to the current car and anything under 500 will make me wait a bit.
As always, final judgement will come when the whole package is revealed. Until then, it's all just for fun.
09-13-2012, 07:23 PM
#30
I'm still happy with my 400hp 2005. Sometimes giddy, even.
But a 430hp 2014 makes me think more is coming soon, and not just in an $80K-plus track monster.
Put it this way, if the 2014 is a 5.4L 430hp LT1, and there were credible reports of a 6L 480hp LT4 option for 2015, wouldn't a lot of people wait to see how that spec'd out?
But a 430hp 2014 makes me think more is coming soon, and not just in an $80K-plus track monster.
Put it this way, if the 2014 is a 5.4L 430hp LT1, and there were credible reports of a 6L 480hp LT4 option for 2015, wouldn't a lot of people wait to see how that spec'd out?
...but it's like any arms race, GM's gotta ratchet it up enough to get people's attention in SOME way. Whether it is HP, torque, 0-60 figures, track times vs a known car, SOMETHING has to impress the press/masses or it will be seen as a disappointment...especially if it is a bit of a dog design-wise.
It is a Corvette, after all!
09-13-2012, 08:01 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
With that statement, you and others should learn to drive their C6, see what it will actually do, then you just won't care what other people think.
You will have a grin from ear-to-ear and just love what your car can do.
Here is a bargain two day event being offered by Bondurant.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...for-250-a.html
Anybody attending will have a better appreciation of just how good the current Corvette is, and will be a much better driver of a high performance sports car besides. You'll also appreciate the fact that an incremental increase desired in the C7 in everyday performance just doesn't matter that much!
Except to a bench racer.
09-13-2012, 08:34 PM
#32
You totally missed the point. I was talking about the trade press and selling to newer audiences. They are the ones who need to be impressed vs other competition...because it is a Corvette!
09-13-2012, 08:48 PM
#33
Very good point, Joe. Add to the EPA+CARB emissions certification cost of each separate engine the associated warranty and recall risk-cost.
Last edited by 235265283...; 09-13-2012 at 08:51 PM.
09-13-2012, 08:54 PM
#34
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
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I'm one of those that will wait to see the higher performance variant.
That said, with regard to .Jinx's original question regarding the base model, I think it depends.
It depends on the weight of the car and it's overall balance. For example, the C3 ZR-1 didn't have the most powerful engine in the C3 lineup, but it was regarded as a better overall sports car because it had a better overall balance.
If the base C7 has a good mix of weight, balance, feedback, power, improved interior and is constructed well. . . it'll do just fine.
Of course it'll have to also look good - but that is not germane to the question at hand.
That said, with regard to .Jinx's original question regarding the base model, I think it depends.
It depends on the weight of the car and it's overall balance. For example, the C3 ZR-1 didn't have the most powerful engine in the C3 lineup, but it was regarded as a better overall sports car because it had a better overall balance.
If the base C7 has a good mix of weight, balance, feedback, power, improved interior and is constructed well. . . it'll do just fine.
Of course it'll have to also look good - but that is not germane to the question at hand.
09-13-2012, 10:08 PM
#35
Le Mans Master
The trade press recognizes the Corvette as an awesome car, after you sift through their fluff of a "poor" interior. The car stomps its competition, and if intelligent readers of magazines don't grasp that, **** 'em. Let them settle for another car.
GM can NEVER satisfy 'bench' racers either, nor should they try to. Again, just my opinion.
I'll still recommend you and other doomsayers attend the Bondurant two day session. It's a bargain at $250, and will produce positive results for the student.
09-13-2012, 10:26 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I don't think anybody's gotten my point, really. It's not about "enough" horsepower relative to the competition or even to the outgoing C6, so much as a scenario where the engine produces less power than we all think is easily achievable given the configuration.
Tell me you won't be disappointed in GM Powertrain if the direct-injected 6.2L V8 isn't more powerful than the LS3. Other implementations of direct injection improve both power and fuel efficiency. Why not theirs? Wouldn't it seem hinky? Pulling their punch? Saving some for a follow-up? No? Just me, then. Okay.
Tell me you won't be disappointed in GM Powertrain if the direct-injected 6.2L V8 isn't more powerful than the LS3. Other implementations of direct injection improve both power and fuel efficiency. Why not theirs? Wouldn't it seem hinky? Pulling their punch? Saving some for a follow-up? No? Just me, then. Okay.
09-13-2012, 10:35 PM
#37
The Consigliere
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I don't think anybody's gotten my point, really. It's not about "enough" horsepower relative to the competition or even to the outgoing C6, so much as a scenario where the engine produces less power than we all think is easily achievable given the configuration.
Tell me you won't be disappointed in GM Powertrain if the direct-injected 6.2L V8 isn't more powerful than the LS3. Other implementations of direct injection improve both power and fuel efficiency. Why not theirs? Wouldn't it seem hinky? Pulling their punch? Saving some for a follow-up? No? Just me, then. Okay.
Tell me you won't be disappointed in GM Powertrain if the direct-injected 6.2L V8 isn't more powerful than the LS3. Other implementations of direct injection improve both power and fuel efficiency. Why not theirs? Wouldn't it seem hinky? Pulling their punch? Saving some for a follow-up? No? Just me, then. Okay.
Equal displacement with DI should yield more power quite easily. If smaller displacement is utilized, I would still expect equal or slightly higher hp than the current LS3.
09-13-2012, 10:43 PM
#38
Melting Slicks
I am continuously impressed with the direct injection 4 cylinder in my sister's 2010 Equinox. It isn't a particularly powerful vehicle, but is rather torquey and can really scoot. That is partially credited to the excellent transmission, but it also manages 32 and 33mpg on the highway. Direct injection works magic. I am excited to see how Chevrolet have been able to implement the same sort of technology in a good ole American V8.
09-13-2012, 10:59 PM
#39
Racer
09-13-2012, 11:18 PM
#40
Racer
it all depends to me on what the transmission is like and the gearing of it how many gears and the rear end. IF it was an 8-speed DCT, with a 3.37 ratio with 430HP that thing would rip. But honestly yes i would like to see more power 
.
I feel like chevy needs to distinguish there models with more options. have 4-5 different engine choices the old 5.3 for people that want a v8 but don't go fast, 5.7,6.2 something like that. Whenever i see a BMW or MBZ and notice all the different packages they come with it really makes it more fun for the buyer. You can buy a 328i or a 335i or an M3, or a 335i diesel, and it really produces an enormous amount of sales. I would never say slap a v6 in the c7 just a really economical base 5.3 standard truck engine would be fine. They could market that to the young as they are trying to focus there "Target market" on.
For us adults, raise the price a little give us a badass engine with 2 or 3 choices not including the z06. And the z06 shouldn't be just more power but more everything as it has been in the past. Thats what i would love to see. Just like in the old days options options options!!!
.I feel like chevy needs to distinguish there models with more options. have 4-5 different engine choices the old 5.3 for people that want a v8 but don't go fast, 5.7,6.2 something like that. Whenever i see a BMW or MBZ and notice all the different packages they come with it really makes it more fun for the buyer. You can buy a 328i or a 335i or an M3, or a 335i diesel, and it really produces an enormous amount of sales. I would never say slap a v6 in the c7 just a really economical base 5.3 standard truck engine would be fine. They could market that to the young as they are trying to focus there "Target market" on.
For us adults, raise the price a little give us a badass engine with 2 or 3 choices not including the z06. And the z06 shouldn't be just more power but more everything as it has been in the past. Thats what i would love to see. Just like in the old days options options options!!!
Great Points.