Direct Injection Technology
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 26
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From: Suitland Md.
Aftermaket Direct Injection Technology
Does anybody see this technology available to the masses in the near future? I understand it's new for the corvette but not so for some other gm makes.
Will this eventually make its way to the aftermarket segment and become a game changer for us power thursty enthusiast? What parts other than changing the heads and fuel delivery components will be needed, along with the cost factor, making it a possible must have?
Will this eventually make its way to the aftermarket segment and become a game changer for us power thursty enthusiast? What parts other than changing the heads and fuel delivery components will be needed, along with the cost factor, making it a possible must have?
Last edited by dabmeister; Jan 6, 2013 at 12:17 PM. Reason: Re-do Title
Racer
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 346
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From: Espoo, Finland
On serious note. DFI is very much today's technology and mass production of automobiles using this technology started in 1996. Ferrari adopted technology 2009 which is late that it had already been 15 years in cars costing tenth of the Ferrari California.
I see no reason why you put this to car that does no have it because it is very expensive way to try to increase power.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,168
Likes: 2
From: Saint Johns Florida
Does anybody see this technology available to the masses in the near future? I understand it's new for the corvette but not so for some other gm makes.
Will this eventually make its way to the aftermarket segment and become a game changer for us power thursty enthusiast? What parts other than changing the heads and fuel delivery components will be needed, along with the cost factor, making it a possible must have?
Will this eventually make its way to the aftermarket segment and become a game changer for us power thursty enthusiast? What parts other than changing the heads and fuel delivery components will be needed, along with the cost factor, making it a possible must have?
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 15,195
Likes: 0
From: Philadelphia PA
Does anybody see this technology available to the masses in the near future? I understand it's new for the corvette but not so for some other gm makes.
Will this eventually make its way to the aftermarket segment and become a game changer for us power thursty enthusiast? What parts other than changing the heads and fuel delivery components will be needed, along with the cost factor, making it a possible must have?
Will this eventually make its way to the aftermarket segment and become a game changer for us power thursty enthusiast? What parts other than changing the heads and fuel delivery components will be needed, along with the cost factor, making it a possible must have?
Not sure it will make it to the aftermarket enthusiast. There needs to be some major changes in the engine/heads as compression ratio is higher and fuel pressure is also much higher then a traditional injector system.
If it does become available it will be expensive very expensive. Possibly 10 years down the road it might be 'cheap' or 'affordable'.
FYI some car makers have been using DI tech since 04 in their cars.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,752
Likes: 190
From: Indiana PA
It may eventually come into the aftermarket, however, its is complex and VERY costly. As noted the block, heads,etc...all have to be setup for it.
Injectors, low pressure pump, cam driven high pressure pump (typically), hard lines,etc...all are needed.
You an run much higher compression ratios and get stellar air/fuel mixtures.
I don't see it taking off because of cost constraints in the aftermarket.
Most OEM application are more focus on fuel economy and emissions. Nissan for example has a 1.6 Turbo DI in the Juke. Makes 188HP stock. However, there is a lot of untapped potential in the engine, but the compression ratio is quite low at 9.5 to 1. Tune conservatively so it lives, gives good gas mileage, good drive-ability, and emissions.
Even the new LT1 is WAY lower than it should be. To me 11.5:1 is a joke. If you can run 11:1 in a LS7 with port injection. A DI on PREMIUM should be able to run 13:1+ no issue. GM kept it low so idiots can run 87 in the thing and not kill it. Waste of technology, IMHO. Granted they have MANY factors to consider, but the potential is there. They should use it.
If the aftermarket is going to do DI, its going to hack PCM's and tune it to work better for POWER over OEM concerns. All of this is IMO.
Injectors, low pressure pump, cam driven high pressure pump (typically), hard lines,etc...all are needed.
You an run much higher compression ratios and get stellar air/fuel mixtures.
I don't see it taking off because of cost constraints in the aftermarket.
Most OEM application are more focus on fuel economy and emissions. Nissan for example has a 1.6 Turbo DI in the Juke. Makes 188HP stock. However, there is a lot of untapped potential in the engine, but the compression ratio is quite low at 9.5 to 1. Tune conservatively so it lives, gives good gas mileage, good drive-ability, and emissions.
