The Viper was cheap? You call 100k cheap? You obviously have no respect for the Viper and its accomplishments, I think the GT2RS is an amazing car but your statement is hollow! If the Viper was as much as an RS it wouldn't be the same car, just like a ZR1.

 

GM has yet to submit the latest ZR1 on Cup tires for independent testing at the Nurburgring. Last time they submitted one for testing against the GT2 RS, it was the 0-300-0 shootout at Papenburg, where the RS finished in 35.2s. That is 7s faster than the ZR1 that day. The RS finished before the ZR1 could hit 300 kph.

 

I haven't tried a current year V6 (I only tried one right after the '05s first came out), but I can guess what he's talking about too. I'm wondering if being underdamped is byproduct of that rear suspension. It isn't just the absolute lack of independent motion control that's the problem (although that should be a big one), it could be the sheer mass of the differential assembly. That's a lot of unsprung weight that's oscillating. And Randy's impression came purely from the racetrack; out on a road that isn't so well-maintained, it's going to be a different story.

Why should I be anymore respectful with johnglenn being so disrespectful to Porsche? By "cheap," I meant with respect to the GT2 RS. It was cheap in many other ways too, but not too many Viper fans will accept that, even as they coo and purr over the new Viper's interior. And you don't know anything about me. I have more respect than you could imagine.

 

Those two videos illustrate the benefit of rear weight bias.

 

@ Guibo, your post #499 shows no respect to the Viper, I talking about what you said not what the astronaut said! Don't take it personally, it has nothing to do with me knowing you it's just a response to what you said. And btw, I've owned an ACR and the interior was crap, the fit and finish above mediocre but it was one bad *** **** on the track and anyone who has driven one knows that! Have you had the pleasure of tracking an ACR?

 

But post #499 was a direct response to the astronaut! And it was not meant to be disrespectful to owners. I merely laid out the facts, some of which you are agreeing to. You can try to take issue with my tone all you want, but that's no dispute against the subject matter (topics) I posted.
No, I've not tracked an ACR.

 

BTW Guibo I should have mentioned I owned a 2008 GT3 and a 2011 GT3RS, best engineered cars I've ever driven as well as fit and finish. I love Porsche products, they are as precise a driving car as there is! I get flustered on here when people bash the Viper, mostly in the ZR1 section!

 

Good communication of chassis and steering helps too.

I'm only bashing johnglenn's contention that Porsche is so "worried" about lap times of competitors.

 

Agreed.

 

I'd say the Benz SLK is the closest competitor.

In terms of price it's the SLK350 that's the competitor, and in terms of performance it's the AMG SLK.

 

The Germans are great at what they do, and the GT2RS is faster then the ZR1. I brought it up because the plain Jane GT2 wasn't faster:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...r/viewall.html

 

How else do you measure, and compare cars?

Anyway, they were only supposed to be making 500 GT2RS in 2010, and I found a 2012 for sale (still with EFI)?:

http://autos.yahoo.com/porsche/911-g...fications.html

Did they not sell them all, or did they just change their minds?

 

We will see how much Porsche cares when the Z51 gets the title at The Ring over the 911S!

 

What makes you think Porsche really cared that the plain Jane GT2 wasn't faster? Think about it from Porsche's perspective: At end of plain Jaine GT2 development, they already had a modified one that was even faster. Yet they did not release it. Why put all of your cards on the table when you don't have to? It's a very simple business plan: Put out the product you have today (which is by no means totally maxxed out), get those sales ($), and when business falls off (as it does), introduce a "new and improved" model that keeps interest going until the next model cycle. Now, the money pours in again. It's simple. And it's not by any means limited to Porsche.

