Wow is all I can say......

 

Porsche hadn't had anything that was faster! Ever!

Their current platform at that time wasn't up to it so they boosted and lightened the crap out of one!

Porsche makes fast cars because they care about that!

 

Why didn't they just stay with those lesser iterations of the GT2?

 

You wrote they all were sold right away in 2010? That add I posted shows a 2012 of a model that only sold 500 that you said all sold right away?

 

What's so uneducated? Is not the Mustang GT in that test, which only tied the M3, not a 5.0L? Is not the 1LE, now hailed as the new savior, a 6.2L V8, now with even fatter, grippier rubber (285mm F1 Supercar G:2)?

No wonder the 1LE is so relatively cheap. They forgot to design/equip the back half of the car.


BMW didn't cheap out on the design, equipment, nor materials.



Split folding rear seat with dedicated ski/snowboard pass-thru:
http://www.reveuro.com/inventory/102...-m3-bmw.49.JPG

Don't want them in the car? Fine. Put them on the roof, which is pre-assembled with rack attachments:
http://media.caranddriver.com/images...s-1280x782.jpg

Optional sliding trunk tray:


You will probably say "Why would you ever need that in a track car?"
The M3 is not a track car. First and foremost, like other BMWs, it is a road car. And as good premium marques go, it caters to the whim of the owner with certain details you won't find on non-premium marques; some items you won't find even on other premium marques. It's a holistic approach to car building, so to assume that BMW tried to fit their approach to something so narrow as the 1LE/GT500/Boss is absurd. They look at the entire ownership experience, from included maintenance to quality of dealership service, to the comfort of passengers, to the possibility that, yes, people use their cars for utility too (transporting skis, bikes, cargo boxes, etc). The fact that the M3 offers all of this, plus better feedback and more control at speeds than the Mustang, is why it's priced the way it is. BMW would be stupid to give all of this for free. And with willing and paying customers, why would they?

 

Already making excuses about an under powered high TECH Porsche losing out to a cheaper Vette at The Ring!

 

You can go ahead an poke holes in Gordon Murray's theory, if you'd like. I don't think you can.
Porsche sold over 25k 911s last year, with average transaction prices far exceeding the cheaper Vettes. I don't think they're losing. Corvette benchmarking the 911 suggests that they know it's not all about lap times.
Since there is no set, officially established protocol for timing 'Ring laps, how can you ascertain a "winner" or "loser?" The only independent testing with an established protocol (acceleration, braking, cornering, windtunnel, and alignment tests to weed out obvious cheaters), Sport Auto's supertest, has shown that the GT2 RS is faster than the Corvettes. GM had all last year to submit the Cup-shod cars for testing, but they didn't.

Nothing you've posted shows that they care about what the Corvette does. Why do you suppose Corvette waits to put out a lightened, more powerful Z06? Because they'd be dumb to put all of their cards on the table when they don't have to. When interest wanes and they recognize they can further amortize development costs, they put out special editions or Z06s with the ZR1's suspension. Stop pretending like you don't realize that GM are in it for the money too.

Your link doesn't a GT2 RS for sale. It shows a specification page for a USMY 2012 car. The rest of the world recognizes that it is a 2010-2011 vehicle.

 

Porsche did (with 997 GTx, Cayman, Boxster, Panamera, and 991). BMW did with the M3, Europe-only GTS, plus 1M, M5, etc. Audi did with the R8 GT, RS5, A4s. Ferrari did with the 458. Nissan did with GT-Rs. McLaren did with its MP4-12C. Lexus did with both regular and 'Ring Edition LFAs. Lamborghini did with the Aventador. Mercedes did with its C63 (even Black Series), SLS and SLK. Even very tiny manufacturers or tuners like Alpina, Gumpert, and Gemballa have. And a boutique manufacturer like Pagani (Zonda C12S and F). Many of these manufacturers never even made any 'Ring time claims for their own cars before these tests. Notice who's missing:
ACR
CTS-V
ZL1
GT500
Z06/ZR1 with Cups

 

 

the low hp coupe should compete with the 370z

not sure what the stingray is, 911 i suppose?