Even the new LT1 is WAY lower than it should be. To me 11.5:1 is a joke. If you can run 11:1 in a LS7 with port injection. A DI on PREMIUM should be able to run 13:1+ no issue. GM kept it low so idiots can run 87 in the thing and not kill it. Waste of technology, IMHO. Granted they have MANY factors to consider, but the potential is there. They should use it.
If the aftermarket is going to do DI, its going to hack PCM's and tune it to work better for POWER over OEM concerns. All of this is IMO.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2011
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From: Saint Johns Florida
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2010
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From: Louisa, Ky
Fuel pressure is the most difficult thing I see, GM uses tri lobe on the cam for hydraulic mechanical assistance. Stand alone pumps would be startermotor size driven positive displacement units to make lots of pressure
Le Mans Master
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Burning Brakes
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Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Fort Worth TX
hell my 2012 Kia Rio has direct injection - but yeah, I don't really see it ever being so "cheap and easy" that you can add it to any car.
The whole thing has to be designed for DI to work properly, block, injectors, maps, all that jazz.
I'm pretty happy with the 1.6 putting out 138HP and giving me between 35 and 38MPG.
The whole thing has to be designed for DI to work properly, block, injectors, maps, all that jazz.
I'm pretty happy with the 1.6 putting out 138HP and giving me between 35 and 38MPG.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 473
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From: Downers Grove Illinois
Does anybody see this technology available to the masses in the near future? I understand it's new for the corvette but not so for some other gm makes.
Will this eventually make its way to the aftermarket segment and become a game changer for us power thursty enthusiast? What parts other than changing the heads and fuel delivery components will be needed, along with the cost factor, making it a possible must have?
Will this eventually make its way to the aftermarket segment and become a game changer for us power thursty enthusiast? What parts other than changing the heads and fuel delivery components will be needed, along with the cost factor, making it a possible must have?
Last edited by Jet Streaming; Jan 6, 2013 at 04:43 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2007
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From: In the woods so F%^$ O&&
St. Jude Donor '17-'18-'19
There are a lot of carbon problems due to early adopters of DI. My DD is one of them. With no fuel in the intake track and then the compounding problem with our emissions systems (PCV) it has led to a lot of issues. My car needs to have a carbon cleaning every 15000 miles to keep it from throwing a code. I can do it myself but Audi will charge about $1500-2000 for this service.
Last edited by Z06PSI; Jan 6, 2013 at 04:54 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,775
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From: Arma Ks
Like someone said gm has used it for a few years. As for v8, Ford doesn't have it yet. Just their smaller stuff. I wish they would've made it more compression
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Philadelphia PA
Found an article on why.
The strategy—instead optimizing the new Ti-VCT system and emphasizing breathing—paid off. Having the extra leeway with breathing allowed both engines to put out more power and torque than rival direct-injection engines, while the variable valvetrain boosts efficiency with low load. The new Ford Duratec 37 produces 305 horsepower and 280 pound-feet, while GM's 3.6-liter direct-injected V-6 makes 280 to 304 hp, and 266 to 273 lb-ft, depending on the application.
Fuel economy, too, is a strong point, with the V-6 expected to yield up to 30 mpg on the highway in the 2011 Ford Mustang and up to 25 mpg on the highway in the 2011 Lincoln MKX (and anticipated for the 2011 Ford Edge). GM's direct-injected V-6 achieves 18/29, at best, in the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro and up to 17/24 mpg in the (admittedly larger) Buick Enclave.
Link to article
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2011
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From: Saint Johns Florida
Mitsubishi 1996
Nissan 1997
Toyota 1998
Renault 1999
VW 2000
Alfa Romeo 2002
Ford, GM, and BMW 2003
Isuzu 2004
Mazda 2005
Ferrari 2009
Kia, 2010
Hyundai 2011
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Philadelphia PA
no... the Duratec 37 is 3.7L in displacement. It has no correlation to the 4.6 N/A V8 modular from ford was quite dated in 2010 (time of the article).