Yes, I remember that test. At the time, Motor Trend published it with the headliner-grabbers "America beats the world!" or something to that effect, and bragged loudly in video after video about the ZR1 demolishing the "competition." Yet tucked away in another issue (and online) was this report that explains why people with the $$$ and who couldn't care less about lap times they themselves will never experience, could choose the Ferrari:
"If there's anywhere the ZR1 comes up short, it's in style. While the 599 GTB is about as low-profile as Heidi Klum in a Saran Wrap jogging suit, the ZR1 melts into a sea of Corvette familiarity. Sure, there's that clear polycarbonate hood insert showing off a peek of engine, plus a few ZR1 badges if you look close, but there's nothing that screams "ultracar." We've seen this car before, right?It's worse inside. Though our ZR1 tester came with the optional 3ZR package, adding leather dash inserts and other dress-up, it still looked and felt like a regular Corvette. And it smelled bad-glue and plastic being the dominating aromas, versus leather and the money of San Remo in the Ferrari. Given that it goes out the door at nearly $120K all-up, the ZR1 simply needs a more elegant cockpit, something special."

Ferrari released a special edition, the GTO, that was sold out of its production run before anyone even ran performance tests on it. And when that was over, they sold another run of convertibles, the Aperta. Nobody gave a rat's *** if a Corvette, Porsche, or whatever was faster. (The perks of buying a GTO are more important to them than lap times. Things like quality of the leather and materials (no plastic masquerading as CF), the rarity, the style, the prestige of the marque, being on Ferrari's VIP list of first customers for the Enzo successor, etc.

 

Just what is it about "there is no official title" at the Ring in terms of manufacturer's test laps that you don't understand?

Porsche isn't in any lap time contest. They are concerned about testing their cars and managing their current and future lineup of cars.

 

If I'm a paying customer, I test drive them. I don't measure them; I can assure you most dealers wouldn't take kindly to you strapping VBOX or timing gear onto their demonstrators. If a car feels fast enough for me, sounds great enough, that's usually enough; I couldn't care less if the 'Ring time differs by 5s or if it's 20s. I've already discussed the parameters I look for, and you can browse any decently written comparison or set of scoring standards (if you must) to get an idea. Better yet, ask yourself a question: Why did you buy the car that you chose?
If you must compare cars, then you can consider what a particular company's goal was (benchmark), and if not driving them yourself, look to professionals who have driven them in the way that you yourself are most likely to drive. That means a proper road test comparison counts for a helluva lot more than a track-only comparison. From there, you can judge how close a company got to its benchmark.
The bottom line for any company is the sales, without which none of your vaunted 'Ring laps and mag comparos would even be possible. This is as true for the 911 against its competitors as it was for the failed BMW hatchback or the GTO against their competitors. If there is no 911 due to lagging sales, there is no lap time to compare. Simples.

Your link doesn't show a GT2 RS for sale.

 

Here's someone who's definitely familiar with winning on racetracks, with quite a different perspective on road driving than those who claim 10/10ths circuit times are very relevant to a car's "worth."

 

And there you have it. Great article.

 

Jeff Zwart's record setting run in the 2wd attack production class at Pikes Peak (shown) didn't stand up to the 2012 record by the Hyundai Genesis Coupe, and the time was also was beaten by a couple of my motorcycle track buddies, Glenn Conser the track manager at High Plains Raceway in Byers, Colorado and the assistant track manager Mike Applehans both, managed faster times on two wheels than Zwart did in his record setting GT2-RS, although true as you say, neither was doing it with full stereo, A/C and navigation, not that they cared. Just sayin...

Good to see the Pikes Peak Hill Climb, America's second oldest race getting the world press it deserves, just man versus the clock, and of course, a very unforgiving road.

Check out Jeremy Foley's crash, below...(adult language warning).

 

^Pretty bad crash. The guys taping it seem pretty nonchalant, LOL.

That Genesis Coupe was modified to a much greater extent and was in no way road legal (not with that splitter, pure slick tires). Forget about A/C, stereo, and nav. That car didn't even have anything resembling a normal dashboard. It did, however, sport a rear wing that would make an ACR blush, but my point was the Porsche was driven to the event. I'm guessing the Hyundai would show the ACR a thing or two on the Nordschleife (maybe even some of the full blown VLN racecars which pack about 100 less hp), but I was talking about mostly stock street legal cars.