 

Still talking about displacement and tires and bla bla bla bla bla bla bla?? I'm confused.I thought I already told you I canNOT be assed to deal with UNeducated people?You should continue your displacement conversation with your buddies over at CRX forums.Have a nice day!

:rof l:

 

A BMW is an overpriced German car not unlike Audi and Mercedes..if it has 10% advantage in performance over an American equal it is reflected in the price. If a person wants to buy the sizzle they sell that's ok with me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

However none of the Germans except Porsche make a two seat sports car worth a darn. If you want to compare a car to Corvette at least pick one that has two seats and performs.
Go away if your trying to compare a sedan to a Corvette..it is ridiculous

IMO

 

Well said Bill although some of the banter is great entertainment!

 

Jesus..are you obtuse..

It's an updated G8. Sure, ok, the hood is different. But, it's essentially the same car.

And the reason I'm not getting into why I want a 5 series is that it is irrelevant to the original discussion, and the same goes to why you interjected a cadillac to discussion. Irrelevant.

You've whined about tires not being equivalent, yet they are both using street tires, not race tires.

Next you make the ricer argument about displacement, and how Ford has to use a supercharger on the GT500. Really? It makes 662hp. That's more than enough to destroy ANY BMW, the turbocharged M5/6 included. So what about how large the engine is, like I said, that's for the ricer crowd to whine about.

Why didn't "Ford go head to head with BMW and design a similar v8"?

Because they wanted a more powerful car with far less maintenence? Why would they design a tiny V8 that has to rev like an S2000 to make any power, inadequate torque output, require far more servicing, and be way too expensive? BMW should copy Ford, not the other way around.

 

There is nothing uneducated about what I say. Mustang/Camaro depend on huge displacement and fatter, grippier tires. That's the cheap way to lower lap times, everyone knows it. You are confused because you think BMW is going after the musclecar market.

A couple did pretty well here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...t-place-page-5

A newer version:


"What is it?
The all-new, second-generation Porsche Cayman. We’ve all seen the pre-launch press images, but until you stand next to one and appreciate the stance, proportion, detailing and all-round rightness of the design it’s hard to credit just how desirable it really is. The most powerful model (for now), the Cayman S, costs £48,783.



Technical highlights?
Extensive use of aluminium in the Cayman’s body structure means a 40 per cent increase in torsional rigidity and a decrease in kerbweight of up to 30kg, the Cayman S down to 1310kg. Engine outputs are increased, but not dramatically (up 10bhp to 271bhp in the downsized 2.7-litre Cayman and 5bhp to 321bhp in the 3.4-litre Cayman S) although both motors have more generous power curves, so they produce more power than the old engines across the rev range.
Of course being a modern high performance car these increases come despite a reduction in fuel consumption and emissions of up to 15 per cent. The Cayman S equipped with a PDK twin-clutch gearbox enjoys a CO2 rating of just 188g/km. Not bad for a 174mph sports car.



What’s it like to drive?
It’s extremely comfortable and easy to drive, with great visibility, short overhangs and a compact footprint. If you’re much over 6ft tall you’ll also be pleased to hear the new generation platform’s 60mm increase in wheelbase creates a more spacious interior than the outgoing model.
As we wind our way up into the hills the true brilliance of this car starts to shine. Both front and rear track are wider (40mm and 12mm respectively) but the overall width remains the same. Together with the longer wheelbase it ensures the Cayman feels planted to the road, thanks to brilliant lateral and longitudinal stability and an agility enhancing 46:54 weight distribution front-to-rear. Like the Boxster it has electric power-assisted steering. Both cars have a more natural feel than the 991, but I’d venture the Cayman is the best of the three. On dry roads you know exactly where you are in terms of available grip, and that confidence remains even when the road is slick with rain.
You can carry extraordinary speed across the ground, slicing through transient curves without fear of any short-tempered mid-engined twitchiness. When fully committed to a fast corner outright grip is huge, but what’s really special is that through medium and slow speed corners there’s still plenty of grip and stability to lean on, yet you can slide the car if you wish, using the Porsche Torque Vectoring and mechanical limited-slip differential to enjoyable effect. Rare is the car that has such poise and natural balance, yet allows you to adjust its attitude so readily and accessibly.
The engine and six-speed manual gearbox are sensational, the former revving its heart out while the latter’s half a dozen perfectly spaced ratios always feel ideally matched to the power and broad torque delivery of the 3.4-litre flat-six. It might be unfashionable to say so, but I’d willingly sacrifice a few tenths of a second of 0-60mph performance (5.0sec plays 4.7 for the PDK, Sport Chrono-equipped car) to have this greater sense of satisfaction. Ultimately, and perhaps for the first time in a Porsche, the choice is now made purely on personal choice, not because one is markedly better than the other. Long may that choice continue to be available.

How does it compare?
The Cayman’s price tag (this test car wound past £60,000 thanks to options) can buy everything from a BMW M3 or Lotus Evora to a lightly used Nissan GT-R, with the new Jaguar F-type and Alfa Romeo 4C set to join the sports car market in 2013 too. That this Cayman feels good enough to challenge Porsche’s more expensive 911 tells you how sensational it is.

Anything else I need to know?
We couldn’t drive one on the launch, but the 2.7-litre base model promises to be an absolute screamer, being the first Cayman to have an engine that exceeds 100bhp-per-litre specific output with an impressive 101.6bhp/litre.

Evo Rating: "

 

Nothing about Porsche wanting to build sports cars with great feedback that are also phenomenal street cars indicates in any way that they are chasing some undefined Ring record or that they are worried in any way about what any Vette's lap time is.

 

But it's NOT the same car. It would fail just as it had under Pontiac (entire lineup fail) if GM merely rebadged it. If there were a market for the car at the time, they would have tried it.
You don't want to get into why you'd pick the BMW because you'd have to openly admit on a Corvette forum that you're a secret badge snob, right?
Yeah, all street tires are the same.
You're bragging about a 662-hp car with a 5.8L engine and relatively devoid of amenities destroying a 4-door luxury sedan or luxury coupe? You've lost the plot. You sound like one of those guys who is impressed when an elephant squashes an ant, am I right?
If BMW copied Ford, and put a lazy V8 and a live axle into their cars, what exactly would be the point? Ford already has that part of the market. BMW don't need to move their M3/M5 downmarket. They already have cars in the lower range for that. Besides, if the new M5/M6 continue like the past one, they will sell around 35k units. Waaaay more than the GT500. So bragging rights vs millions in profits...BMW would be dumb to choose the later, considering their market position and the fact that 99.9% of their customers wouldn't give a sh*t about what a Mustang does.
Meanwhile, we've seen the Mustang weened of pushrods. They've adapted interior ambient lighting already seen on BMWs and Minis for years. The next one is going to IRS. Looks like Ford is going BMW's way. Not the other way around.
"Way too expensive." Based on only 4k GT500s vs 40k+ M3s, I'd say we can guess which car is too expensive for this price class. Regular maintenance is included in the M3. It uses an oil conditioned based system. You could see intervals as long as 15k miles (7.5k for the GT500) or less, depending on how you drive. Spark plugs are not that much different (37k vs 45k miles), but are included in the service. They even cover some wear and tear items other manufacturers won't (brake pads and fluids, brake discs, wiper blades, engine belts).
You don't think people dropping $150k+ for a Ford GT supercar, or $60k for a Shelby, wouldn't mind paying a bit more for maintenance?

 

Hey all you guys who love cars with back seats, worse four doors...GET OFF THE CORVETTE PAGES.. You can text each other or email each other, just stop filling up threads with lap times and number of cams, mini displacements.

THIS IS ABOUT CORVETTES.. Loud rumbling, nasty , single cam, monster displacement, big horsepower cruising, showing, styling, and yes track raced cars. Built by Americans, in America, take your whining butts someplace where somebody cares..

I guess I made my point. I am truly sorry if I offended you.

 

I bet your one of those kind of guys that starts to spit when he talks fast.

You can deny it all you want, but it doesn't change the facts that the G8 (Holden REBADGED FOR PONTIAC, NOW CHEVROLET), is the same car. Updated and a better interior, but it's the same car. Same sheet metal, for the most part. The G8's misfortune was it was introduced during a collapse of the economy, and when GM decided to kill pontiac. But, it's back, like it or not.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-c...rolet-ss-sedan

"The Chevy SS is based on the rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform that was developed by Holden, GM's Australian brand. The Zeta platform underpins several Holden vehicles, the current Chevrolet Camaro and, for all you trivia buffs out there, the Chinese-market Buick Park Avenue. The arrival of the 2014 Chevrolet SS marks something of a U.S. reunion for the car, since it originally appeared as the Pontiac G8 back in 2008. When GM axed the Pontiac division, we were robbed of this impressive Aussie performance sedan."

You keep talking about Fords as having "large, lazy V8's". 5.0L might sound large to the ricer crowd, but it's kinda small. And it's a 7000 rpm engine. Higher on the Boss, I believe.

And, I have news for you, no BMW is a "supercar". There's a reason most lease these cars, and a reason for free maintenence, coinciding with the aproximate lease durations. Fortunately, the E60 seems somewhat reliable, otherwise, I wouldn't consider it. I badly wanted an E39, but it's a joke to own one, considering how unreliable they are.

Most BMW enthusiats understand the oil change intervals are a joke and designed to get cheaply through the lease duration. Many engines, when opened up, show sludge.

BTW, the M6 and M3 are 2 doors..you're the genius that brought up comparing 4 doors.

 

[QUOTE=AirBusPilot;1583235295]I bet your one of those kind of guys that starts to spit when he talks fast.

You can deny it all you want, but it doesn't change the facts that the G8 (Holden REBADGED FOR PONTIAC, NOW CHEVROLET), is the same car. Updated and a better interior, but it's the same car. Same sheet metal, for the most part. The G8's misfortune was it was introduced during a collapse of the economy, and when GM decided to kill pontiac. But, it's back, like it or not.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-c...rolet-ss-sedan

"The Chevy SS is based on the rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform that was developed by Holden, GM's Australian brand. The Zeta platform underpins several Holden vehicles, the current Chevrolet Camaro and, for all you trivia buffs out there, the Chinese-market Buick Park Avenue. The arrival of the 2014 Chevrolet SS marks something of a U.S. reunion for the car, since it originally appeared as the Pontiac G8 back in 2008. When GM axed the Pontiac division, we were robbed of this impressive Aussie performance sedan."

You keep talking about Fords as having "large, lazy V8's". 5.0L might sound large to the ricer crowd, but it's kinda small. And it's a 7000 rpm engine. Higher on the Boss, I believe.

And, I have news for you, no BMW is a "supercar". There's a reason most lease these cars, and a reason for free maintenence, coinciding with the aproximate lease durations. Fortunately, the E60 seems somewhat reliable, otherwise, I wouldn't consider it. I badly wanted an E39, but it's a joke to own one, considering how unreliable they are.

Most BMW enthusiats understand the oil change intervals are a joke and designed to get cheaply through the lease duration. Many engines, when opened up, show sludge.


HEY.. COULD YOU AT LEAST MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO MENTION C7 OR CORVETTE. Do you know where you are?..Do not insult the members of this forum with your off topic arguments